| reply to SUMware
Re: Novell Strips BitTorrent DHT Technology From openSUSE I have no idea what a Störerhaftung is, but it certainly sounds like something to be avoided.  |
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kudos:2 | LOL. Agreed. |
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 El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium
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| reply to KodiacZiller
said by KodiacZiller:I have no idea what a Störerhaftung is, but it certainly sounds like something to be avoided. It definitely sounds like something to be avoided.
However I'm surprised OpenSUSE is playing ball so nicely. I realize business interests trump a lot and you don't want to pick an unecessary fight, but you'd think they'd take a slightly more aggressive stance on blanket accusations.
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2 edits | said by El Quintron:I'm surprised OpenSUSE is playing ball so nicely. I realize business interests trump a lot and you don't want to pick an unecessary fight, but you'd think they'd take a slightly more aggressive stance on blanket accusations. What accusations? There are no accusations.
Litigation can potentially be mighty expensive. So why risk it when the Packman repo can lawfully host the complete package? |
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2 edits | said by SUMware:What accusations? There are no accusations. Litigation can potentially be mighty expensive. So why risk it when the Packman repo can lawfully host the complete package? DHT = Copyright Violator.
Sounds pretty accusatory to me.
I'm aware that litigation can be quite pricey, however I'm surprised there isn't a bit more "resistance" to this type of thinking from SUSE.
edit to add: I guess I am asking for a political stance from SUSE here which I probably shouldn't be doing... but again it smacks of guilty until proven innocent... |
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2 edits | said by El Quintron:DHT = Copyright Violator. Sounds pretty accusatory to me. "Novell thought that the application could possibly make openSUSE liable for copyright infringement under German law."
Show us where any legal authority actually stated that Novell, openSUSE, or Transmission was factually accused of any copyright infringement or violation. |
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| He didn't say either was factually accused (whatever that means) of any copyright infringement or violation. Those are your words and you're completely hung up on word usage instead of the issue.
Let it go and move on. |
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kudos:2 | said by No_Strings:He didn't say either was factually accused (whatever that means) of any copyright infringement or violation. said by El Quintron:
DHT = Copyright Violator.
Sounds pretty accusatory to me.
Nope.
said by No_Strings:you're completely hung up on word usage instead of the issue. I posted the issue because I find it very interesting. Again, nobody was accused of anything, Novell merely had a justified legal concern. That's the extent of it. |
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| reply to KodiacZiller
said by KodiacZiller:I have no idea what a Störerhaftung is, but it certainly sounds like something to be avoided.
Störerhaftung = roughly translated (by google), means "Disturber liability" (and we certainly wouldn't want to be a 'disturber', now would we?)
(translated links)
Wikipedia
Law firm of Reichhardt & Schlotz in Stuttgart website (this link specifically refers to the issue of Internet Filesharing)
I can't fault Suse for this, and I don't think it's much of an issue since I believe most Susers are aware of and use the Packman repos. I also wouldn't consider Transmission 'crippled' without DHT, although I do turn it on in my clients (Deluge, Ktorrent and Transmission). |
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kudos:2 | said by Lurkarooski :
I believe most Susers are aware of and use the Packman repos. Correct. It's hard to miss:
Additional Package Repositories |
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| reply to Lurkarooski
said by Lurkarooski :
I can't fault Suse for this, and I don't think it's much of an issue since I believe most Susers are aware of and use the Packman repos. I also wouldn't consider Transmission 'crippled' without DHT, although I do turn it on in my clients (Deluge, Ktorrent and Transmission).
My only real criticism of them is rolling over too easily.
At risk of sounding pedantic how does allowing OpenSUSE to operate with Packman make it any better or worse than offering the DHT enabled client in the first place.
So the IP lobby marches on pushing for a wider criteria for Distributor Liability (which is what I assume the translation meant)
Where does it stop? Should you re-write the OS so that BT clients cease to work at all?
Anyways I think you know where I'm going with this... |
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| I remember when Red Hat couldn't play mp3 files. Ubuntu still doesn't come with Flash or video codecs (I think).
Each distro makes decisions on such things based on the prevailing law and their legal advice. I don't think this is one of those "let's take up arms and storm the gates" kind of issues. |
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| said by No_Strings: Ubuntu still doesn't come with Flash or video codecs (I think). Each distro makes decisions on such things based on the prevailing law and their legal advice. Fair enough
You are correct in the above about Flash, MP3s, WMA and Java. You need to install Ubuntu-restricted-extras in order to have those. |
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| reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:My only real criticism of them is rolling over too easily. Where does it stop? Should you re-write the OS so that BT clients cease to work at all? Anyways I think you know where I'm going with this... I do, and I think most people do as well, but it's a CYA World out there now.
said by No_Strings:Each distro makes decisions on such things based on the prevailing law and their legal advice.
With the likes of the RIAA suing Grannies and Tweeners for the smallest infractions, they have little choice. Imagine what an inviting target Suse/Novell might make, and all the ensuing chaos that could cause. |
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| reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:said by No_Strings: Ubuntu still doesn't come with Flash or video codecs (I think). Each distro makes decisions on such things based on the prevailing law and their legal advice. Fair enough You are correct in the above about Flash, MP3s, WMA and Java. You need to install Ubuntu-restricted-extras in order to have those. Yet those installable bits are still hosted by Canonical infrastructure. I guess the distros just don't want to piss off a few beard lovers by making them click an "agree to this" box at some point during the install.
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kudos:1 | said by firephoto:Yet those installable bits are still hosted by Canonical infrastructure. I guess the distros just don't want to piss off a few beard lovers by making them click an "agree to this" box at some point during the install. All the default installed media apps will prompt to install the codecs upon-demand the first time you attempt to play a MP3 file or view a Flash webpage.
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| said by jdong:said by firephoto:Yet those installable bits are still hosted by Canonical infrastructure. I guess the distros just don't want to piss off a few beard lovers by making them click an "agree to this" box at some point during the install. All the default installed media apps will prompt to install the codecs upon-demand the first time you attempt to play a MP3 file or view a Flash webpage. Right and status of not being totally free is more of the reason than any legal uncertainty.
I don't know where this 'packman' is hosted or who owns it so the reality of this beyond what Novell in Germany wants to portray is a bit vague.
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| said by firephoto:I don't know where this 'packman' is hosted or who owns it so the reality of this beyond what Novell in Germany wants to portray is a bit vague. I think they may be playing both sides of the fence (like most corporations) and hoping they piss off the least amount of users either corporate or individual.
Hence the artificial wall between them and Packman. I can deal with the CYA I find all the fancy footwork a little tiring at times. |
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4 edits | reply to firephoto
said by El Quintron:said by firephoto:I don't know where this 'packman' is hosted or who owns it so the reality of this beyond what Novell in Germany wants to portray is a bit vague. I think they may be playing both sides of the fence (like most corporations) and hoping they piss off the least amount of users either corporate or individual. Hence the artificial wall between them and Packman. I can deal with the CYA I find all the fancy footwork a little tiring at times. Nasty.
Considering all those nice people who provide you with FOSS.
»packman.links2linux.org/
We build software packages to enable users to easily install and remove software on Linux. More specifically, we do so for software that is not shipped as part of distributions or that are shipped as an outdated version.
The site is © 2001-2009 by Marc Schiffbauer and Pascal Bleser.
People of openSUSE: Pascal Bleser
August 9th, 2007
In addition to Packman, Marc Schiffbauer is involved with Linux kernel development and other Linux stuff.
PackMan:FAQ (en)
[opensuse] contrib vs. Packman
»linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-List···920.html
Packman started long before openSUSE existed as a means to offer packages for SuSE Linux that were not part of the distribution. Nowadays it's mostly interesting for all the stuff Novell can't put into the distribution or host in the build service due to license issues like various audio and video codecs.
»linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-List···919.html
Some of the OpenSUSE Members packing for Packman, too. But i thin the big different are the Licenses. Build Service only can host Projects with an free Licence (similar to GPL/LGPL). Packman hosts many Projects with other Licences: w32codecs, libxine1. libdvdcss. This Projects can't hosted by the Build Service. AFAIK
»linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-List···953.html
The Packman's have no plans on merging with Contrib. Mainly because Packman is following a complete different set of rules. For instance you can do version updates of Software in Packman, you cant in Contrib. etc. etc.
»linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-List···954.html
Contrib is a community-driven logical extension of Factory, with all limits applied. (i.e. no codecs, no patented stuff, etc...)
Its is like Ubuntu Universe.
Pacman has no such limitations. Its is like Ubuntu Multiverse. |
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| My original post might have been taken the wrong way due to it being somewhat lacking in detail.
Right or wrong, good or bad, falling back on a "those nice people providing FOSS" type of argument is a bit lame. FOSS doesn't make anything instant good or perfect or even right.  Packman is hosted in Germany too fwiw so the laws that might have started this equally apply to packman too I'd guess. heh
To the original topic (which has been resolved for future releases afaik) it's kind of dumb to remove functionality of a program because stupid people might do stupid things similar to smart people doing smart things. If the programs did something that wasn't agreeable or possibly illegal they should of just removed them and not did some half assed butchering in the name of being safe yet friendly to everyone that they thought mattered.
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