 Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
3 edits | I buy the pop density equation but only to a point. Why isn't NYC getting super fast speeds for dirt cheap. They have the population density to make deployment per unit cheap like Hong Kong. If VZ doesn't pony up the speed/price in NYC MDU's then they can't use pop density as an excuse (not that they are, at least in this item). |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| There's the other argument that Hong Kong is a tiny country and thus offering 100 Mbps service to anyhwere in HK (which is what the service offers) is equivalent to LUSFiber offering 100 Mbit peer to peer speeds on all its plans. HKBB is still cheaper per month than an equivalent LUS plan when viewed in that light, but at that point you can add in the density argument and you've got your answer.
As far as the density argument goes in NYC, it appears as though HK is even more dense. Also, NYC does have Cablevision, which isn't too bad all things considered. If Verizon were to lower their price in NYC though to absurdly low rates like HKBB is doing, they'd be pressured to do the same thing in other less dense markets in the name of fairness. Which they can't do. |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Z80
I don't. That excuse is getting old for explaining why every other county is ahead of us.
"As ISPs and defenders of slow American broadband will be quick to tell you, population density helps: the market involved has 16,380 people per square mile – versus 640 in Japan and 80 in the US."
Wash DC 9,581.3 person per Sq mile. Where is the 100 Mbps connections?
New Jersey, Rhode Island, Conencticut, Massachusetts all have population densities higher than Japan. So how come they don't have the speed Japans has? And Rhode Island, Connecticut and Mass are all connected. So once again how come no 100/100 Mbps connections in that region? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to iansltx
said by iansltx:There's the other argument that Hong Kong is a tiny country and thus offering 100 Mbps service to anyhwere in HK (which is what the service offers) is equivalent to LUSFiber offering 100 Mbit peer to peer speeds on all its plans. HKBB is still cheaper per month than an equivalent LUS plan when viewed in that light, but at that point you can add in the density argument and you've got your answer. Its easy and cheap to offer media maximum speeds on your network. What are the speed to websites outside of HK? You mean I can dump 100mbitps continuously onto Level 3 or Sprint or Verizon Business and never see a hickup in speed? |
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Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | reply to BF69
Guess you missed the 2nd 1/2 of my post. |
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 rawgerzThe hell was that?Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | reply to Z80
13 U.S. dollars = 88.7378071 Chinese yuan |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | reply to patcat88
No, out-of-HK speeds are limited to 20 Mbps guaranteed I think. |
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approval from:
I Use Dial 
hottboiinnc
| reply to iansltx
Cablevision only services the Bronx and parts of Brooklyn. The rest of New York City is Time Warner.
In my opinion, the biggest reason you don't see more build and competition in NYC is the agreements made between unions and the city. Everything done in the city has to be done by union workers, which always costs more. And despite the claims, union worksmanship is quite often pretty shoddy because there's not much incentive to do a really good job, because you're not going to get fired. |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·ooma
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
| reply to BF69
said by BF69:Wash DC 9,581.3 person per Sq mile. Where is the 100 Mbps connections? New Jersey, Rhode Island, Conencticut, Massachusetts all have population densities higher than Japan. So how come they don't have the speed Japans has? And Rhode Island, Connecticut and Mass are all connected. So once again how come no 100/100 Mbps connections in that region? I suspect we have more rules and regulations to become a provider in the U.S. I don't think you can just start hanging stuff off telephone poles, or run stuff under city streets. Our culture and government are different.
As for the states you mention, yes they may have higher population densities than Japan. However in my state (Connecticut) the high density cities are often full of urban poor. Outside of the major cities, the population is largely suburban and is probably less dense than Japan for example. I suspect if you ruled out those who make less than 2x the federal poverty level the population wouldn't be quite as dense.
My city has 2 internet providers. AT&T provides DSL and U-Verse (though U-Verse is not available to all). Comcast is also the exclusive cable company.
I don't know if any other cable or phone company can start up in my city and start stringing stuff. My guess is they can't. Without an ability to have legitimate competition, it is unlikely prices will go down substantially.
With limited competition in high density areas, there is another problem, and that is many internet providers who serve high density areas are national or large regional providers. They tend to set a fixed or very similar fee across their entire service area.
I don't know how my state would react if Comcast or AT&T sought to charge lower rates to high population density cities. My guess is our state wouldn't permit it.
Should Verizon charge $2 for 100 mbs internet service in Manhattan, $20 in Brooklyn, $50 in Staten Island, and $100 in the Adirondacks? What state would accept the disparity on the basis of population density?
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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| reply to rawgerz
said by rawgerz:13 U.S. dollars = 88.7378071 Chinese yuan And your point is?
If you are not aware of it, Hong Kong's legal currency is not, and has never been, the yuan. |
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| reply to BF69
Stop using logic! You'll expose the b.s! |
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rawgerzThe hell was that?Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | reply to broccoli
My point was they were going on just exchange rates, unless they mean 13 HK dollars, which I doubt. And the Yen and HKD exchange rates are nearly the same.
Still I figured this would be expensive to own in HK but apparently not. If this were in the USA, and I read correctly, this would cost about $27 a month.
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. |
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| No way it could be 13 HKD/month. That's the average cost of a bus ride.
As a reference, the going price of a 600 square-foot high-rise flat ('condo' in North America) is around 3.5M HKD, or about 450k USD. |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | reply to iansltx
said by iansltx:No, out-of-HK speeds are limited to 20 Mbps guaranteed I think. I don't know about HK - but I'm in Japan right now and have 100mbit service here. To Japanese sites I actually get the promised speed - but for anything outside Japan I'm lucky to get 2mbit.
100mbit sounds nice on paper- but in reality I've had faster service from US ISPs. I guess most Japanese people use mostly Japanese sites so they in essence get the promised speed - but since I use mostly US/international sites - I'm not getting it. |
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rawgerzThe hell was that?Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | reply to BF69
said by BF69:New Jersey, Rhode Island, Conencticut, Massachusetts all have population densities higher than Japan. So how come they don't have the speed Japans has? And Rhode Island, Connecticut and Mass are all connected. So once again how come no 100/100 Mbps connections in that region? Probably most of the Asian countries listed got into telcom when fiber was readily available and were starting fresh, so they went with that.
And here it's basically if it's not broke, don't fix it.
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | reply to nitzan
That's the nice thing about US internet. I can get my 22 Mbps to most places in the US...and, with a decent download manager, most places in the world. Though I visit U.S. sites bandwidth-wise 99% of the time. |
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| reply to iansltx
said by iansltx:If Verizon were to lower their price in NYC though to absurdly low rates like HKBB is doing, they'd be pressured to do the same thing in other less dense markets in the name of fairness. Which they can't do. I don't buy it. It's greed all the way around. I know of FiOS areas that offer 20/20 or 50/50 connections for less than some of their DSL areas. Hell, I'm paying $60/month for 12/1.5 (max for this area -- and 6/1 is actual max I have seen). They are priced per-area already. Pressure means little to them.
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- "Techie" Jim |
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| reply to pandora
I'd pay 100 a month for 100 mbit symmetrical in the Adirondacks |
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| reply to Z80
said by Z80:but only to a point. Why isn't NYC getting super fast speeds for dirt cheap. They have the population density to make deployment per unit cheap like Hong Kong. If VZ doesn't pony up the speed/price in NYC MDU's then they can't use pop density as an excuse (not that they are, at least in this item). because the telcos own your congressman |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to jimbo2150
Show me where you're getting your figures from. While 10/2 FiOS is available via DSLExtreme for $0, it isn't cheaper than DSL, just the same price as 7.1/768.
I know Verizon has faster speed tiers in NYC (25/15 and 35/20 instead of 15/5 and 25/15) but just like in other areas their minimum and maximum pricing is similar. Some areas have $90 50/20 where others have $140 50/20 but in either location DSLExtreme offers it for $100. |
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