Justice4All
@teksavvy.com
|  I had enough! Let's go out on the street!! STOP THROTTLING!!
I don't know about you guys but I had enough of this throttling S***!!!
I went to my home country this summer (Eastern Europe) and I was shocked to notice that not only my parents are paying the equivalent of about 30 dollars per month for a 30 Mbps connection but it is unlimited traffic too and my uTorrent downloads went all the way up to 4.5 Mbps!!!!!!!!!!!! The same exact torrents that are crawling in Toronto around 30 kbs.
How about if I tell you that in the same price they get TV channels, the main landline and...... 2 cellphones!!! with free incoming calls! BTW, this is another stupid thing in here... why would you be charged if somebody else is calling your phone???
So I say I had enough and you probably did too so let's do something more than the regular, very nice approach of "submitting a letter to CRTC and wait for them to say they don't really care". Let's go out on the street and ask for our rights. It might sound dumb and primitive for some but there have been more rights that have been won in the street than at the round table.
Let's go out and scream our disgust and dissatisfaction!!! |
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slimeblob
join:2008-08-25
| reply to Justice4All
Re: I had enough! Let's go out on the street!! STOP THROTTLING!!
I'm afraid it would have to be an organized manifestation. If I were to get out and yell right now I'd just get arrested.
Either way I don't think the CRTC would do anything even if twenty thousand people manifested. They've been lying publicly without shame and so we're at a point where public opinion doesn't even matter anymore.
I understand your frustration, I really do.
But personally I'm not going to go out and get into trouble trying to do something about it when I know full well it's going to fail. I'm just going to leave this lame country... at least as soon as I've figured out a good location (and learned a 4th language, if applicable).
I'm sorry. I just don't see an alternative. |
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dbsanfte
join:2005-03-15
Montreal, QC | reply to Justice4All
We Canadians don't do such things. We subscribe instead to the UN philosophy of strongly-worded letters, backed up by yet more strongly-worded letters. It has accomplished much for us. |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to Justice4All
Some ISPs have some secret strategy. Unfortunatly, anyone fighting against throttling without their permission is labeled as working against them. (makes one wonder which side they really are on).
So on the one hand, the next challenge cannot come from independent ISPs, it needs to cover *customers* of both Sympatico and independent ISPs, (the CRTC will insist that its ruling will apply equally to Sympatico and independents), and on the other hand, those ISPs who want to appear to be fighting the cause are against citizens taking such initiatives, and yet, there has been no word on whether they are even thinking of a challenge. |
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urright
@teksavvy.com
| reply to Justice4All
I'm for it if they want to slow our traffic well slow theirs if you catch my drift. Lets physically do something to make them get the picture. Over 10000 people signed the dissolve the CRTC petition, that's a good amount of legs to slow down traffic for sure. The more supporters the less likely for arrest, and if so so be it. |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Videotron
| said by urright :
Over 10000 people signed the dissolve the CRTC petition, that's a good amount of legs to slow down traffic for sure. The more supporters the less likely for arrest, and if so so be it. A signature on an online petition takes almost no effort and can be done from anywhere around the world. I doubt even 5% of the people who signed would show up to a real-world meeting. |
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Dissillusion
@ncf.ca
| reply to Justice4All
There is another option, short term pain for long term gain. I have suggested it, but no one seems to be up for it.
If enough people en mass would drop their broadband and return to dial-up for a few months, I think that the incumbents would realize that the customer is the one who has the power.
It would have to be in the hundreds of thousands to work, so there is no way it is going to happen.  Most people, as it was suggested to me, pinch their nose and still go with the lesser of two evils. |
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Shada
join:2007-03-09
Stratford, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Justice4All
over thinking, just have everyone go out and knock over a Bell box in their backyards or on the street. Imagine the costs for them to fix it all and maybe while they are at it we will get some upgraded in the process of replacement.
They can pay me to use my property or they can let me have access to my wholeseller isp for the subsidized cost of my land they are granted. not their last mile when it runs on property they do not own. |
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AkFubar
Resistance is Futile
join:2005-02-28
Toronto Can.
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
2 edits | reply to Dissillusion
said by Dissillusion :There is another option, short term pain for long term gain. I have suggested it, but no one seems to be up for it. If enough people en mass would drop their broadband and return to dial-up for a few months, I think that the incumbents would realize that the customer is the one who has the power. It would have to be in the hundreds of thousands to work, so there is no way it is going to happen. Most people, as it was suggested to me, pinch their nose and still go with the lesser of two evils. As you say I doubt any people would go to dial up. However, people can go to other ISPs away from incumbents. Although in some cases the incumbents still get $ because of resellers and wholesalers agreement, the incumbents would not get as many $ and they don't get to milk you on increases. The best way to impact a provider is just don't buy their product. Lost customers is a topic in boardrooms.
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If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? |
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MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
| reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei  :So on the one hand, the next challenge cannot come from independent ISPs, it needs to cover *customers* of both Sympatico and independent ISPs, (the CRTC will insist that its ruling will apply equally to Sympatico and independents), and on the other hand, those ISPs who want to appear to be fighting the cause are against citizens taking such initiatives, and yet, there has been no word on whether they are even thinking of a challenge. Check your e-mail for a message from me. |
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freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10
| reply to jfmezei
I think a challenge can come from an indie ISP under the right circumstances. If Bell were to actively block services like VoIP, both retail and wholesale clients could petition the CRTC for relief. But as for ITMP's as a whole, as long as there is equity between retail and wholesale, there isn't much that can be done because it isn't predatory. The CRTC's goal is to tailor the ILEC's practices to suit their wholesale customers but rather to ensure they aren't treated worse than retail customers in order to drive customers to the retail products. |
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freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10
| reply to Shada
Yes, I'd also like Hydro to pay me for the post in my yard too and get them of my property, but alas easements and RoW don't work that way. Damaging the equipment isn't going to prompt them to upgrade, they'll just fix the damage and pass on the increased costs to consumers. In the interim, those around you will have interruptions in service that Bell won't have to compensate them for. Everybody loses. |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Justice4All
There's the keyword, equality in the CRTC's opinion. Bell says retail is banned from X protocol and then says wholesale is banned from X protocol. Under the CRTC guidelines, it's fair and equal so everyone loses. Treating both exactly the same is not much better than treating wholesale worse than retail especially since Bell is driven to "shareholder value" vs customer value. |
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EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Montreal, QC
clubs: 
·ELECTRONICBOX
1 edit | reply to Justice4All
I will repeat until I'm blue in the face:
DSL users; you are funding Bell, period.
Nothing will change until you unplug your modem and stop paying for unsatisfactory service.
If the level of dedication to Teksavvy from their clients at this site is any indication of "real world" users, this will not occur.
I spoke with my wallet, and canceled my DSL with Ebox. I was very happy with them for 4-5 years, and hated to do this to them, as they are victims of circumstance.
So suck it up, or cancel your service.
This principle applies to cell phone service as well.
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~ Project Hope ~
Good God! Who's manning the internet?!
When the President does it, that means it is not illegal. -- Richard Nixon |
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slimeblob
join:2008-08-25
| I seem to be going through the same situation. I like TSI but I hate that so much of my money is going to Bell. Obviously I canceled my land line, and when they suddenly increased cell phone costs from 8 dollars a month to 12 I stopped refilling there, too.
I've been considering Electronic Box for years, they just don't seem to have a cable service tier that's right for me at the moment and I still hate the idea of canceling with TSI. When Electronic Box gains its new tier (there's a TPIA review going on right now) I'll reconsider things and maybe make the switch.
For some reason Bell seems to be highly dedicated to pushing customers away. It's mind-boggling... don't they have people in the company to stop this foolishness? I mean, there's a significant number of people willing to leave companies they like and even *pay more money* just so none of it will go to Bell. Things don't get that bad without someone noticing, do they? Or do they truly believe that they can recuperate the money lost from customers that quit by abusing their remaining ones? More will quit, and they'll "have" to abuse the rest even more. it's a vicious cycle. |
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AkFubar
Resistance is Futile
join:2005-02-28
Toronto Can.
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| They are that stupid, they don't care, they feel they are untouchable and they will milk their customer base to keep profits up and grow shareholder value.
The incumbents work very hard greasing the CRTC to keep competition out of the market. If they didn't they would get killed by any number of new companies that offer value.
There just isn't a great deal of choice for most people in Canada because of the influence these companies have on the CRTC which by the way, is a useless tool as far as ordinary Canadians are concerned. 
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If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? |
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Justice4All
@teksavvy.com
| reply to Justice4All
OK, so, you guys think that going on the streets won't help. I think it will at least trigger some media around the situation. I don't think it has been made public enough. It's like the elephant in the room...everybody sees it but no one is saying anything about it.
I already noticed that Canadians don't really do things like this (well excuse me but I've seen a couple of strikes and marches on the streets of downtown Toronto that were far less significant and lot more dumber), however I still think that at this point since the diplomatic way failed, the next step is to show that it isn't just something they can disregard just BECAUSE THEY CAN!!
If you guys don't find this helpful, we can think of other "uncivilized", Eastern European ways of showing them they CAN'T really do whatever they feel like...just think about how good the countries I'm mentioning are in terms of IT....and how smart and "non-conventional" some users can be when they don't agree to certain politics. Why knocking down their hardware from your property when it so much easier to knock down their ...hmm...SERVERS? |
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Shada
join:2007-03-09
Stratford, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to freejazz_RdJ
said by freejazz_RdJ :Yes, I'd also like Hydro to pay me for the post in my yard too and get them of my property, but alas easements and RoW don't work that way. Damaging the equipment isn't going to prompt them to upgrade, they'll just fix the damage and pass on the increased costs to consumers. In the interim, those around you will have interruptions in service that Bell won't have to compensate them for. Everybody loses. Hydro has right of way due to its service is classified as a necessity, like phone and water and so on. I believe Bell was given right of way for obvious reasons as they WERE a phone company only and there for last mile was subsidized.
BUT the Internet is not classified as of yet of being a necessity. Fiber roll out does not improve my phone service. Until it is classified as a necessity then they should Pay for Right of Way like they expect indie ISP's to do.
ALSO by classifying internet service as a necessity it would go squarely against and protect us from ACTA and the 3 strikes rule.
Just my Opinion please give feed back on your thoughts |
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freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10
| Everybody pays the same rates for RoW. There is a well-known supreme court decision stating that everybody has to be treated equally with respect to access and costs for rights of way. Sure, the big guys have an economy of scale because they build to hundreds of homes a year, but they pay the same price to the municipality.
You'll also notice that with utilities, there is a monopoly in the distribution network. There is no competitor to Toronto Hydro connecting to my house, and if I were to buy electricity from someone else, they'd still pay TH the same price. And their prices, while regulated, allow them to guarantee a return.
Frankly, I think the best way to improve broadband would be for municipalities to build a fiber last mile to each area and have a central place where competitors can connect and offer services, but it either isn't a priority for most voters or non-viable because the business case is weak. |
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