 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to karlmarx
Re: Why Is This Bad? said by karlmarx:I challenge you to read the 'fine print' of ANY cellular phone contract. I read the fine print of everything I sign, whether it is a lease, mortgage contract, car purchase agreement, cell phone contract or whatever, every time.
said by karlmarx: You have to be a lawyer to understand it. So just because you can't do it means that we have to ruin things for everyone else? I've never had a problem looking up the meanings of legal terms online and I am no lawyer.
said by karlmarx: What the EFF wants to do is make it so there is NO FINE PRINT. Period. You can go to any service provider's website and view a copy of a potential contract with no fine print. You can even use your browser settings to jack up the font size to whatever you like.
said by karlmarx: If you buy something, the rules should be simple and easy enough for a 9th grader to understand (well, a 4th grader if you want to include republicans). So you finally switched to the GOP? Nice.
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 aSicapplication specificPremium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL | said by pnh102:said by karlmarx: If you buy something, the rules should be simple and easy enough for a 9th grader to understand (well, a 4th grader if you want to include republicans). So you finally switched to the GOP? Nice. *rimshot*
Nice zing.
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by karlmarx:I challenge you to read the 'fine print' of ANY cellular phone contract. I read the fine print of everything I sign, whether it is a lease, mortgage contract, car purchase agreement, cell phone contract or whatever, every time. said by karlmarx: You have to be a lawyer to understand it. So just because you can't do it means that we have to ruin things for everyone else? I've never had a problem looking up the meanings of legal terms online and I am no lawyer. said by karlmarx: What the EFF wants to do is make it so there is NO FINE PRINT. Period. You can go to any service provider's website and view a copy of a potential contract with no fine print. You can even use your browser settings to jack up the font size to whatever you like. said by karlmarx: If you buy something, the rules should be simple and easy enough for a 9th grader to understand (well, a 4th grader if you want to include republicans). So you finally switched to the GOP? Nice. How do you look something up when you're there, away from the computer?
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 VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102  I read the fine print of everything I sign, whether it is a lease, mortgage contract, car purchase agreement, cell phone contract or whatever, every time.
[/BQUOTE :I would be willing to bet that you have not read the fine print of everything you have signed |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to Gbcue
said by Gbcue:How do you look something up when you're there, away from the computer? The best way is to never sign something on the spot. If it is a cell phone contract, those can be read at home before you sign up. As for a mortgage, I was able to read the paperwork before closing and prepare my list of questions. The same goes with a lease. For the car loan, the only thing I was worried about was being scammed into one of those "you own it but you really don't" type of deals... and if the dealer is desperate enough to close a deal with you, they will let you read the contract.
If you have a phone with a data plan and a browser, that also helps.
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to Van
said by Van: would be willing to bet that you have not read the fine print of everything you have signed And you'd lose.
I don't see why this is considered a bad thing. Any contract that involves you paying money for something and which has the potential to really screw you over if you aren't careful really should be read and understood by you before you sign it.
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VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | I doubt it. It makes your argument stronger online but nobody reads every single line of every single product they buy. Some are almost 10-12 pages long of small line-by-line words.
I am sure you won't admit otherwise but I doubt I am wrong.
Not mocking you as I don't either |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | And you're more than welcome to do that. I'll continue reading contracts. 
If it helps to convince you, I do not sign up for many subscription-based services simply because I do not like the types of terms in some of these contracts.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to Van
Ten to twelve pages is nothing. If I'm entering into a contract that make me financially liable for something, I do read everything. Ask the closing agent that I used to close on my last house. I spent close to two hours reading/signing everything. The sad thing is that the closers said that they've never had anyone read the documents. What??? Why would you not read everything if you're getting ready to agree to pay more than $1 million dollars over the next 30 years?
FWIW, I actually read the license agreements on software that I install on my computer too, but that's a different discussion. |
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| reply to pnh102
I doubt you have enough time to keep up with all the monthly changes that are happening. Also, I've read contracts where they refer to something in some other location. You go to that, it refers you to some other place that you can not fine, etc... It's a racket to hide the "icky" parts. |
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Good for you. I do the same thing with contracts, but not the EULAs. Bad me, I know... |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to jjeffeory
said by jjeffeory:I doubt you have enough time to keep up with all the monthly changes that are happening. Funny you mention that. The only bills where I have that problem are the water + sewer and electric bills, neither of which has a contract attached to it. As for cable and cell phone bills, which are the only 2 services I have which are contract-based, I've never experienced a charge or rate change that wasn't covered somewhere in the contract or terms of service.
said by jjeffeory: Also, I've read contracts where they refer to something in some other location. You go to that, it refers you to some other place that you can not fine, etc... It's a racket to hide the "icky" parts. And again, if you experience this problem, and you do not like the terms, then do not sign up for the service. Simple as that.
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| Even bottom feeding lawyers admit fine print is usually just a bogus attempt at "jibber jabber".
How could you possible understand that? |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by DataRiker:Even bottom feeding lawyers admit fine print is usually just a bogus attempt at "jibber jabber". How could you possible understand that? Google is my friend.
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| So you don't see the stupidity in trying to understand something that is, by the creators admission, absurd?
Fortunately, the rest of us do. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by DataRiker:So you don't see the stupidity in trying to understand something that is, by the creators admission, absurd? Fortunately, the rest of us do. The creators say this? Where? Just because some shady lawyers you know make this claim does not mean the lawyers who wrote these contracts make the same claim.
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Reviews:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Well, I saw this in 2 instances. The first was a Harvard law scholar on an unrelated documentary (mortgage crisis), and the second was from a lawyer friend.
Either way your presumption that google will substitute years and years of legal experience needed to decode these things is wrong. In some cases the authors motives are to get litigated ( did I ever mention lawyers are ....well nevermind)
Think about why that might be. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by DataRiker:Well, I saw this in 2 instances. The first was a Harvard law scholar on an unrelated documentary (mortgage crisis), and the second was from a lawyer friend. Funny you mention the mortgage crisis. Talk about a situation which could have been avoided entirely had the people who signed their contracts actually bothered to read what they were signing before committing to it.
That just validates my argument even more.
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Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Your assumption that you have read every type of mortgage contract is astounding.
Even more astounding is your assertion that you could have understood, even when a Harvard law professor can't, the contractual language of the modern mortgage.
You have proved nothing but your own ignorance. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by DataRiker:Even more astounding is your assertion that you could have understood, even when a Harvard law professor can't, the contractual language of the modern mortgage. Sorry, but that says more about your friend than it does about me.
I had zero problems reading and understanding, in its entirety, my mortgage contract when I went to closing. I had my questions, I went over them with lawyers at closing, looked up some other things I did not know, and my house has yet to be foreclosed upon.
And to be fair, a standard mortgage contract for a primary residence is NOT that complicated either. If someone from Harvard cannot understand it, that says more about that person than the vast majority of people who sign and abide by these contracts every day.
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