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<title>Topic &#x27;Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus&#x27; in forum &#x27;Security&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23311849</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:11:51 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:11:51 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23702496</link>
<description><![CDATA[Dude111 posted : Welcome ashore.......<br><br>I hope you can get your problem under control :)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:48:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>  Unwanted porn on computer</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/-Unwanted-porn-on-computer-23702374</link>
<description><![CDATA[ ole fossile posted :  <br>   I have a problem similar to this, but I think someone related loaded some porn onto the computer. <br> any suggestions as how to determine where it came from.   I am not very computer savy.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:17:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23401102</link>
<description><![CDATA[m0d posted : Hi Blue,<br><br>I agree there is no evidence to prosecute this person for the charges he was faced with. I feel sorry for the circumstances he found himself in and I am glad some level of justce is done in that he was proved innocent. However this is .gov and the investigation should not stop there (watch them try to sweep it under some carpet). With power comes responsibility and .gov these days does demand a lot of power. <br><br>In these circumstances, there is NO WAY that it is acceptable that a laptop that connects to a .gov network is not secure or could be trojaned in some way. Ok so the user was innocent, who above him allowed this to happen and those would be the heads that need to roll. By "above him", I dont mean his direct boss either but rather the IT Dept and its "head". Not only did this IT Dept provide evidence against him, they didnt realise it was their own internal failure. That for me is "incompetence at its best" and not acceptable.<br><br>Lets say that it was a live "malicious hacker" and not some "bot net"? I dont know what info is on their network but it is surely worth better protection. Is it acceptable that a .gov network had such poor security? For me no.<br><br>Secondly, ALL .gov employees that can connect to a .gov network should have some security basics. Its a training issue if this guy wasnt equiped to deal with or escalate what happened on his laptop. That is another failure of "the system" or some "higher individual". The "witchhunt" should go on until it falls at the door of those who allowed this to happen. But it probably wont. <br><br>I for one second dont want to blame the "individual" .. its the system that allowed this and someone much higher in the food chain needs to answer. <br><br>Hi ashrc4,<br><br>Exactly, a fool with a tool is still a fool. Where is the training? Worse yet the untrained and infected zombie laptops can connect to secure networks? <br><br>Hi MGD,<br><br>Some great info. <br><br>"Glennon went on to testify that it is highly unlikely for Internet files to be on the computer without activity by the user and that there is no way for files to be in the Internet folder without browsing the Internet. A review of the Symantec logs by Mr. Glennon would have revealed the viruses and Trojans that were attacking the Laptop for four and a half months."<br><br>WOW .. whose head should roll? <br><br>".. the DIA spent approximately 3 hours investigating the computer ... With only 3 hours spent on the Laptop by the DIA, they could not possibly have conducted a thorough investigation ... I have spent over 100 hours conducting a thorough forensic examination of the Laptop in order to reach the preliminary results and conclusions contained in this report and my investigation continues. It appears that the only investigation by the DIA was to copy the temporary internet files and confirm that child pornography existed on the computer when it was in Michael Fiola&#146;s possession."<br><br>OMG is all I can say to that. Especially if that laptop wasnt formatted clean in the first place. Yeah sure.. It would take months then alright. But the first thing I would flag in any "forensic exam" is that it actually wasnt formatted before the guy got it. <br><br>"In my opinion it was the total malfeasance of the DIA's IT department, specifically the portion after the discovery, is what really did Fiola in."<br><br>Agreed and this would be obvious to any "forensic examiner".<br><br>"<br>What is even more infuriating is that neither Glennon, and the Mass. DIA management, have enough spine to stand up after they were shown to be incompetent, and admit they made an error. That would be both the moral and ethical thing to do."<br><br>Well said.. and we need to trust these people with our info? Not to mention the poor "accused" who is "innocent" or NOT TRAINED?<br><br>"Based on this, one can only imagine what the overall security status of the DIA's Network is."<br>I will hazard a "guess" at "LOL".. not really comforting.<br><br>"A quick check brings up this in the minutes of a 2007"<br>OMG.. "He stated that to the best of the DIA's knowledge, only three people had their identities compromised." ... In fairness.. they dont have a lot of knowledge.. and a better presumption is "incompetence" and any data they had responsibility for .. remains at risk. GOD!<br><br>@Blue<br>"Nice, MGD. I correct my previous comments.<br><br>Mr. Glennon should be taken to Guantanamo. He's far too dangerous and arrogant to leave in ANY position of government authority. With "Chief information Officers" like that in government, forget terrorists. We're likely to self-destruct without any outside assistance."<br><br>I cannot agree more. I just hope that this is not now the "end of it" and some prosecutor follows it up the food chain.<br><br>Finally, if I was the "accused" I would be getting the same lawyer that proved me innocent and sue for damages done by this "IT Dept". But maybe that is just me? :)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:13:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23385616</link>
<description><![CDATA[Doctor Four posted : This could happen to anybody. A story over at the Register mentions scareware called Win Spy Protect that claims to clean up porn images found on a PC in fact downloads such images to the infected PC:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>said by The Register :</small><hr>Roger Thompson, chief of research at security firm AVG, ran across the threat months ago but held back on publishing details until Thursday. Heightened concerns about how malware infection could result in presence of image of child abuse on the PCs of non-paedophiles prompted Thompson into publishing a video of the threat (below).<br><br>The hacked website linked to the attack was a children's site and the content strictly adult porn. However, the tactic could result in child abuse images getting dropped onto the machines of surfers whose only mistake was to stray onto hacked websites, as Thompson explains.<br><br>    Fortunately, LinkScanner detects the rogue-spyware aspects of this and blocks it just fine, but without LinkScanner, these images would now be in the browser cache, and it would sure look like the owner was guilty. Worse still, the images could just as easily be kiddy porn, and just being your cache would be regarded as possession, and therefore highly illegal by most law enforcement agencies.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br><p><div style='z-index:0; text-align:center;display:block;'><object width='425' height='350'><param name='movie' value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6s6mkvKi1mA"><param name=wmode value="transparent"><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6s6mkvKi1mA" type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350' allowscriptaccess='samedomain'></embed></object></div></p><center>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s6mkvKi1mA&feature=player_embedded" >www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s6mkvKi&middot;&middot;&middot;embedded</A></center><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/19/smut_scareware/" >www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/19&middot;&middot;&middot;areware/</A><br><small>--<br>"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:47:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23382353</link>
<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : Nice, MGD. I correct my previous comments. <br><br>Mr. Glennon should be taken to Guantanamo. He's far too dangerous and arrogant to leave in ANY position of government authority. With "Chief information Officers" like that in government, forget terrorists. We're likely to self-destruct without any outside assistance.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:20:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23382255</link>
<description><![CDATA[MGD posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/989554" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=989554');">Blue2</a>:</small><br><br>Hi mod, <br><br>Let me clarify my point of view. From what was indicated, he wasn't responsible for anything. I'm not sure his bosses were responsible for anything. But his IT dept. was and should be held responsible. <br>..<br>.....<br>The problem in cases like this is that once they start, they take on a life of their own. <br> </div>What disturbs me the most about that case, is, as you stated, the DIA IT department. Specifically  Mr. John Glennon, the DIA's Chief Information Officer. I presume through total ignorance and lack of basic IT skills, as to suspect otherwise is beyond the pale. This case may never have left the ground had it not been for Mr. Glennon's total clueless statements, which had no basis in fact. Based on what and how Mr Fiola's employer turned over to the police, it is hard to find fault with how LE originally processed the case.<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>Loehrs, who spent a month dissecting the computer for the defense, explained in a 30-page report that the laptop was running corrupted virus-protection software, and Fiola was hit by spammers and crackers bombarding its memory with images of incest and pre-teen porn not visible to the naked eye. DIA turned the matter over to state police who, after confirming "an overwhelming amount of images of prepubescent children engaged in pornographic poses" were stored on the laptop, persuaded Boston Municipal Court to issue a criminal complaint against Fiola in August 2007. <br><hr></blockquote><br><br>Excerpts from Loehr's forensic report, statements relative to Mr. John Glennon, the DIA's Chief Information Officer, are bolded:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr><b>Mr. Glennon testified that there is no evidence that anyone else other than the Administrator had ever accessed the Laptop.</b> However, a review of the computer revealed several other accounts that had been created on the Laptop prior to Michael Fiola including diauser, user, test and test2. Unfortunately, all previous accounts had been deleted, thereby eliminating potentially relevant evidence.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>Also, remember the SMS account on the laptop for Symantec updates was left under a previous user, and was thus unable to update. However, the IT's dept central SMS server would have been showing alerts continuously for over four months, noting that Fiola's laptop was MIA and not connecting for AV updates.<br><br>Not only had Glennon's IT department not even checked that SMS log during the four months, (a 101 function), but apparently it was also not reviewed once the Cporn was discovered (pre 101).  It appears that they also did not even check the out of date Symantec AV local logs on the Laptop either, after discovery. Adding Insult to injury was Glennon's testimony:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr><b>Glennon went on to testify that it is highly unlikely for Internet files to be on the computer without activity by the user and that there is no way for files to be in the Internet folder without browsing the Internet.</b> A review of the Symantec logs by Mr. Glennon would have revealed the viruses and Trojans that were attacking the Laptop for four and a half months. <br><hr></blockquote><br><br>Fiola's forensic expert Tammy Loehrs, goes on to say:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>.. <b>the DIA spent approximately 3 hours investigating the computer ... With only 3 hours spent on the Laptop by the DIA, they could not possibly have conducted a thorough investigation</b> ... I have spent over 100 hours conducting a thorough forensic examination of the Laptop in order to reach the preliminary results and conclusions contained in this report and my investigation continues. It appears that the only investigation by the DIA was to copy the temporary internet files and confirm that child pornography existed on the computer when it was in Michael Fiola&#146;s possession. <br><hr></blockquote><br><br>Ref: 0006/2008 &raquo;<A HREF="http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/06/18/unchecked-malware-on.html" >gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/06/1&middot;&middot;&middot;-on.html</A><br><br>In my opinion it was the total malfeasance of the DIA's IT department, specifically the portion after the discovery, is what really did Fiola in.<br><br>The other issue which there have been no reports of, is the lost opportunity to track or perform forensics on the culprits responsible. It is likely that the laptop was compromised for commercial CPorn usage, either as CPA fraud, page hosting or a combination. By virtue of the initial failure to properly diagnose the problem, there was a lost opportunity to gather intelligence on commercial Cporn, an aspect that still is not getting the attention it deserves. That commercial genre of cyber crime rarely yields any effective LE action. <br><br>What is even more infuriating is that neither Glennon, and the Mass. DIA management, have enough spine to stand up after they were shown to be incompetent, and admit they made an error. That would be both the moral and ethical thing to do.<br><br>Based on this, one can only imagine what the overall security status of the DIA's Network is. A quick check brings up this in the minutes of a 2007 MA. government advisory council meeting:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>Meeting Minutes (4-11-07)<br><br><b>DIA SECURITY BREACH &#150; UNAUTHORIZED USE OF CLAIMANT DATA</b><br><br>Mr. John Glennon, Chief Information Officer, updated the Advisory Council Members regarding the recent unauthorized use of claimant data by a DIA contractor. Mr. Glennon stated that the incident, which took place on December 19, 2006, involved internet transactions on a DIA computer. He stated that law enforcement officials have charged the contractor with crimes related to credit card fraud. Mr. Glennon explained that the DIA immediately notified all of the claimants affected by this incident. He stated that to the best of the DIA's knowledge, only three people had their identities compromised.<br><br>Mr. Glennon informed the Council that the DIA is in the process of taking actions to resolve this situation and to ensure that this will not happen again. Mr. Glennon reported that the DIA has begun redacting certain information on viewable internal forms and that they are in the process of hiring a security consultant. Mr. Glennon informed the Council that the RFP team is currently in the selection process<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>Ref:&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=elwdterminal&L=6&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=EOLWD+Publications&L3=Workers+Compensation+Advisory+Council+Publications&L4=Meeting+Minutes+By+Year&L5=Meeting+Minutes+2007&sid=Elwd&b=terminalcontent&f=wcac_minutes_07_4_11&csid=Elwd" >www.mass.gov/?pageID=elwdtermina&middot;&middot;&middot;sid=Elwd</A><br><br>MGD]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:48:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23382001</link>
<description><![CDATA[ashrc4 posted : And the moral of the story is they should train there employee's to know or at least to recognize signs of infection. Evidence that their AV is functioning etc etc.<br>He could easily still have turned a blind eye or profited in some way. These avenues should be managed properly.<br><small>--<br>Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. So far nothing to report.<br>Now is the not right time to stop folding.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:00:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23381922</link>
<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : Hi mod, <br><br>Let me clarify my point of view. From what was indicated, he wasn't responsible for anything. I'm not sure his bosses were responsible for anything. But his IT dept. was and should be held responsible. <br><br>According to what MGD pointed out, they didn't secure the computer properly. They didn't re-image the machine, the coprate AV was not working, the server AV logs were not being watched, the machine was infected possibly BEFORE he was given it. All this lead to it becoming a bot server. And then in a sad irony, it was this same IT dept. who then reported him, got him fired and then caused the government to investigate. So whose head do you think should roll? <br><br>He doesn't have to be "proved" anything once the charges were dropped. At that point, there is No case against. But it's too late, because the damage is already done, he's lost his job, lost his life savings proving his inoccence and been branded a "pedophile" for life. <br><br>The problem in cases like this is that once they start, they take on a life of their own. I'll give you another one: if by chance your name happens to match the name of someone on the terrorist watch list, you're finished. Your life as you know it is over. Because those interpreting or investigating, will only see O's and 1's and you just became a match.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:12:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23381330</link>
<description><![CDATA[m0d posted : ".. EVEN SO .. "THIS" IS NO DEFENCE for any .gov or .mil employee."<br><br>Hi Blue.. <br><br>By that I mean his superiors too not just the "accused". If he is proved innocent then its not his fault however these things have a habbit of falling into a "black hole" when justice demands that the evidence trail needs to be followed upwards :)<br><br>Sorry for any confusion but if I was this guy I would sue those that "prosecuted" me.. <br><br>I think I view this not so much from the perspective of the guy accused. Rather an average citizen that must trust their info to people we expect to be competent. "someone is guilty" that is the point. My bet is .. this is the last we hear of the matter though.<br><br>Apologies again if my post confused. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:13:01 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23374458</link>
<description><![CDATA[fatness posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/989554" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=989554');">Blue2</a>:</small><br><br>What makes me even more afraid than child porn is reading some of the replies in this thread. There is still the PRESUMPTION that he might be responsible, or have "gotten away with something", despite the fact that the charges were dropped.</div>That is the problem. <br><br>There's no one in this thread who wants children sexually exploited. Or beaten, or starved, or sold into slavery, or harmed. We want our governments to prosecute those who do these things. <br><br>Emotions against those who harm children run so high that the effort to prosecute the evidoers gets steered by the loudest, most judgmental, most knee-jerk voices. Investigation by news reporters and sometimes by government prosecutors is pushed aside in favor of "We Caught Another Hideous Evil Bastard!" headlines and the accompanying cheers to punish and exact retribution. Emotions lead to assuming people are guilty. The government doesn't have to investigate fully to please the public; it's enough to make broad claims with a smidgeon of evidence, some denunciation, and a harsh sentence. The news media will do the rest. <br><br>And the effort to find an punish those who harm children is derailed into ruining people with a virus on their machine.<br><br>People should be ashamed of themselves for supporting this, instead of going after those who harm children. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://bit.ly/F5Ojd">"I cannot teach him. The boy has no pants."</a></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:02:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23374369</link>
<description><![CDATA[jefe posted : Bravo  Blue2 <A HREF="/useremail/u/989554"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>.  Bravo!!!]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:16:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23374312</link>
<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1167925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1167925');">m0d</a>:</small><br><br> I would have sympathy for the guy if what you say is verified. In the same breath, I ask what is he doing in a .gov position and exposing his collegues to .. well you name it.. this time a porn dl .. next time? who knew?  </div><div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1167925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1167925');">m0d</a>:</small><br><br> Finally, child porn is abhorrent.. someones head should roll here..  </div><div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1167925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1167925');">m0d</a>:</small><br><br> Am I sure this guy didn't dl porn himself .. NO<br>AM I SURE that this is not acceptable for .gov/.mil .. Absolutely.. <br> </div>I'm confused. Are you blaming the user who was charged, or the IT guy who didn't secure the machine properly before giving it to the user? <br><br>How many employees are given computers that have been used by someone before them? Millions. How many don't know enough about computers or security to know what might be on the machine? Millions. How many don't even know if their company's security applications are working properly? Millions. Whose responsibility is that? NOT theirs, since that isn't part of THEIR job description. Rather it's the IT guy who should be fired and ridiculed for not applying proper security procedures. And having "gov" attached to your name usually makes you a civil servant (in this case an accident investigator), NOT someone responsible for securing military secrets.<br><br>Would you like your car rental company to tell you that YOU are responsible for making sure that the car works properly before you drive it, and if the brakes fail, we'll hold YOU responsible?<br><br>What makes me even more afraid than child porn is reading some of the replies in this thread. There is still the PRESUMPTION that he might be responsible, or have "gotten away with something", despite the fact that the charges were dropped. Using that same logic, let's just take everyone at Guantanamo out back and shoot them. They were locked up for a reason, and we wouldn't want anyone to get away with something EVEN IF the US government drops the charges. A bullet will be a cheap, expedient way to protect our dear country. Besides, it will free up lots of court time. We'll just have to make a modification to the Pledge of Allegiance... "with liberty and (our most efficient form of American) justice for all" ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:35:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23373809</link>
<description><![CDATA[m0d posted : "It is actually a worse travesty of justice than that. I read the documentation of the case when it first came out, and that has been a while ago. From memory, Michael Fiola was a industrial accident investigator for the state of MA. He was issued a laptop which he took in the field. He was by no means computer savvy, just entered case site data into form templates. The Laptop also had a wireless cell card. The IT admin guy notices that Fiola's laptop is showing up on the monthly bill as having large data transfers, 3, 4 and 5 times the normal amount. He asks Fiola to bring in his Latop so he can check it. He finds caches of child porn images on the Laptop, tells the dept. manager. Fiola is fired and the cops are called."<br><br>Great info if correct .. the bottom line remains WE ALL expect better from any .gov when the average person had no "privacy  expectations" within "certain scopes" for .mil, .gov etc issues<br><br>.. EVEN SO .. "THIS" IS NO DEFENCE for any .gov or .mil employee. Budget cutbacks are one thing.. compromise security is totally another. Save a cent to lose a dollar? NO thx.. IF this can be done with a .gov comp .. the sky is the limit. <br><br>Going forward .. that is not something that can be fixed.<br><br>I would have sympathy for the guy if what you say is verified. In the same breath, I ask what is he doing in a .gov position and exposing his collegues to .. well you name it.. this time a porn dl .. next time? who knew? <br><br>Nice to know that the "someone" is in control of these issues.. or demands to be.. at the same time FAILing hard.. no?<br><br>Finally, child porn is abhorrent.. someones head should roll here.. <br><br>"Excellent post on this subject. Once again it makes me wonder who protects us from the protectors."<br>.. EXACTLY! :)<br><br>All "security" relies on "power" .. who empowered this to happen? <br><br>When we do not have "power ourselves" it would be time to ask those that "do" .. WTF? Particularly in a case like this no?<br><br>I agree with Oleg 100% too .. this came down to "delegation" I think and blame needs to flow UP the chain and not "down" :)<br><br>look.. no blame to individuals. THE SYSTEM.. needs to work.. and if it dont? SHOUT LOUD or next time its you .. <br><br>Am I sure this guy didn't dl porn himself .. NO<br>AM I SURE that this is not acceptable for .gov/.mil .. Absolutely.. <br>However, stuff needs to "bubble up" and not down. Regardless of budget.<br><br>Cutbacks + pay peanuts + security is not particularly good either = why claim any security at all?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:38:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23367621</link>
<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : And all I can say is that you have a peculiar sense of analogies.  I believe my example of finding explosives in your rental car was a much closer analogy to what happened here than your hunting violation. To make sure it's "clearer", I'll point out just a few obvious distinctions:<br><br>-- The bag is yours. The rental car or company computer ISN'T. It's THEIRS on loan to you, which DE FACTO means that other people had access to it (including the IT guy who could have put the porn there as a joke or to get you fired as just some stupid examples of how one could establish reasonable doubt.)<br><br>-- The hunting violation is a fine, with NO trial UNLESS you want to contest the fine. The rental car and computer incidents will automatically bring you to trial, but require a much higher burden of proof to  (a) bring a charge, (b) have a judge/grand jury accept the charge to PERMIT it to go to trial and (c) convince a jury to convict. <br><br>-- The hunting violation has a minimal sanction, is of little importance to the pubic, and has no risk of embarrassment for a false charge. The rental car or computer incidents have high penalties, are of high importance to the public ("we have to punish someone" or what will the public think), and reflect on the DA's conviction rate. Get lots of your cases tossed out by a judge for insufficient proof linking the crime to the accused and you'll get a reputation pretty quickly. The fact that false prosecutions happen often enough in computer cases shows the general ineptness of computer expertise in law enforcement/judicial system.<br><br>If all possession crimes were as obvious  as you suggest, why wouldn't law enforcement plant evidence on every one that they'd like to see put away? I believe because as I've suggested, the more significant the crime, the higher will be the standards to link the person to the possession. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:58:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23367203</link>
<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : All I can say is that you seem to have a blind spot for the obvious.  <br><br>Let me give you another example.  There are bag limits set when hunting for waterfowl.  Now the many hunters cannot tell a pintail from a wigeon, so it is routine for hunter's bags to have too many of certain restricted species.  There is a steep fine for bag limit violations.   <br><br>You would not believe the wild excuses these hunters have.  "I shot the biggest snow goose you ever saw," when in fact they have a prohibited species of swan.  Or "I didn't shoot that one, somebody else must have shot it and my retriever picked it up by mistake."<br><br>The point is that this is a simple crime of possession.  You have an illegal bag, you pay the price.  None of these excuses will get you anywhere.  You can fight in court, but good luck with that.  <br><br>If I have too many pintails in my bag, it's not up to the game warden to prove that the bag is mine. Also he can assume that I didn't find it dead, no matter what I claim.  That's how all crimes involving possession work.  It could be illegal drugs, illegal child porn or illegal hunting bag limits.  <br><br>But this is drifting way off topic.  Have it your way. <br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:25:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23366885</link>
<description><![CDATA[norwegian posted : <br>Huh?<br><br>What makes you think an office clerk doing data entry should know anything about the internals of the computer?<br><br>As long as the software works, they wouldn't look any further.<br><small>--<br>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:22:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23366661</link>
<description><![CDATA[Oleg posted : Government employees should know a lot about computers.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:41:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23366524</link>
<description><![CDATA[norwegian posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/666842" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=666842');">MGD</a>:</small><br><br>After the forensic examiner turned over her results to the prosecutor, <b>they then performed a second (real) forensic examination of the original preserved hard drive.</b> That subsequent examination confirmed the results that the forensic examiner hired by Fiola had conducted on the cloned copy. There was never probable cause to charge him in the first place. The evidence that he could not have been responsible always existed.<br> </div>Bingo. <br>A scary and a very real scenario. Until that point it was <b>all hearsay</b> and it should not have gone to trial. Maybe a preliminary hearing for trial, but never to trial<br>How do you get your life back after that?<br><br>The information highway is a real concern for privacy, security, and your family's well-being.<br><br>The hard-core out there can say the Internet is safe and to say it isn't is scare mongering. I tend to disagree. There is so many open door ways and so many useless people in jobs that control these doors, that the old comment "I was innocent" uttered around jail cells will increase. Stories such as this only high light the real issues.<br><br>A bit like a line out of the movie Armageddon, where they take off in the "high-tech" shuttles, "RockHound" said something like this "How does it feel to sit on 30,000 pounds of fuel, 1 nuclear war head, and knowing the job went out to the lowest bidder". It just brings you back to Earth rather quickly, if you can excuse the pun.  <br><small>--<br>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:18:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23366308</link>
<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : Sorry, I don't agree.<br><br>(1) When the DA drops the charges, from what I can tell, that is the same as having not been charged. You have not proceeed to trial nor have the charges been brought before a judge. Only a judge or a jury can exonerate you, NOT the DA. You are not acquited, as you have NOT been tried.<br><br>(2) I have stated all along that unless there is evidence that links you to the crime, there is no cause to charge you. I've never changed my opinion on that. Forget the dead body. They find high grade explosives in the rental car that you are driving. You're a terrorist right? Not quite. They go to great pains to discover where the explosives were acquired and who acquired them. How were they transported to the car. Are there any traces of your DNA that links you to the explosives. Did any other people have access to the car? Was it checked by the car rental company before it was given to you? The mere presence of explosives in the car that you happen to be driving might set off a lot of alarm bells, but it still does NOT link you to any crime or criminal activity.<br><br>Sorry, if the DA failed to do these checks <b>BEFORE</b> bringing charges, then he failed to do his job which is to determine if there is sufficient evidence to link the person to the crime.<br><br>I don't think I've missing anythng that you've suggested. I just don't agree with your analysis. What does "possession" mean to you? If it is a company computer, do I possess it or do they? Did I install the software or did they? Did they verify the contents before giving it to me? Did anyone else have access to it? Sorry, I still don't buy that the "possession" argument was very well substantiated.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:41:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23366184</link>
<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/989554" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=989554');">Blue2</a>:</small><br><br>Well stated, and that was my point, if it was not clear. There was <b>insufficient evidence to charge him with this crime</b> not that they didn't have evidence.  </div>First you claimed that dropping charges was the same as not charging at all.  You are wrong on that.<br><br>Now you claim that charges were dropped because there was insufficient evidence linking the suspect to the crime.  You are wrong about that too.  There was illegal child pornography on the laptop which he had in his possession.  Possessing child pornography is a crime in the US.  <br><br>The DA dropped the charges, not because of lack of evidence but because additional evidence exonerated him from the crime for which he was charged. Not because the original evidence was insufficient as you claim. <br><br>The real point you are missing is the nature of the criminal charge: unlawful possession of child pornography.  The accused was in fact in possession of child pornography.  There is no question about that.  <br><br>This is why the example of the dead body is not on point here.  There the charge would be murder, not the unlawful possession of a corpse.  In this case, the accused was not charged with child molestation; he was charged only with possession of illegal material.  The DA had a legal obligation to press charges in view of the clear evidence that the accused did possess illegal material.  It was then up to the defendant to provide evidence that the possession was not unlawful.  <br><br>Yes, when it comes to laws governing mere possession, you are obligated to prove your innocence.   Sorry if you don't like it.  I don't like it either.  But that's the way the law works. This particular horror story makes it all too clear. <br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:19:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23365962</link>
<description><![CDATA[Oleg posted : He is lucky.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:32:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23365747</link>
<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/666842" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=666842');">MGD</a>:</small><br><br>There was never probable cause to charge him in the first place. The evidence that he could not have been responsible always existed. </div> <br>Well stated, and that was my point, if it was not clear. There was <b>insufficient evidence to charge him with this crime</b> not that they didn't have evidence. <br><br>Per the example of the dead body. You might have evidence of a crime (someone is dead), but you can't charge someone until you have evidence that <b>links them</b> to the crime. Mere vicinity to the crime scene usually is insufficient to bring charges. That is circumstantial which is EXACTLY what this sounded like from the beginning. <br><br>jmorlain, your analysis suggests that he has to prove his innocence and that is NOT the case. Once a link to him could not be established, meaning that they did not have evidence to link him to the images, they dropped the case. Is that any clearer?<br><br>Here's further clarification: "In theory, a prosecutor's job is not to convict and send to prison as many persons as possible. The basic function of a prosecutor is to seek the truth about criminal actions. Thus, if a prosecutor discovers evidence that puts the defendant's guilt in doubt or relieves the defendant of criminal liability, the prosecutor must turn that evidence over to the defendant. <b>If a prosecutor lacks evidence of a defendant's guilt, he or she must drop the charges or decline to press charges.</b> &raquo;<A HREF="http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/District+attorney+%28county%29" >legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona&middot;&middot;&middot;ounty%29</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:55:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23365471</link>
<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : Thanks to  MGD <A HREF="/useremail/u/666842"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> for providing us with the facts of this case in much more detail.   It seems clear from these facts that the government that issued the infected laptop and the IT department who were supposed to maintain it were guilty of negligence.  They were the actual owners of the laptop and were responsible for its security.  <br><br>And  jefe <A HREF="/useremail/u/393752"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> you are right about the technical difference between dropped charges and acquittal.  Acquittal is better because you cannot be charged again as you point out.  I probably overstated the case because  Blue2 <A HREF="/useremail/u/989554"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> insisted that having charges dropped was the same as never having charges filed.  Therefore there was no case at all to discuss or speculate about because there was no evidence or inadequate evidence to prosecute.  I continue to disagree with that view.  As  MGD <A HREF="/useremail/u/666842"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> has made clear, there was plenty of evidence in this case. <br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:04:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23365310</link>
<description><![CDATA[jefe posted : MGD....<br><br>Excellent post on this subject.  Once again it makes me wonder who protects us from the protectors.<br><br>And jmorlan....you are wrong about charges being dropped and acquittal at trying being the same.  <br><br>I'm not a lawyer but it's my understanding that in most cases, an acquittal carries with it "prejudice,"  while having the charges dropped is "without prejudice." <br><br>When a case is dropped without  prejudice the prosecutor can always reinstate the charges.   After an acquittal, double jeopardy applies and the defendant cannot be charged again for the same offense.<br><br>All I can say is what a nightmare to find yourself in.  This guy, besides having lost his job, spent all that money, and lived with the prospect of going to jail for something he didn't do, will always have a cloud of suspicion hanging over him.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:33:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23365301</link>
<description><![CDATA[MGD posted : I was looking for a reference link to the copy of the forensic report conducted by Tami Loehrs. The linked thread above had one, but the pdf is no longer there.<br><br>I did however find an article that includes an interview with her and also mentions the recent case that she dropped out of.<br><br>The article also references Fiola:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>In 2007, Fiola&#146;s bosses became suspicious after the Internet bill for his state-issued laptop showed that he used 4&frac12; times more data than his colleagues. A technician found child porn in the PC folder that stores images viewed online.<br><br>Fiola was fired and charged with possession of child pornography, which carries up to five years in prison. He endured death threats, his car tires were slashed and he was shunned by friends.<br><br>Fiola and his wife fought the case, spending $250,000 on legal fees. They liquidated their savings, took a second mortgage and sold their car.<br><br>An inspection for his defense revealed the laptop was severely infected. It was programmed to visit as many as 40 child porn sites per minute &#151; an inhuman feat. While Fiola and his wife were out to dinner one night, someone logged on to the computer and porn flowed in for an hour and a half.<br><br>Prosecutors performed another test and confirmed the defense findings. The charge was dropped &#151; 11 months after it was filed.<br><br>The Fiolas say they have health problems from the stress of the case. They say they&#146;ve talked to dozens of lawyers but can&#146;t get one to sue the state, because of a cap on the amount they can recover.<br><br>"It ruined my life, my wife&#146;s life and my family&#146;s life," he says.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>Most well qualified forenisc examiners, can find evidence that would incriminate real intentional downloading of CPorn and there is usually additional evidence elsewhere. Most sickos will have a trail which leads beyond the computer.<br><br>The dangers of downloading file sharing programs:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>Many prosecutors say blaming a computer virus for child porn is a new version of an old ploy.<br><br>"We call it the SODDI defense: Some Other Dude Did It," says James Anderson, a federal prosecutor in Wyoming.<br><br>However, forensic examiners say it would be hard for a pedophile to get away with his crime by using a bogus virus defense<br><br>"I personally would feel more comfortable investing my retirement in the lottery before trying to defend myself with that," says forensics specialist Jeff Fischbach.<br><br>Even careful child porn collectors tend to leave incriminating e-mails, DVDs or other clues. Virus defenses are no match for such evidence, says Damon King, trial attorney for the U.S. Justice Department&#146;s Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section.<br><br>But while the virus defense does not appear to be letting real pedophiles out of trouble, there have been cases in which forensic examiners insist that legitimate claims did not get completely aired.<br><br>Loehrs points to Ned Solon of Casper, Wyo., who is serving six years for child porn found in a folder used by a file-sharing program on his computer.<br><br>Solon admits he used the program to download video games and adult porn &#151; but not child porn. So what could explain that material?<br><br>Loehrs testified that Solon&#146;s antivirus software wasn&#146;t working properly and appeared to have shut off for long stretches, a sign of an infection. She found no evidence the five child porn videos on Solon&#146;s computer had been viewed or downloaded fully. The porn was in a folder the file-sharing program labeled as "incomplete" because the downloads were canceled or generated an error.<br><br>This defense was curtailed, however, when Loehrs ended her investigation in a dispute with the judge over her fees. Computer exams can cost tens of thousands of dollars. Defendants can ask the courts to pay, but sometimes judges balk at the price. Although Loehrs stopped working for Solon, she argues he is innocent.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/general/view.bg?&articleid=1210569&format=&page=1&listingType=nat#articleFull" >www.bostonherald.com/news/nation&middot;&middot;&middot;icleFull</A><br><br>MGD]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:31:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23365087</link>
<description><![CDATA[MGD posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/989554" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=989554');">Blue2</a>:</small><br><br>Sorry, you still are not getting the point. <br><br>He didn't "get off". They dropped the charges (which is usually done due to lack of evidence). It's as if he were NEVER charged. There is no need for any "defense" and it doesn't require ANY speculation. These are facts, if the article that antdude posted has these facts stated correctly. <br><br> </div>.<br>It is actually a worse travesty of justice than that. I read the documentation of the case when it first came out, and that has been a while ago. From memory, Michael Fiola was a industrial accident investigator for the state of MA. He was issued a laptop which he took in the field. He was by no means computer savvy, just entered case site data into form templates. The Laptop also had a wireless cell card. The IT admin guy notices that Fiola's laptop is showing up on the monthly bill as having large data transfers, 3, 4 and 5 times the normal amount. He asks Fiola to bring in his Latop so he can check it. He finds caches of child porn images on the Laptop, tells the dept. manager. Fiola is fired and the cops are called.<br><br>This clueless IT Admin is who starts the downhill rolling snowball from hell. One of the first things revealed from a forensic analysis is that the corporate AV is not functioning, and never has since the laptop was issued to Fiola. The IT department issued Fiola a "hand me down" laptop from a previous employee. Instead of re imaging the device, they just set it up with a new account for Fiola. The corp AV service in the Laptop still had the previous employee's account credentials, and therefore could not call home to the main server for its updates. Besides that cluster IT screw up, the server AV SMS logs would have repeatedly shown that the Laptop was MIA with respect to the AV not calling in for updates. Apparently no one in IT noticed that for months.<br><br>The later analysis showed that the laptop was infected with multiple malware and had been for some time. It more than likely was infected prior to Fiola being issued with it, and became progressively worse. The images were never directly accessed locally form the machine. They were downloaded then hosted and served back out.<br><br>Time stamped logs of when some images were imported matched times when Fiola and his wife were eating at a restaurant (receipts). His laptop was a bot server. Those forensic results were not found until long after Fiola was charged and the police had completed their investigation.<br><br>Fiola had spent his life savings hiring one of the most renowned forensic examiners. She told Fiola up front that before he went forward with this, that if she found evidence that he was complicit it would be given to the prosecutor.<br><br>This was not a case where there was insufficient evidence, and thus the charges were dropped. There were reams of evidence on the hard drive. That evidence clearly showed that the images were neither downloaded or viewed as a result of local user activity entered from the Laptop itself. The machine was a cesspool of infections.<br><br>After the forensic examiner turned over her results to the prosecutor, they then performed a second (real) forensic examination of the original preserved hard drive. That subsequent examination confirmed the results that the forensic examiner hired by Fiola had conducted on the cloned copy. There was never probable cause to charge him in the first place. The evidence that he could not have been responsible always existed.<br><br>That IT admin should never ever work in the industry again. To say that the IT department was clueless is an understatement. To make matters worse to this day as as far as I know the department manager and the state of MA, have not and will not admit their errors. Though the prosecutor and LE confirm the findings, Fiola's employer, "the state" refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing, or even rescind the initial false allegations. Nor have they offered Fiola his job back, not that he would want it. Nor have they offered to pay any of his life savings back that he spent on exonerating himself.<br><br>My opinion of the forensic examiner that Fiola hired has recently been downgraded. I recall reading a few weeks ago, where she is involved in another similar case where she was brought in by a public defender. Her initial examination has shown similar results as Fiolas. However, if memory serves me, she has stopped and dropped out of the case, because the judge will not approve of the state paying her very high fees.<br><br>I am not sure what prompted the recent media attention on Fiola, as most of the issues were known over a year ago:<br><br>Prior postings from circa June 2008: &raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r20661163-Lax-security-leads-to-childporn-charges">Lax security leads to child-porn charges</A><br><br>MGD]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:55:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : I'm sorry but I think I do get the point.  <br><br>He was charged with a crime and then the charges were dropped because he convinced the DA there was not enough evidence to pursue the case. <br><br>There are several levels at which a person charged with a crime can be exonerated.  The DA can drop the charges.  The judge can throw out the charges.  A jury can find the defendant not guilty of the charges.  All three have the same result.  The defendant is free to go and has no criminal record.  However there may still be a court record that he was charged and if he was arrested, there is still an arrest record.  <br><br>The point that you seem to be missing is that he was charged with a crime.  He came up with a clever defense.  The DA accepted that the defense was reasonable enough that the defendant would not likely be convicted and so he dropped the charges.<br><br>The result is the same as if he were acquitted by a jury and found not guilty.  It's not the same as if he were never charged.  You are wrong to claim that having charges dropped is the same as never having been charged in the first place.  <br><br>I think we have a right to speculate about the facts here.  As I pointed out, we don't know the full facts, just the bogus newspaper version.  There are various possible scenarios as I have outlined.  <br><br>Which scenario do you think is most plausible?<br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:00:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
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<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : Sorry, you still are not getting the point. <br><br>He didn't "get off". They dropped the charges (which is usually done due to lack of evidence). It's as if he were NEVER charged. There is no need for any "defense" and it doesn't require ANY speculation. These are facts, if the article that antdude posted has these facts stated correctly. <br><br>So when they find the dead body in YOUR home, and establish that a dozen other people had access and that you were away when it happened, when they drop the charges, do we assume that you "got off" too? <br><br>It's innocent until proven guilty and when the state decides to drop the case, it's because they aren't even convinced that a judge will let the case go to trial with such flimsy evidence. <br><br>Dropping charges is not a step that they take lightly. If they thought there were ANY chance that a judge would permit the charge to stand and that a jury might convict, they'd move forward on the charges. They fact that they withdrew them shows <b>their</b> lack of certainty that the charges are correct.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:19:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
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<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : There are a several plausible scenarios.  <br><br>1.  The box was hijacked and being used as a proxy to transmit child porn to somebody who wanted to avoid detection, hiding his IP behind the proxy.  <br><br>2.  The box was infected by Malware that sent child porn to it in plain view (perhaps in web pop-ups) in order to encourage the user to visit web sites which sell more child porn.  <br><br>3.  The material was not actually child porn, but merely "hot teen" porn where the model's age could not be determined.<br><br>In the first instance, the illegal material should not normally appear in the open.  Perhaps it could be found by digging through the proxy cache if it exists.  Is this what happened?  If so the user would be completely unaware there was illegal material on his computer and I might buy his story.<br><br>I think the second instance is entirely implausible because there is no financial motive.  If child porn is sold, it is deep underground, not in the open on public web sites.  Mere possession is a crime almost everywhere.  The market is limited and producing it is a far worse crime than selling it or just possessing it.  The risk/reward ratio is extremely high.  <br><br>The last scenario is somewhat plausible.  We've already discussed that possibility; that the story is highly sensationalized and the most or all of the material was not what most of us would consider to be actual child porn.<br><br>But if we accept the story at face value, that massive amounts of child porn were on the box, and that it was in plain sight, I have to go with parsimony.  He was guilty but got off with a clever defense.  <br><br>Unfortunately, we will probably never know the truth of the matter.  We are all just speculating at this point. <br><br> <br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:36:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[jefe posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/243195" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=243195');">fatness</a>:</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/989554" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=989554');">Blue2</a>:</small><br><br>About the <b>ONLY</b> thing I am convinced of is that in the majority of these cases, the proper analysis is not done, nor all the potential suspects checked, because there is a rush to judgement due to the inherent emotional nature of the issue. Someone, anyone, has to be charged so that the public will feel safe and reassured that justice has been done. </div>It does seem that feeding the desire for outrage and vengeance takes a somewhat higher priority than justice in some of the cases, yes. <br> </div>Exactly, and unfortunately.<br><br>The result is often two fold.  First, and worst, an innocent person suffers beyond my imagination.<br><br>Second, and almost as bad, the guilty party gets away because those charged with finding who's guilty have stopped looking.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:57:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[fatness posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/989554" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=989554');">Blue2</a>:</small><br><br>About the <b>ONLY</b> thing I am convinced of is that in the majority of these cases, the proper analysis is not done, nor all the potential suspects checked, because there is a rush to judgement due to the inherent emotional nature of the issue. Someone, anyone, has to be charged so that the public will feel safe and reassured that justice has been done. </div>It does seem that feeding the desire for outrage and vengeance takes a somewhat higher priority than justice in some of the cases, yes. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://bit.ly/F5Ojd">"I cannot teach him. The boy has no pants."</a></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:52:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
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<description><![CDATA[Blue2 posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/305506" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=305506');">jmorlan</a>:</small><br><br> I'm not at all convinced he was innocent...Call me skeptical. <br> </div>As an ex-New Yorker, I'm more skeptical than you. I'm not convinced of <b>anything</b>. <br><br>Forget the source material for a moment. The police come to your home and find a dead body. You must have killed him right? It's generally considered circumstantial evidence and without knowing <b>all</b> the circumstances, no one will label you as a murderer. Cause of death? Circumstances? Time? Anyone else have access? Anyone have copies of your keys? Could someone be framing you (not that the police have even done that)? Etc. <br><br>You kind of hope that someone asks those questions before they lock you away for the next 25 years. <br><br>About the <b>ONLY</b> thing I am convinced of is that in the majority of these cases, the proper analysis is not done, nor all the potential suspects checked, because there is a rush to judgement due to the inherent emotional nature of the issue. Someone, anyone, has to be charged so that the public will feel safe and reassured that justice has been done. <br><br>On the contrary, that doesn't make me feel safe at all.<br><br>Edit: As an aside, to Norwegian's point, we have a family friend, a doctor, who was accused by his ex-wife of having sexually abused their children. He was incarcerated..and then found innocent. Now you'd think that the investigators that pursued this case would have at least considered the ex-wife revenge angle <b>BEFORE</b> having him locked up. How do you get your life back after that and how can the state ever repay you? (Perhaps a good start would be incarcerating your ex-wife.)<br><br>Edit 2: <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/305506" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=305506');">jmorlan</a>:</small><br><br> He was exonerated,  </div> <b>Not</b> according to the original post from antdude. The charges "were dropped" which means that the State determined that it didn't even have enough evidence to bring the charge let alone to obtain a conviction. That leaves NO room for skepticism.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:08:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[norwegian posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/305506" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=305506');">jmorlan</a>:</small><br><br>I'm not at all convinced he was innocent.  I think he probably concocted a very clever defense.  I don't know details of the case, but the story as presented doesn't sound convincing at all.  <br><br>Do you really believe a PC Virus put child porn on his computer. I don't. <br><br>Call me skeptical. <br> </div>I'm not trying to play down you comment, but would someone using a computer to bounce off for illegal activites give anything away to the operator?<br><br>When I came here it was still XP sp1 and an internal modem, I did not know of half the traffic on that box.<br><br>Now with a router and SP3 and a little knowledge I feel a tad more secure. I've heard forums have been used for illegal traffic too, behind the admin's backs, or even a web site being hacked. If that was true or not either....well that isn't a question I have a clear answer on. This topic isn't any different I believe?<br><small>--<br>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:39:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : Not difficult to believe and I believe it is known to happen.  It is not difficult to make malware do exactly what it is accused of doing leaving the real perpetrator virtually free and clear.<br><br>This is the largest reason I lock down my wireless and each PC with a firewall.  It is the reason I tell others to lock down their wireless signals as well - to easy to have something like this happen.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:05:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : <div class="bquote">Sure the guy was innocent in the end. </div> He was exonerated, but I'm not at all convinced he was innocent.  I think he probably concocted a very clever defense.  I don't know details of the case, but the story as presented doesn't sound convincing at all.  <br><br>Do you really believe a PC Virus put child porn on his computer. I don't. <br><br>Call me skeptical. <br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:39:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[m0d posted : "Massachusetts government employee"<br><br>I think the bar needs to be raised to an acceptable level. These are .gov and impose all sorts of requests/restrictions on the rest of us. Sure the guy was innocent in the end. The larger question is WTF is he doing employed with .gov or what is .gov doing wrong that some random employee is infected?<br><br>If he is not responsible for a security breach? His bosses are.. heads should roll in a case like that.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:02:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
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<description><![CDATA[norwegian posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1683322" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1683322');">Vertigo23</a>:</small><br><br>What's sad is even though he's been cleared, in reality he never will be.  His life is pretty much ruined just from the allegation.<br> </div>That is a concern. <br><br>A similar issue had a friend go through this process, simply because the ex was good enough in the story to make it believable. The fear a parent has now of just bringing up their young is nothing short of scary. Let alone something of this nature.<br><br>This is also why I'm here today, my fear of what will happen with my computer and me and my family, ultimately because of exploits/malware and then what will happen to the kids and the affect it will have on them. Nothing can fix the heart when it is of this nature, the tarnish becomes rust and your whole world falls apart: you are lucky to be exonerated, let alone given your life back. I still remember some of the comments thrown at me in this forum when I started just because of my curiosity and the force and passion behind my questions.<br><br>I can not even begin to fathom what any one in this situation has to deal with even though you could say it was seen virtually first hand to a friend. <br><small>--<br>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:29:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/256189" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=256189');">NYR 56</a>:</small><br><br>I do think you can stumble on non-sexually explicit underage porn though.  I was trying to make that distinction. </div>I understand one might more or less 'stumble across' an image that makes one uncomfortable viewing it.<br>Whether or not something like that should be classified as <i>child pornography</i> is where the issue lies and where the laws and courts must endeavor to decide or distinguish.<br><br>Different people have different values and ideas about what, to them, constitutes pornography, and ergo, child pornography.<br>The cleavage photo here on dslreports.com and the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Editions I referred to earlier were enough to have some calling them "pornography", and evidently some were uncomfortable viewing them-- but if those depictions fit any legal definition of "pornography", then a whole big bunch of us are in some deep doo-doo over what we have on our machines.<br><br>But of course they don't, and if anyone has a link to kiddie-porn or regular porn prosecutions over cleavage photos or Sports Illustrated magazines, I'd love to see them.<br><br>This is where the law and the legal system are supposed to come into play-- to make these distinctions over what truly constitutes pornography or child pornography, and that which is merely considered offensive by those of a more puritanical mind-set.<br>There are going to be cases where those distinctions aren't easily drawn, and cases where something is outrageously included or excluded.<br><br>But I just wanted to make clear that anyone claiming that depictions of obviously underage children engaged in explicit sex acts are something that can be 'easily stumbled across when doing normal surfing' is not making a valid claim.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:31:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[NYR 56 posted : I do think you can stumble on non-sexually explicit underage porn though.  I was trying to make that distinction.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:53:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/256189" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=256189');">NYR 56</a>:</small><br><br>. . families typically don't take pictures of their naked young teen child </div>Yes, I'd agree with that. <br><br><div class="bquote">As far as actual underage sexual content, it definitely exists </div>I have no doubt whatsoever that it does exist, as I've previously stated.<br><br><div class="bquote">but I'm not sure you would generally stumble upon that. </div>Thank you.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:42:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[NYR 56 posted : When I said it doesn't really matter, what I meant to say is they weren't engaged in sexual activities but it was clear the photos were taken for sexual reasons.  I'm very against prosecuting parents for taking a picture of their child in the tub but these pictures were not that (anyway, families typically don't take pictures of their naked young teen child).  <br><br>As far as actual underage sexual content, it definitely exists but I'm not sure you would generally stumble upon that. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:27:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/256189" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=256189');">NYR 56</a>:</small><br><br>. . it's not sexually explicit but I don't think that really matters. </div>Some of the discussion in this thread, and most certainly the written laws that various legal actions are based upon, goes to the very exact point that it <i>does</i> matter.<br>Explicit vs. non-explicit. One is considered pornography, the other isn't.<br><br>I'll grant you that the purpose or intent of certain images may be to titillate or arouse, but written laws make certain exact distinctions about such content-- or at least sometimes do, or try to as best as possible.<br><br>Without these distinctions, anyone showing or posting photos of their own young children playing around naked in the inflatable pool in their back yard on a hot summer afternoon in the most non-sexual way possible would still be potentially opening themselves up for a kiddie-porn charge.<br>(Though I believe that has in fact happened once or twice anyway, and there's maybe been some mention about that in some previous thread.)<br><br>But to the point of my inquiry:<br>You're saying that you have never simply 'stumbled across' graphic images of, say, 8 or 10 year-olds engaged in explicit sex acts or pruriently displaying genitalia, or that you have?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:50:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[NYR 56 posted : Sorry I've been kind of caught up in various things and haven't had time to really put together a post.  I can't get into specifics (don't remember and wouldn't post them anyway) but I do know I've come across 'gallery' type sites and one of the categories sure looks like they are (very) underage.  I don't know if they are just small women and are marketing them as young or what but I do know that I saw underage stuff years ago (when I was underage I might add).  None of it interests me (I like DDs, why would I want an underage girl? heh) so I don't look for it but claiming it is hidden certainly isn't accurate.  I think those sites get off by saying it's naturist type photos so I guess it's not sexually explicit but I don't think that really matters.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:54:01 EDT</pubDate>
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<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23327183</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1223778" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1223778');">jp10558</a>:</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by J_Wadd :</small><br><br>You're the one who said it was easy to stumble across, not me.<br> </div>I never said it was easy to stumble on. That was another poster on the first page of the thread. </div>Yes, you're right. I noticed that myself later when I was re-reading the thread.<br>It was the nature of your response here:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r23319387-">Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</A> <br>that made me think I was replying to the poster of that comment, who was actually  NYR 56 <A HREF="/useremail/u/256189"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>.<br><br>He/she hasn't responded yet as to what has been personally experienced.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:32:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23327093</link>
<description><![CDATA[jp10558 posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by J_Wadd :</small><br><br>You're the one who said it was easy to stumble across, not me.<br>But you've provided no data, anecdotal or otherwise, as to how that's the case.<br>If anything, the anecdotal data you did provide indicates that that's specifically *not* the case.<br> </div>I never said it was easy to stumble on. That was another poster on the first page of the thread. I'm just saying that I have problems with ruining someones life based solely on one picture that may have been stumbled across. <br><small>--<br>Opera 10(Build 1750); Windows XP Pro SP3;Intel C2Q6600; 3GB DDR2 1066; 1M/128k DSL; Antivir Personal; Comodo Internet Security 3.10;<A HREF="http://my.opera.com/jp10558/blog/show.dml/40697">Proxomitron 4.5j Sidki 2009-06-06</a>,GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:30:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23322639</link>
<description><![CDATA[fatness posted : The problem with child pornography is the problem with terrorism: nearly everyone supported prosecuting it, but the definition kept expanding to include more and more things that were never part of the initial, clear idea everyone had of what to prosecute. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://bit.ly/F5Ojd">"I cannot teach him. The boy has no pants."</a></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:25:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23322489</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/243195" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=243195');">fatness</a>:</small><br><br>That's the point I was getting to: The content that "might" be seen as child pornography may be, for all we know, what is being prosecuted in some child pornography cases. It's a hot button, some people have a low threshhold for what they'll call porn or child porn, it's a headline-maker, so there are rewards to prosecuting it harshly. Even if it's cellphone images sent by one 16-year-old to her friend.<br><br>What people think of when they hear "child pornography" is 8 and 10 and 12 year olds being raped. What is being prosecuted in some child pornography cases may be something vastly different. <br> </div>I completely agree.<br>You've made the point yourself previously about how vague powers and law definitions can easily become all-encompassing umbrellas for prosecuting either those who are simply easily snared under these vague definitions or those against whom law enforcement may have an axe to grind.<br>And while "under the age of eighteen" isn't a vague definition from a legal standpoint, there are certainly gray areas from a morals standpoint as far as differentiating between 17 year-olds and 8 year-olds when it comes to referring to 'child pornography'.<br><br>Anecdotal info--<br>There's a member here who was putting forth the proposition once in a DSLR front page comments thread about how the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition is "pornography" due to the fact that it has stimulational value.<br>Which would seem to make reading Tolstoy or attending a play or a football game potentially pornographic activities as well.<br><br>So yeah, everyone is going to have a little different interpretation of exactly what constitutes 'child pornography' and what doesn't.<br><br>Personally, I'm like the former Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart who famously said, "I can't define it, but I sure as hell know it when I see it."]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:12:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23322309</link>
<description><![CDATA[fatness posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by J_Wadd :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/243195" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=243195');">fatness</a>:</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by J Wadd :</small><br><br>Very occasionally some stuff involving obviously underage girls that might be considered of erotic intent or prurient interest, maybe the occasional video or photo where the girl being over 18 might appear to be questionable</div>Isn't that child pornography? </div>No.<br>I said "<i>might be</i> considered of erotic intent or prurient interest". Meaning also "might not".<br><br>There's a thread here in the Forum Features area about a girl with cleavage displayed in a picture on the front page of dslreports.com.<br>Some thought the girl was underage, some thought it was borderline (or not so borderline) pornography, and others felt it was just a photograph.<br>That photo <i>might</i> be of an underage girl (how would I know?) and <i>might</i> be considered of erotic or prurient interest. That depends upon the viewer.<br>To me, it was just a photograph-- whether the girl was over 18 or not.</div>That's the point I was getting to: The content that "might" be seen as child pornography may be, for all we know, what is being prosecuted in some child pornography cases. It's a hot button, some people have a low threshhold for what they'll call porn or child porn, it's a headline-maker, so there are rewards to prosecuting it harshly. Even if it's cellphone images sent by one 16-year-old to her friend.<br><br>What people think of when they hear "child pornography" is 8 and 10 and 12 year olds being raped. What is being prosecuted in some child pornography cases may be something vastly different. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://bit.ly/F5Ojd">"I cannot teach him. The boy has no pants."</a></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:21:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23322297</link>
<description><![CDATA[jmorlan posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1570380" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1570380');">GyroCaptain</a>:</small><br><br> P2p is riddled with it. Try downloading "sleeping beauty" by Disney and see what you get. Limewire, emule, etc all have thousands of misnamed video files. </div>Do you know this from personal experience?  What exactly will I see if I accidentally download "Sleeping Beauty?"<br><small>--<br>This is not a rehearsal.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:18:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Framed for child porn 151; by a PC virus</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Framed-for-child-porn-151-by-a-PC-virus-23322103</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1570380" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1570380');">GyroCaptain</a>:</small><br><br>Wow..what rock have you been living under? You say you download porn, from where? CHINA? And what apps? P2p is riddled with it. Try downloading "sleeping beauty" by Disney and see what you get. Limewire, emule, etc all have thousands of misnamed video files.<br><br>You sound like a cop. </div>I'm not a cop, and I'll be declining to describe the rock under which I dwell.<br><br>I get my porn directly from website videos or from rapidshare, megaupload, etc.<br>I don't use torrents or P2P clients.<br>I have no desire to watch the original "Sleeping Beauty" or any kiddie porn file that might go by that name.<br><br> jp10558 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1223778"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> made a statement that child pornography was easy to stumble across when surfing the Internet. But I've never 'stumbled across' any, and in a follow-up post  jp10558 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1223778"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> also said that had never happened to him/her.<br><br>I wouldn't call downloading files from P2P clients 'stumbling across child pornography while doing ordinary surfing on the Internet'. But perhaps you would.<br><br>At any rate, I have no idea what can be downloaded from such places.<br>What I do know is that I've never simply 'stumbled across' child pornography when surfing, even when specifically surfing pornographically-contented websites. This experience was seconded by the very person claiming how easy it was.<br>Therefore, I'm casting doubt on the validity of that original statement.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:56:32 EDT</pubDate>
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