george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit |  Supercomputer!
I have been toying with ideas on building a "supercomputer". I am some what familiar with computers and stuff but I am unsure if what I am thinking is more like science-fiction:
Build a server type rack in a closet that has been fitted with proper ventilation and cooling.
Inside the server rack build 4 quad core AMD processor mobo's with 8GB RAM each (Probably DDR2).
In a different part of the rack place 4 hard drives 2 1TB 7200RPM drives and 2 150GB+/- SSD's. (1 SSD is for the operating system)
Run all this power remotely from another room with a laptop base (no monitor on the laptop) and use remote on-the-wall Monitors.
Where I get a little fuzzy is the possibility of connecting the "closet mobo's" in a kind of dasiy chain and run just one video/sound/internet card from them and being able to control all this from a remote unit and make it all work as "one unit".
Is this a pipe dream or is it feasible? (not smoking anything  )
George
Edit: If I am unclear please ask pointed questions and I will try to answer them.
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whymeintrouble
Premium
join:2001-06-20
Woodridge, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
2 edits | a KVM should work for you for remote control. you'd probably have to control it via ethernet....I'm sure they have them out there, just never played with one
but i'm sure this KVM wouldn't be cheap  anywhere near cheap!... I'd suggest purchasing mobo's with onboard everything, this way you don't have to have graphics cards, etc eating up more electricity than necessary. just make sure the ventilation is good in the closet(not sure how big your closet is). things can get kinda warm, especially with season changes where you might not be running the A/C yet, but it is still 65+ outside.
good luck sounds like a fun little project. |
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Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
1 edit | reply to george357
Um...what are you planning on doing with it?
You'll need specific software to have them behave as a cluster (which is what 'one unit' means), something like Microsoft's HPC or some linux distro that can handle it.
Either that or have specifically tasked software that will run as a 'grid', each system working independently and controlled by one of the systems.
Just building a 'supercomputer' with no idea of what kind of tasks you want to be able to run isn't going to get much farther than having some beefy hardware doing nothing.
Edit:
Sorry, just to address the issues presented, hardware-wise.
The processors and memory should be fine.
However, the method you have for the harddrives leaves a nice big 'how'.
For that sort of arrangement you'd need a system to work as a 'controller', most likely as an iSCSI target. Then the motherboards you have would have to support iSCSI booting so you can mount the virtual drives from the get-go.
No, you wouldn't be able to 'daisy chain' the mobos in any way that I can think of. (Sound, maybe) Easiest and cheapest method would be to set them all up with Remote desktop / VNC and use the laptop to remote into each individual system.
However, if you are going to have some sort of 'controller', you could just remote into that. |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to whymeintrouble
Thanks whymeintrouble, I will look into KVM and I like the idea of the on-board everything too, will see where that takes me. I am actually a little surprised that this is a feasible plan, so far so good.
George
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Spaceway III HN 9000 Pro+ Plan 1.6 Mbps Down. Acer 5000 series laptop w/AMD 64 bit Turion 1.6ghz, 1gb Ram, 90gb HD. Windows XP SP3, Ubuntu 7.10 Dual OS. FireFox 3.5 |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to george357
I've used Avocent remote KVMs where video, mouse kb goes through a single ethernet cable -- they work OK, but are a little (?!) pricey. (ours had 4 and 5 digit price tags)
As long as you're within cabling distance (25 - 50ft) even punching a hole in the wall is probably cheaper. 
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Jahntassa
Jahntassa no apologies necessary, I do a lot of very different stuff. Some 3DCAD, starting to think about video clip editing for web ads, some gaming (probably sorta light on that), of course the web stuff, and DVR/PVR TV shows. I think one of the biggest things about this is the ability to do whatever I want simultaneously. The wall monitors will probably number around 3-5.
I guess the biggest issue will be figuring out a "controller" because if at all possible I would want the entire system to run as a single computer (Cluster).
George
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Spaceway III HN 9000 Pro+ Plan 1.6 Mbps Down. Acer 5000 series laptop w/AMD 64 bit Turion 1.6ghz, 1gb Ram, 90gb HD. Windows XP SP3, Ubuntu 7.10 Dual OS. FireFox 3.5 |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC | reply to aurgathor
auragathor I will be within the 30-50ft range and could run the cabling through the floor along a joist and back in the main operation room. |
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Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
| reply to george357
You need to start from the software perspective. There's nothing we can tell you until you determine what software you're going to run and how it works in a multi-system environment.
As far as i'm aware, very few things outside of some math processing software and software designed for a specific task (render farms, for example) will work in the environment you're trying to make.
Off the bat it sounds like you want to be able to process a multitude of different projects at once, and use multiple monitors to view them.
In that case you would want to set up four different systems, four different monitors, and a mouse / keyboard on a KVM that would let you switch control between those systems.
Or, again, remote into each one from a single control surface. |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC | As far as software if you are refering to OS, I am partial to Windows but I am currently learning my way around Ubuntu as well. Is this what you are asking |
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Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
1 edit | No, not OS. Software.
Word
Renderman
Mathematica
Windows media center.
The software that will actually do things on these systems. Without knowing what software you're going to run (what you want these systems to actually DO), there is no way to answer anything.
Yes, you can 'cluster' windows servers together, but it doesn't do any good unless you have something you're going to run 'on' the cluster, like High Availability virtual machines, or folding @ home.
Edit:
I do recall, some time ago, someone used a linux build to create a cluster of 20 or so computers to play Unreal on. But again, that was made for a specific purpose with very specific software. |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Oh Ok,
Probably looking at AutoCad 10, Google Sketch Up 7, Punch Home design software, Audacity, Media center or a good equivalent, maybe MS's Visual Basic, Adobe's latest suite, MS Office ultimate, that's all that comes to mind right now, does this give ya an idea of where I am coming from?
George
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Spaceway III HN 9000 Pro+ Plan 1.6 Mbps Down. Acer 5000 series laptop w/AMD 64 bit Turion 1.6ghz, 1gb Ram, 90gb HD. Windows XP SP3, Ubuntu 7.10 Dual OS. FireFox 3.5 |
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Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
| In which case you're probably going to want to go over to the Software forum, or even the All things *nix forums and ask them how you would accomplish such things. I can't think of an OS or method for doing what you want (setting up four computers to operate under one control surface).
Otherwise you could setup the five systems (four processors and one storage processor) to run independently, and again, run the laptop as a remote desktop endpoint for all four. They wouldn't operate as 'one' system, but you could use one keyboard / mouse for all of them, though performance would probably take a hit due to the nature of RDP. |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Ok I will drop a post over there and see what I come up with.
Thanks.
Any other comments/ideas anyone has post away, this is getting more interesting by the minute.
George
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Spaceway III HN 9000 Pro+ Plan 1.6 Mbps Down. Acer 5000 series laptop w/AMD 64 bit Turion 1.6ghz, 1gb Ram, 90gb HD. Windows XP SP3, Ubuntu 7.10 Dual OS. FireFox 3.5 |
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asdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to george357
It's an intriguing idea but there is no straightforward way to simply run bunches of off the shelf hardware as a single machine to use as you would a general purpose computer with everyday software. There is a reason why this sort of thing(clustering) isn't really done outside of a few research projects at universities and such.
Firstly I think you are probably grossly overestimating the amount of computing power that you need. Maybe you will want to crunch some video while doing something else. This is where quad cores come in and maintain a more responsive system. Are you really, though, going to be doing so many things simultaneously like video editing while doing cad design while gaming? You might switch between them but actually doing it all simultaneously is less likely.
If you really need that level of power, and a standard quad core setup isn't enough, then I think you need to stick to something that is more feasible like a dual processor workstation type setup.
I think jahntassa is right. If you are needing to have machines running 24/7 for multiple particular applications(cad, video editing) you probably need to create a dedicated machine for each use rather than trying to create a cluster and turn it into a general purpose desktop. |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
·HughesNet Satellit..
| This idea is probably more about the intriguing part, and more about want rather than need. It is just something I got in my head the other day and has been gnawing at me since. That said from my experience it takes a while for video to compile after it has been edited on the machine in my sig line. Seems to take some juice to render 3D as well, it would be cool to be able for these things to be going on in the background while I watch the latest shows or maybe game a little or web surf without any slowdown. The idea of 3-4 computers set-up for each specific purpose would possibly suffice but where would the fun be in that 
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Spaceway III HN 9000 Pro+ Plan 1.6 Mbps Down. Acer 5000 series laptop w/AMD 64 bit Turion 1.6ghz, 1gb Ram, 90gb HD. Windows XP SP3, Ubuntu 7.10 Dual OS. FireFox 3.5 |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| There's a thing called "KISS" principle -- Keep It Simple Stupid".
There are some good reasons why real supercomputers cost so much. I'm not sure if any of the usual server OSs support clustering, but if you need lots of computing power, just get an off the shelf dual CPU system and equip it with 2 quad cores (or 6 or 8 cores, if available) and add more systems via a KVM if one such box is not enough.
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And the winner is: |
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Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
| reply to george357
said by george357  : That said from my experience it takes a while for video to compile after it has been edited on the machine in my sig line. Seems to take some juice to render 3D as well, it would be cool to be able for these things to be going on in the background while I watch the latest shows or maybe game a little or web surf without any slowdown. You would really want to contact the makers of that software, they -might- have a way for you to offload the rendering and compiling to a 'slave' system, in which case it would be able to shunt the processing to one of your other systems. |
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asdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to george357
If the concern is about the sluggish performance of your acer laptop with single core turion I think the most reasonable approach would be to either build or buy a standard quad core desktop. No it isn't as sexy sounding and you have a dream of running lots of monitors and so on but based on what you have said about your actual needs a quad core desktop should give a considerably better experience than what your laptop gives. If you want a multiple monitor setup that can be accommodated too, though I think 5 monitors is excessive. We can discuss this in more detail if you wish. There are numerous options in a pretty good range of prices. If you reach a point where you are seriously considering spending money on this then that would be the sensible direction to take. |
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george357
join:2009-09-18
Hot Springs, NC
·HughesNet Satellit..
| My main question was the possibility of what I was imagining, application is a very possible in the future but not anytime soon.
As far as a good quad doing what I want done, I have no doubts it would work at least with a workstation type set-up, but anyone can set that up and lots of people have those, I really like custom, and if I am going to customize something why not go all out, the system outlined here would probably have a lifespan well beyond the average computer if properly maintained.
As far as the monitors go I would think at least 3 satellites of 24" size with a main 40-50" center monitor (probably a TV fitted for dual use), with this set-up I could monitor the progress of 3 different things while doing whatever on the main screen.
Jahntassa: you bring up a good point about the software manufacturers I will look into that just to see what is available.
George
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Spaceway III HN 9000 Pro+ Plan 1.6 Mbps Down. Acer 5000 series laptop w/AMD 64 bit Turion 1.6ghz, 1gb Ram, 90gb HD. Windows XP SP3, Ubuntu 7.10 Dual OS. FireFox 3.5 |
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norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband
| reply to george357
I find this an interesting breath of fresh air.
somebody wanting to step out on a limb.
For me listening to your comments, this is what I'd do....I'm no expert though.
Mobo - dual processor setup, preferably with 3 vid card slots.
3 cards could give you options for game rendering, cad rendering etc, as all the cards can be setup specific to your needs for the software.
SSD for pagefile work
Raid card may be worth looking at too, or a remote HDD enclosure running raid
Power would need to look at dual setup some how I'd think.
I'm only a beginner, but if you want to spend the money, maybe look at the system with 24 SDD'd for speed? (Can't find the link right now)
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke |
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