bossman83920
@cablevision.com
| Blown out Ballasts
I bought (25) 277 volt outside fixtures for my building. In 4 months 18 of the 25 fixtures have blown out the ballasts.
PSEand G checked commercial power outside and all is good.
I suspect my step up transformers did this but I have two of them. Half the lights on one half on the other. I have a hard time believing both xformers did the same thing to the fixtures.
If I call a company to test the Step up transformers I have a feeling that at the time of the test they will test good.
Any suggestions?? |
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Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN | what brand and age are those ballast? Were they new once you bought them?
What kind of fixtures are they going in? Have you checked the voltage on the site yourself with a DMM to see what it is registering? |
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dgilbert
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
clubs: | reply to bossman83920
are they made in China? sounds to me like you bought some crap and it is failing.
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Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine! |
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com
| reply to Killa200
The fixtures are RAB wallpack WP2's....it's the ballasts in these fixtures I'm speaking about and they were brand new and I have to say VERY nice units. RAB is a great fixture.
Total burn time was about 4 months. They didn't all go out at once. It was like one a week over 4 months. Sometimes 2 a week and sometimes a few weeks would go by and none went out. But as of now....18 of 25 are out.
The manufacturer is working with me on this trying to see if there was a particular "LOT" of bad units.
In fairness to the manufacturer....if he tells me that there are no particular high amount of failures...I have to take him on his word and look closer at my xformers. |
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com | reply to Killa200
Yes it was 277 volts........ |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to bossman83920
How are the ballasts failing? Are you testing them? RAB has cut sheets with winding resistance.
Are they the proper size? Are they the proper lamp? Water intrusions?
It's highly unlikely on a 277V lighting ckt, but VD could be an issue.
It sounds like they could be wired incorrectly. What's the ignite time on these fixtures?
As mentioned, most replacement transformers are Chinese crap. Even the "nice" ones are Mexican crap.
"Howard" ballast are still made in the USA. They aren't that much more than the crappy ones.
Hate to burst your bubble, but RAB is a "ehhhh" fixture. They certainly aren't Hubbell.
I doubt seriously that it's your building transformer(s). I'd be dissecting those fixtures first.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010 |
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com
| reply to bossman83920
Thanks for the info...
I'm just a manager of the CEO of the building. I'm not an electrician. The electrician said he simply "replaced" the existing fixtures and utilized the existing wiring. 2 wires and an equipment ground.
No water intrusion. They started "acting up" by taking a long time to start up. Some would come on right away...(in the beginning all would come on within minutes of darkness) then alot of them started taking hours over the other ones to start. Some then started to start, would light, then go out...this cycle would last for hours till they finally started up.
Then after a while (weeks) they just stopped. We pulled 3 down and found 3 burnt/fried ballsts in the fixtures.
We havent called the electrician back cause we have been caught up hoping the failures would stop so we could call him once and not back and forth. He needs a bucket truck and it's expensive each time he comes.
Weve checked our breakers, called PSE and G and all that was found to be good. There is a mulching business next door that uses heavy machinery to gring up wood into mulch. We thought maybe he was throwing spikes cause were off the same line but we cant prove it. When PSeg tested outside, we tested good at that moment...but he mulch's at night. Dont really know if he has anything at all to do with it but were off the same pole.
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com | reply to nunya
Are they wired correctly you asked...
I'm not being funny when I'm asking your help but there are only two wires...(and the equiptment ground) How could anyone screw that up?  |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to bossman83920
No. There are many, many wires. Especially if the ballasts are quad tap. There's a large capacitor that also gets wired in.
I've seen guys screw it up many times. I have a bucket truck in my arsenal, so I do a lot of HID lighting.
From what you are describing, it sounds like yours got screwed up. They should strike an arc immediately, and ignite within a minute (depending on ambient temp).
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010 |
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com
| reply to bossman83920
I have to check with the electrician but I believe these lights were all wired from the factory and just had tails. The electrician did not have to do any wiring outside of tieing it in.
Could have been a factory miss-wire??
Why would it take months to fail? |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to bossman83920
I can't recall ever meeting a re-ballast kit that was "factory wired". I'm not saying they don't exist. I've never encountered them.
Are these MH or HPS? The ballasts are not interchangeable.
Honestly, spikes and surges aren't going to have too much of an affect on these fixtures. You're probably barking up the wrong tree there.
Here's what a typical ballast kit looks like (overpriced, just an example):
»www.buylighting.com/175-Watt-Met···mh-5.htm
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010 |
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com
| reply to bossman83920
This was a complete fixture. Brand new fixtures out of the box. Not a ballast replacement. The 3 units that first went bad we replaced the whole unit.
Now we have the other 18 that no longer work and were trying to determine what blew them out before we replace them again and blow those out. 175 watt Metal Halide 277 volt RAB WP 2 security lights. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
 ·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to bossman83920
said by bossman83920 :
I suspect my step up transformers did this but I have two of them. Why do you have 'step-up' transformers? Very untypical for a building to step-up 208V to 277V for lighting. Most buildings I know of that use 277V lighting have 480/277V service (or larger with step-down to 277V).
Even then, I would have a hard time seeing why the tranformers would be the cause of any problems. I suspect a bad batch of ballasts. |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to bossman83920
Like WK says, the service to the building is probably 480/277 from the utility transformer (usually pad mounted outside) and then you supply the in-building transformer(s) for 240/120 or 208/120.
If you are replacing the entire fixture, then it's pretty obvious you got some bad fixtures. They should be under warranty. I can't say anything too bad about RAB fixtures. They are on the "lower end" of quality (and price) for commercial applications. I've installed them, along with many other brands. There is a general "cheesiness" about them, but that's to be expected for the price difference.
I would call RAB and tell them you want to cash in the warranty. If they want to send a rep out to collect or examine the fixtures and installation, I would certainly let them (and get their input on the situation).
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010 |
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bossman83920
@cablevision.com
| reply to bossman83920
LOL...I'm probably using the wrong terminology. I see on these indoor pad mounted transformers 480/something.....Your right they are probably step down transformers not step up. But either way the fixtures are 277 volt.
I was thinking the x-formers step up the voltage to 277...but I'm not an electrician by any means.
Someone from RAB is supposed to get in contact with me soon...but I have been torn and stuck on the idea that maybe our building electric caused this. We don't have any other electrical issues except for these brand new fixtures not working.
Hopefully RAB will help. It was a 5K investment in these lights and were completly baffeled over whats happened.
Thank you guys for all your input on the matter.
I'll loop back with you. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | reply to bossman83920
This is what you installed?
»www.rabweb.com/common/catalog/pages/WP2G.pdf |
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Loco
Premium
join:2002-11-09
So Cal | reply to bossman83920
Becareful with those things, bud....you may get hurt. |
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Willy
Premium
join:2000-09-24
USA | reply to bossman83920
Your electrician probably used the wrong tap lead.
This fixture probably has 120,208,240, &277 volt taps.
I'll bet he wired it wrong.
Could be a bad batch but I doubt it. |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| That could be. Most commercial lighting comes prewired at "x" voltage. If your fixtures were prewired at a different voltage than 277, then WOOPSIE. That's a very rookie mistake, so I doubt it. Plus most of the time it comes pre'd at 277, since that's the most common lighting voltage on commercial buildings. |
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Willy
Premium
join:2000-09-24
USA | I'd put my money on miss-wired before 18 bad ballasts, but who knows. I hope he finds out because Rab will compensate them for bad ballasts but not for a wiring mistake. |
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