bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
|  [northeast] Comparison of FiOS Broadband Internet to Comcast Bla
Howdy. My wife is really putting on the pressure to switch high-speed Internet service, so I'm back considering switching to FiOS.
- I've currently got a 802.11n wireless router, and I understand that FiOS only provides a 802.11g wireless router. I understand also that there is a way to bridge the two, wiring my better wireless to their MoCa compatible router. Is that the case? (I need a couple more wired connections anyway. How many wired ports are in the router FiOS typically provides? Or should I plan on buying a hub?) Essentially, can I rest assured that switching to FiOS won't result in my 802.11n wireless devices experiencing a degradation in speed???
- I have Comcast Blast! service.... What can I reasonably expect in terms of improvement (or degradation) with regard to Internet service by switching to FiOS 25 Mbps/15 Mbps? |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
 ·Bay Area Internet ..
1 edit | Re: [northeast] Comparison of FiOS Broadband Internet to Comcast
said by bicker  :I understand also that there is a way to bridge the two, wiring my better wireless to their MoCa compatible router. Your choices come down to this:
•Coax install and Actiontec router, you can bridge it per instructions in the FAQs.
•Coax install and Westell router, bridging will be problematic.
•Cat5 install. You can use your router as primary. If you also get FIOS-TV, you will still need the VZ router behind yours for the STBs.
Bottom line, request cat5 between the ONT and the router, use your router as primary. All this is covered in this FAQs:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations
Turn off the wireless in the VZ router to ensure it does not interfere with your router's signal. You won't see any degradation in wireless speed.
No comparison with Comcast internet. No slowdowns. You get full speed all the time. A number of posters have reported that 25/15 is being provisioned at 25/25, but not everyone seems to be getting that. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
1 edit | Thanks for that reply, and the pointer to the FAQ. While the FAQ is far better than it was the last time I read it (must have been a year ago), it still reads such that only a network techie can understand it, and I'm not a network techie.
One question about one word in your reply... the word "request". That typically implies a choice on the part of the person you're making the request to. Cannot I "specify" a Cat5 install? What if they say 'no'? Or worse, if they don't say anything, and then the installer refuses?
I've checked the FAQ and I don't see any photos of the ONT showing its connection ports. That would help me understand better I think. Found one on Google... looking at it now. |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
1 edit | That typically implies a choice on the part of the person you're making the request to. Cannot I "specify" a Cat5 install? What if they say 'no'? Or worse, if they don't say anything, and then the installer refuses?
If the cat5 is ready / in place between the ONT and where the router goes, some/most installers will go along. Some will swear it's not possible or won't do it for whatever reason, but it's no big deal. Let them do their thing, verify it's working and after they leave, you can request Vz to switch you on their end and you can connect the cat5, etc yourself (per the FAQs). |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | There is no Cat5 running between my basement and my loft.
From what you're saying, though, it sounds like that means that Verizon won't put the router in my loft. That's unacceptable. |
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nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY | The FiOS router can go anywhere you want it, but it needs a physical cable (coax or CAT5) to connect to the ONT.... |
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PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
East Northport, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| said by nycdave :The FiOS router can go anywhere you want it, but it needs a physical cable (coax or CAT5) to connect to the ONT.... Ahem. needs coax or if you want an ethernet connection then you have to CAT5 AND coax.
--
I'm not as good as I once was
but I'm as good once
as i ever was. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | What do you mean by that? Why would one want to have a Cat5 connection from the ONT to the router? |
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PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
East Northport, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Ok, Some people may want to have their personaly configured router connected firstfor the data connection. If so you need to have the data provisioned over ethernet not the coax. But you still need to have a MOCA bridge for the TV applications to work - ie the guide widgets VOD.
Most and i do mean MOST people are perfectly happy with the performance of the VZ supplied router (Actiontec or WEstell)
The standard install is for the router to use the coax connection.
--
I'm not as good as I once was
but I'm as good once
as i ever was. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Geez.... and this guy made it to be a manager at Verizon?
I guess I'm back to square one tomorrow. |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| reply to bicker
said by bicker :While the FAQ is far better than it was the last time I read it (must have been a year ago), it still reads such that only a network techie can understand it, and I'm not a network techie. You're welcome to leave specific feedback on how the FAQ can be improved. The feedback button is at the bottom of the FAQ.
That said, if you're going to go about messing with bridging the VZ router, or replacing it with your own router, neither of which is supported by VZ, then there should be at least some minimum level of understanding networking. The FAQ does try to identify which options are easy and which are more difficult. You're also welcome to ask for help by posting in the forum.
said by bicker :One question about one word in your reply... the word "request". That typically implies a choice on the part of the person you're making the request to. Cannot I "specify" a Cat5 install? What if they say 'no'? Or worse, if they don't say anything, and then the installer refuses? Understand that VZ's standard install is coax only. Coax is usually already in place. It is faster and cheaper to use what is in place, than pull new cable.
In the past it VZ would only connect cat5 if it was already in place between the ONT and the router, otherwise they would charge for running it. VZ seems to be somewhat more liberal about this lately, however that may be due to more "Just-Inside" installs of the ONT, which means it is a simple matter of using a cat5 patch cable if the JI-ONT and router are located together. If running cat5 is more work for the installer than using coax, you are not likely to get it.
said by bicker :Why would one want to have a Cat5 connection from the ONT to the router? It all depends on what you are trying to do. If all you want to do is run your router as a 802.11n Wireless Access Point (WAP) behind the Actiontec, then use option 3:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I use my wireless or an extra router along with the Verizon provided router?
If you want to use your own router as primary router, then the choices become more complicated.
•The easiest way to run your own router as primary is with a cat5 connection between the the ONT and your router.
•If cat5 between the ONT and your router is not practical, then you need to consider to coax connection options (options 1-5 in the tradeoffs FAQ).
You have not indicated if you are considering FIOS-TV or not.
That adds an additional complication, since you need a coax connection from the ONT to your main splitter, and then from your main splitter to each of the STBs (for TV) and from the Actiontec back to the main splitter for the MOCA LAN (VOD, guide data to the STBs).
said by bicker :I've checked the FAQ and I don't see any photos of the ONT showing its connection ports. That would help me understand better I think. VZ uses several different ONTs. The following link is an Alcatel 611.
»Re: How-to: make ActionTec MI424-WR a network bridge |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to bicker
said by bicker :What do you mean by that? Why would one want to have a Cat5 connection from the ONT to the router? By having an Ethernet connection that gives you the option of using your own router or if the FIOS router haas problems, it give you the option of connecting your own router while you wait for a replacement, so you have minimal downtime. that is the best reason for having an Ethernet connection to the ONT, for minimal downtime. You can always just hang your router off the FIOS router and you typically won;t have any problems. I never did and I use one to three terabytes of data a month. Having my routers WAn port connected to the LAn port of the FIOS router caused me zero problems and no issues. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| reply to More Fiber
Do We Need Cat5???????
said by More Fiber :said by bicker :While the FAQ is far better than it was the last time I read it (must have been a year ago), it still reads such that only a network techie can understand it, and I'm not a network techie. You're welcome to leave specific feedback on how the FAQ can be improved. The feedback button is at the bottom of the FAQ. Thanks, and I have, about a year ago, and it is much improved. It still isn't going to really help those of us who don't know much about networking. It is just written at too high of a level. I cannot help improve it, because I don't know enough about the technology to dumb it down without removing the vital information.
said by More Fiber :That said, if you're going to go about messing with bridging the VZ router, or replacing it with your own router, neither of which is supported by VZ, then there should be at least some minimum level of understanding networking. I don't believe that that is true. I believe that assistance can be provided to bridge in understanding between people who need to know but don't, and what they need to know. What most people know is "Wireless-G = slow; Wireless-N = faster; I want Wireless-N". And what they would hope for is enough assistance to get there. To be fair, no one is obligated to provide that assistance, suitable at that low level of networking knowledge. Folks (like myself) can ask, get frustrated by our lack of knowledge and understanding, and then move on. No harm, no foul.
I'll read that one over again, much more carefully.
said by More Fiber :If you want to use your own router as primary router, then the choices become more complicated. This is one of those things I think that confuses us networking neophytes. That sounds like something good, but we really have no idea (until it is too late, typically) why we would need our own router as primary instead of secondary. The explanations of things like that in the FAQ actually use terminology and explanations that themselves require their own FAQs. I think 90% of the folks who need the information in the FAQ and read the FAQ will just walk away confused and worried. Most of them won't bother to try to find some way of getting the explanations of the explanations, as I am.
said by More Fiber :You have not indicated if you are considering FIOS-TV or not. I'm considering all three services.
said by More Fiber :That adds an additional complication, since you need a coax connection from the ONT to your main splitter, and then from your main splitter to each of the STBs (for TV) and from the Actiontec back to the main splitter for the MOCA LAN (VOD, guide data to the STBs). So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)
-- ONT ---- splitters
|-------- kitchen STB
|-------- bedroom STB
|-------- splitter in Loft
|----------- router
|----------- CableCARD device
So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.
So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| I have one more idea.... will they let us have two routers?
-- ONT -- router1 -- splitters
|-------- kitchen STB
|-------- bedroom STB
|-------- splitter in Loft
|----------- router2
|----------- CableCARD device
|
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to bicker
said by bicker :[Thanks, and I have, about a year ago, and it is much improved. It still isn't going to really help those of us who don't know much about networking. It is just written at too high of a level. I cannot help improve it, because I don't know enough about the technology to dumb it down without removing the vital information. That's the beauty of the FiOS forum. If you have an idea that you may want to do something that's outside of the standard install from VZ, then you can ask in the forum if it's possible. Sometimes the answer is Yes, go see this FAQ, which is a step-by-step procedure to accomplish it based on a recommendation.
When you aren't sure what you want, the Options FAQ is useful because it gives an overview of what's possible, yes with many options it can be confusing, but it might help settle out enough in your mind to go back and ask the question about what you think you want to do.
For the vast majority of VZ's 13 million FiOS customers, their standard install and equipment works fine. But, as aaronwt and others have said, a cat5 connection (and coax if TV service is involved) gives you more flexibility down the road when you do think "hey, how do I ...".
As always, there's plenty of people in this forum who can help answer your questions. |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| reply to bicker
said by bicker :I have one more idea.... will they let us have two routers? VZ probably won't supply you with a second router (without charging for it).
But you can do what you're suggesting. See this FAQ:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax?
The second router will not have it's own internet connection. It will function only as a MOCA LAN bridge converting from ethernet over coax back to cat5. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| reply to bicker
What Channel?
I'm back for more advice. After reading the FAQ »Wireless Networking Forum FAQ »What channel should I choose for my wireless network? I'm left with this question: What channel should I configure my router to use? The FAQ says do my best to stay 5 channels away from anyone else... well here's what I'm up against: (See attached »/r0/download/1···.HTM.zip .)
As you can see, it's kinda crowded in the airwaves here... is there any logic to how you would select which channel to go to? |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| In looking at the list, I don't see anyone on channels 3, 4 or 5 or on channels 7, 8 or 9.
I would tend to try channel 4 or channel 8, since there is no one on the immediately adjacent channels. Stay away from channel 1, there are two strong signals there. |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to bicker
Many of those are relatively weak signals. You can safely ignore them. What threshold? Not sure. Trial and error. Try 25% for start.
Are you near a commercial area that has free wifi? Sure is a boatload with no WEP/WPA. Too bad they're not strong. Then again, if yours goes out, maybe there's your backup with a reflector on your antenna. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | reply to More Fiber
I believe those two strong signals on Channel 1 are my own.
From what the FAQ said, the signal is four channels wide, so if someone is on 1, and someone is on 6, going to channel 4 is going to earn me interference from both, right? |
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