 MashikiBalking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
 ·Bright House
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| reply to dave
Re: Town to photograph EVERY car that enters and leaves said by dave:Watch it, sonny, otherwise we'll have you under constant surveillance. Don't forget, us old people invented all this technology. Hey we're handing out free panic whistles. Want one?  I've been dealing with folks in the 70-90's for the last 10 years, and there is one common factor over it all and that really is it.
On the upside, it does make some things easier for the police.
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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| reply to DataRiker
Well, if your technique for discussion is to simply say "it's ridiculous", then there's little point in attempting discussion, is there?
From a legal standpoint, you are of course right that there is no processing-speed-dependent difference.
From the standpoint of the results that can be obtained, there is every difference in the world due to speed. Notice that there's a lot more information about you generally available in the last thrity years? It's not that the raw data were not collected before: it's the processing speed and communication speed that facilitates access.
Hardly disingenuous: it's mere observation. |
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| reply to quatrix
said by quatrix:said by CylonRed:Most of the license plate covers and all fo the license sprays do not work at all. That should be common sense. If our eyes can see it then so can a camera. Exactly. myth already busted. The best way is to "adjust" the plate with some white or off-white tape so that the numbers/letters look different. We had a guy down here do that and got away from like 3 tickets before he was caught - because the camera photo never matched his actual plate number. |
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 Smokey Bearveritas odium paritPremium
join:2008-03-15
Annie's Pub
kudos:4 | reply to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:Firstly let me address something right now, equating taking your picture in PUBLIC with total control is absolutely utterly ridiculous. I agree to disagree. I was opinion I explained very clear the difference incidental - total, but you reproduce my words entirely wrong. In this way any discussion with you is spoiled time.
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1 edit | reply to dave
Let me tell you why its ridiculous.
listening in on someone's conversation (illegally) is wrong. Once or a million times, its wrong.
By your logic, as long as I do it slowly its ok. That is the epitome of disingenuous. |
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4 edits | reply to Smokey Bear
said by Smokey Bear:said by DataRiker:Firstly let me address something right now, equating taking your picture in PUBLIC with total control is absolutely utterly ridiculous. I agree to disagree. I was opinion I explained very clear the difference incidental - total, but you reproduce my words entirely wrong. In this way any discussion with you is spoiled time. sorry
Think about this. I can guarantee you that my city takes more pictures with its red light / speeding cameras in one month than this place will all year.
By your standards this would be worse, no? (they have been around almost a decade)
For the record i absolutely hate redlight cameras, with a passion, but I don't think they have any "control" over anything. |
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davePremium,MVM
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1 edit | reply to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:By your logic, as long as I do it slowly its ok. I never said "it's ok". The point is that the effect on society depends on processing speed. One cop at a red light sometimes - not much overall effect. Everyone under surveillance all the time - big effect. |
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1 edit | said by dave:said by DataRiker:By your logic, as long as I do it slowly its ok. I never said "it's ok". The point is that the effect on society depends on processing speed. One cop at a red light sometimes - not much overall effect. Everyone under surveillance all the time - big effect. Agreed - obviously
But when your that "one" person it really doesn't matter. |
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2 edits | reply to Smokey Bear
Just come to the netherlands, with your own car off-course
»www.verkeerenwaterstaat.nl/engli···ess.aspx
A GPS device, which will record the distance travelled as well as the time spent travelling and the journey made, will be installed in every vehicle. This device will send the information to a collection facility where invoices will be drafted. Before long, motorists will be able to choose a provider offering additional services via this device such as route navigation. The information which is sent via the device will be legally and technically protected. Only the motorist will have access to this information. The authorities will not have access to any journey details and will not be able to track any vehicles. So the privacy of road users will be guaranteed.
Sure |
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PrntRhdPremium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA | We have the same GPS proposal.....by the DMV, but to tax us for miles driven vs gas taxes. Seems the result of high gas prices has been the reduction of gasoline used, so the governments want that shortfall in tax revenue replaced. |
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 Rook008Miles To GoPremium
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY | reply to dave
So what's the effect on society of this town's cameras? |
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 fatnesssubtleJanitor
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1 edit | reply to dave
said by dave:So, I'm demanding these freedoms for 'us'; how can we say that 'they' must not do the same thing? Like it or not, it's a camera-laden world now. It's also a world with finite and sometimes shrinking resources, including revenue. It takes government money to set something like that up, money that comes from taxes. So there's plenty of room for debate on whether to waste the money like that, use it otherwise, save it, or reduce taxes. Your money on the other hand is yours to decide about. So it's not a freedom issue. It's an issue of wasting tax dollars to prop up fear and a false sense of security.
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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| I think whether the people of the town want to spend their money is a matter for them; I don't find that a relevant security issue so much as the freedom issue.
I don't know what Tiburon's local government is like; where I live, we'd approve or deny that sort of thing at annual Town Meeting. According to the Tiburon town web site, the step after approval by council is to hold public hearings. Whether such hearings have a fair chance at stopping the project with sufficient objection or whether they're just window-dressing, I can't tell you.
So: the cost issue is the concern of the eight or nine thosand people that are paying for it. The privacy issue, I think, is everyone's concern. |
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fatnesssubtleJanitor
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| Well I do agree with you about the issue of effect. Citizens all having cameras and taking pictures of whatever they want in public places does not have the same effect as a government taking pictures of all cars (and soon, we can assume, individuals) entering a town. The latter would go right into a database and would be accessible by multiple agencies of multiple levels of government.
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| reply to Rook008
said by Rook008:So what's the effect on society of this town's cameras? obviously that's going to be a purely subjective view.
Here's the story in a nutshell:
said by nokiatech:Jupiter Island Florida has been doing this for quite some time. Every single car off and on the island gets the ALPR treatment. They all display on a large LCD in dispatch and any potential "hits" immediately alert the island PD. That seems to get to the heart of the matter.
They do this same kind of thing at private and semi-private upscale communities like Hilton Head, S.C., Sea Island, Georgia, and no doubt many others.
The police make like they're helping keep the community safer, and the residents feel safer.
But it's mostly just to help keep the riff-raff out.
Unfortunately, the riff-raff must occasionally be allowed inside the community so as to clean the toilets, vacuum the pool, mow the lawn, or trim the hedges.
Being wealthy has its down side. One is still required to sometimes interact with the lower orders.
But as long as the rich know their paid servants, the police, are keeping an eye on such people when on the premises, the cocktails don't entirely lose their flavor.
And since this has been going on in communities for quite some time now, the only real question is why cnet.com chose this particular time and this particular community to call this a story. |
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PrntRhdPremium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA | Cnet chose to run the story now because it is in real time, the Tiburon police dept just proposed to do this this year. |
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 ironwalker World RenownedPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-31
Keansburg, NJ | reply to DownTheShore
said by DownTheShore:said by ironwalker:Growing up in Woodbridge, you don't know the half of it! Do they still have that little kiddie train? Haven't been down there in a few years. Used to work with someone from Keansburg - she would tell tales about what went on there. I've got to imagine that in the wintertime, traffic tickets have to be a major source of town income. Never lived in Woodbridge but I do have relatives there. Yes the boardwalk is still here and better than ever. Huge waterpark across the street now. I go to the batting cages now and then.
I have been here 10yrs and saw 4 cars stopped getting a ticket. They dont stop anyone because its a good ol boy town and there afraid of catching one of there own.
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1 edit | reply to fatness
A few months/years down the Techno-marvel highway, and:
No. No! This is socialism! Let the 'Free Market' handle such important 'Security' needs! Reform government incompetence and waist with nifty Private Sector efficiently, all at a lower cost.
How about a contract with that new Google unit.
What if the occupants actually manage to vacate the wireless-wired "car" somewhere in your town? Where will they window shop?
Do not fear a lapse in Total Tracking: many of them find Google Phone exceptionally convenient.......
Some have even sent in their DNA.......
Who else can offer such seamless integration?
The Future is (a) bright (cold day in April).
[Edit: The FL Turnpike is moving towards a cashless "aware" system...] |
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to PrntRhd
said by PrntRhd:We have the same GPS proposal.....by the DMV, but to tax us for miles driven vs gas taxes. Seems the result of high gas prices has been the reduction of gasoline used, so the governments want that shortfall in tax revenue replaced. so in short while the state wants to praise you for driving less or buying a minimally polluting car that gets 38mph, they now want to kick you in the balls for giving them less gas taxes....
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 Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
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| reply to fatness
said by fatness:said by ironwalker:Our town records every car that enters from the highway. As soon as photographic capabilities advance a bit more, or there's money in the budget, just think: towns can photograph every person that enters the town. Won't that be a great day? too bad one could grow there hair passed the face |
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