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Emanuel
@utoronto.ca
| Voice and Internet in South Parkdale
Hello,
As part of a master's in urban planning workshop I am conducting a study of the state of the telecom infrastructure in Toronto and its South parkdale neighbourhood. Specifically I would like to confirm reports that copper lines in the area date from WWII and are quite worn, limiting level of service and dsl bandwidth. If this is the case, I'd like to know if LECs and ISPs are considering South Parkdale for line upgrades.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Emanuel | |
pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
| That's a very hard study to be accurate on. Phone lines are installed and used for many years .. many years.
The condition of the physical line plays a role in the delivery of DSL services and POTS service. There are times where the drop wire coming into the residence, the "feeder lines" on the poles, and even internal wiring is replaced over time.
You cannot lump an entire region into one statement - each line will have it's own characteristics of quality. I don't know the area well but I would believe when you say LEC's that you would be referring to Bell Canada there most likely. They will only replace/repair lines as required based on repair activity the same as any other LEC will.
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Nexicom High Speed Internet - »www.nexicom.net/ | |
freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10
1 edit | reply to Emanuel
The life time of a line is very difficult to determine. In large part, that's because your line isn't one set of wires, but several different cable. A huge (1200-200 pair) trunk leaves the CO and splits off to smaller and smaller cables as it gets closer to your home. Any segment can be replaced at a different interval and replacements are driven by the condition of the cable. In most areas, the trunk cables may be newer, in whole or in part, due to them having been severed in the past and 1 or more segments being replaced.
There is no way to tell the average age because there are so many sub-components of the infrastructure. Of more value to an urban planner is what services can be made available to users that change the dynamics of the population there. Are people moving there because of better broadband? Do more people telecommute because of it? Is there better broadband in high-income areas and in social housing projects? Knowing if there is FTTN (DSL remotes) in the area in an indicator if the caliber of service available.
Edit: Distance and the wire gauge, not the age per se are the determinants of speed. I could have a 100 year old wire of a lower numerical gauge outperform a poorly spliced cable installed last week. Age of passive equipment is a poor indicator of service quality. | |
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to Emanuel
You need to consider that Bell rarely replaces lines from the CO to the house in one shot. They may replace small segments that are damaged.
For instance, if squirrels have caused damage to an overhead wire between two junction boxes, (2 or 3 poles) they would replace that segment. I have seen it done, with one guy on each pole, and they coordinate which pair they are switching from the old to the new cable (limiting downtime for each house served by that bundle). However, the rest of the copper between the homes and the CO are not changed.
You'll have a very hard time getting any info from Bell and I am not sure Bell has any inventory of the age of each pice of wire in a neighbourhood. And the age of wires may not represent its condition. | |
Emanuel
@utoronto.ca
| reply to Emanuel
Thanks for the great replies folks, this helps a lot.
To clarify the basis for my enquiry, a group of us was retained to investigate the matter of old telecom infrastructure by a social services provider in the neighbourhood that is having difficulties supplying phone and Internet access to ~30 new social housing units. Bell has apparently signed up this organization to a higher-end DSL service, but the LOS is left wanting. I understand that signal loss is a problem. The organization has asked Bell technicians on site about the problem and they indicated that old, worn copper lines were an issue in the entire area.
As planning students, we were asked to investigate this matter, determine whether Parkdale in general has been ommitted from upgrade schedules, possibly due to its high proportion of impoverished and mentally-ill residents, and identify the regulatory framework and policies that govern telecom service delivery at all three levels of government.
We've found that neither Bell, nor Rogers, nor Cogeco are the least bit willing to share information on the subject, that the City of Toronto knows relatively very little about the state of the telecom infrastructure outside of its own internal uses, and that there is little government intervention in the telecom sector besides CRTC oversight.
Essentially we want to confirm the existence of a problem, determine whether it is related to the marginalized population of the neighbourhood, and identify ways to resolve the problem.
What I'm reading on these fora makes the problem a lot more complex than previously thought. Would any of you folks be willing to discuss this further via e-mail or otherwise? I can be contacted through this anonymous ID I believe.
Regards,
Emanuel | |
t3st3r
@teksavvy.com
| I live on Tyndall Ave. (south of King St.) in Parkdale, in an apartment building. I use Teksavvy DSL. When my service was first connected I was only able to sync at ~1.6Mbps/256Kbps with a very poor signal to noise ratio ( 5db). After calling my provider Bell sent a tech to check the lines. Because I was connected through the building's trunk I was on some very old copper, however I was moved to a remote terminal located just outside my building and I am now receiving 5Mbps/800kbps (the max offered by Teksavvy) with a 31db SNR. I don't know how many streets here have remotes installed but I have seen several in my area. My service was connected and fixed in 2007. | |
freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10
| reply to Emanuel
I'd be pleased to provide more insight. If you register, feel free to send me a PM. Your registration info is private and once you PM me, we can discuss offboard.
In general, there is no obligation to provide broadband to residents. That is to say that a provider who offers broadband in area A doesn't have to offer it to area B or C, or even to all customers in area A. This contrasts with basic telephone service where there is an obligation to serve certain new dwellings that are within a certain distance of existing facilities (facilities being wires and other elements).
In large part, there isn't universal service for broadband because of differential costs depending on density, take rates, existing competitors, proximity to major centres, etc. And the broadband providers are private companies, so they must be able to generate a satisfactory return on investment. There are programs for rural areas designed to entice companies to provide broadband and Bell has won several. They usually split the difference in cost between an deployment in an urban area and the rural area between the provider and OMAFRA. For example, if it costs $1K per customer on average in major centres and rural costs $2k, Bell will contribute $1500 and OMAFRA $500. This is my understanding of the funding formula, but it might not be correct.
The problem here isn't specific to Parkdale. Black holes of coverage where there is no or inferior DSL exist everywhere in the GTA. There are also areas where only slower speeds are available. The reasons for this vary, but in general breakdown pretty easily:
-Cost: If an area costs substantially more to equip or upgrade to provide a service, it will be done after the cheaper areas. This can be because of density, network configuration, etc.
-ROI/NPV: If an area is expected to produce an inferior return, even if it's costs are equal, deployment may be slowed or delayed. Because all of the providers are private businesses, they must be able to generate sufficient returns not only to pay off the cost of deployment and maintenance, but also to provide a dividend to shareholders.
-Technology horizon: sometimes a new disruptive technology is just on the horizon, so a provider may delay their existing rollout in order to wait for a better technology. For example, if fiber to the home is nearing the cost of installing fiber to the node (DSL remotes), a provider may cancel upgrades and wait for the newer technology to become viable.
-Regulatory uncertainty: because incumbent providers are compelled to sell access to some infrastructure at below-market rates, some providers may be hesitant to invest if that requirement dramatically alters their ability to recoup investment within the period they determine.
I don't think any provider, Bell, Rogers or other seeks out data on mental illness or social housing in order to determine deployment schedules. I see the same frequency of remote DSL boxes in St-Jamestown as I do in Rosedale or west of St-Jamestown in the Village. They may however look at the penetration rate they achieve now and ask themselves if the uptake of service is enough to justify an upgrade.
Again, I think your project is fascinating and worthy of help, so feel free to PM me. It's too bad the big guys aren't forthcoming, but it isn't surprising. | |
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