| reply to JukeBoxHero
Re: Displacement vs Forced Induction/ v8/12 vs 4 cyl said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Actually, they don't. The Honda s2000 is a two seater that gets 18MPG city and requires premium gas. Given the size of the car and the fact that it needs higher octane, I'd consider it a gas guzzler. My bet is that all those high-output engines are about the same.
Also, can someone explain:
The 237HP is at 7800 RPM and it redlines at 8000 RPM. Is it just me or is that pushing the motor just a bit?
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| said by burgermeister:said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Actually, they don't. The Honda s2000 is a two seater that gets 18MPG city and requires premium gas. Given the size of the car and the fact that it needs higher octane, I'd consider it a gas guzzler. My bet is that all those high-output engines are about the same. They don't? Because you can find one or two 4 cyl engines you want to bet they're all about the same. I'll take that bet and win! 
There are a few high performance 4 bangers that get bad mileage but check out Road and Track for more comparisons.
»www.roadandtrack.com/assets/down···mary.pdf
Then there's the government site, »www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/FEG2010.pdf to prove you wrong too. |
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| reply to burgermeister
said by burgermeister:said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Actually, they don't. The Honda s2000 is a two seater that gets 18MPG city and requires premium gas. Given the size of the car and the fact that it needs higher octane, I'd consider it a gas guzzler. My bet is that all those high-output engines are about the same. Also, can someone explain: The 237HP is at 7800 RPM and it redlines at 8000 RPM. Is it just me or is that pushing the motor just a bit? I-Vtec usually kicks in after 5,800 RPM. You have to keep the RPM's high on Honda engines to keep the power band from dropping. That's normal though. I have a k20 motor and they love to rev high. |
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| reply to JukeBoxHero
No, they don't. And as far as my one example counting for all, my thinking there must be why I do so poorly in the stock market. 
Anyway, I just don't see them as being more efficient. Sure, they have their place due to package size and the size of the vehicle, but that's about it. An engine in a small car will naturally get better mileage because of the whole package size. You don't get better mileage because you're using a high-output four cylinder, you're using the four cylinder because it's all that will fit in the car -- in most cases.
Just look at the numbers: You take one of the cars listed by the OP and they get around 18 MPG on average city with 200-250 horsepower average then you take a 4.6L V8 in a Mustang that puts out 315HP and gets 16 MPG. So the V8 puts out 25% more horsepower yet it only burns 13% more gas (feel free to check my numbers as it's early!).
My argument is that a four cylinder itself is not more efficient (mileage/HP), but when it's part of an overall smaller package, it naturally can get better mileage. You can't really put a V8 in a WRX, after all, nor would you put a 250 HP four cylinder in a full-size pickup truck. Both engines have their place and one size doesn't fit all.
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"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." |
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| reply to DarkSithPro
said by DarkSithPro:I-Vtec usually kicks in after 5,800 RPM. You have to keep the RPM's high on Honda engines to keep the power band from dropping. That's normal though. I have a k20 motor and they love to rev high. That's just crazy fast spinning -- especially when you consider the 7800RPM. It's hard to sort all of this out when you look at the numbers. Really, who spins their car up to 5000 RPM and dumps the clutch?
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"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." |
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 MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | reply to burgermeister
Really?
Subaru WRX with an LS1. 
Never say can't, it just takes time, money and resources. There's also more out there.
»www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=···aq=f&oq=
Matt
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I like to rant about funny and serious things.
ISSA Certified Personal Trainer. |
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 MchartFirst There.
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL | Well, you can strap a jet engine on just about anything - But traction becomes a serious issue.
Of course, the LS1 isn't exactly the most powerful V8 out there either.
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THIS IS SPENCER. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED - I HAVE JOE. RETURNING TO BASE. |
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 TA63ST215WPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2 | Jet engines do not rely on traction.
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Striving for Parfection. |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | I think Richard Hammond would disagree.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy6KaCe4cco
Matt |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | reply to Mchart
Ahh... but it is a V8, something you said cannot go in a WRX. I know, semantics, but proves it can and has been done. Your lesson for this week? Never make a definitive statement that is not definitive.
Matt |
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MchartFirst There.
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
3 edits | -I- never said that. What I did say as I arrived later in this discussion is that there is a difference between useable power and power that isn't.
I've seen plenty of RX-7's powered by LS7's - And without some SERIOUS upgrades to about the entire car - That power isn't useable in any way. It's also worth noting that on a track an original rotary RX-7 with some tuning for more power will beat out the LS7 RX-7 simply because of handling and weight issues.
So while there is no replacement for displacement; I do realize that a lighter car which in turn also handles better is going to beat out some supercar with a v12 anyday. Once again, I bring up a TVR design - The TVR Sagaris. Which pretty much beats out every supercar out there on a track. Or if you want to get even better - The Ariel Atom. However, both are vastly outclassed when talking in terms of raw speed (And creature comforts).
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOlVKZOlMN4
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THIS IS SPENCER. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED - I HAVE JOE. RETURNING TO BASE. |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | My mistake, I misread usernames big time. Statement retracted!
Matt |
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| reply to MattBC
You are SUCH a PITA! |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | You'll have to get behind my wife to tell me that one.
Matt |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | reply to Mchart
I agree with you 100%. I'm hoping the new faster Ariel Atom is tested in this series of Top Gear.
Matt |
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| reply to burgermeister
said by burgermeister:said by DarkSithPro:I-Vtec usually kicks in after 5,800 RPM. You have to keep the RPM's high on Honda engines to keep the power band from dropping. That's normal though. I have a k20 motor and they love to rev high. That's just crazy fast spinning -- especially when you consider the 7800RPM. It's hard to sort all of this out when you look at the numbers. Really, who spins their car up to 5000 RPM and dumps the clutch? HAHA, you'd think with those revs you'd create some kind of magnetic field. Look at the Rotary engine on the RX-8. The thing can go up to 9,000 revs! That's insane. I'll tell you the drawback though. I am concerned with my Type-S though. A 2 liter engine producing over 200 HP in a Naturally aspirated. That's amazing. However the RPM's are so high I do worry about the engine blowing up, and I have to put a quart of oil in my engine every few months, because it burns oil like mad at high RPMs. Going 75 mph in 6th gear at 5,000 revs is a little concerning too.. |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | 5000RPM in 6th at 75mph? Wow. I thought my Spec V was geared low, I'm at maybe 3200RPM at the same speed in 6th, but larger engine creating the same horsepower from higher compression, but more torque.
Matt |
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| said by MattBC:5000RPM in 6th at 75mph? Wow. I thought my Spec V was geared low, I'm at maybe 3200RPM at the same speed in 6th, but larger engine creating the same horsepower from higher compression, but more torque. Matt Ditto, my Mazadaspeed 3 is about 3300 at 75 and I get nervous at that.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | reply to DarkSithPro
Our other thread about you and the M6 reminded me to post back up in here. I tested it a few days ago, and my Spec sits at 2800 RPM in 6th gear at 75mph. I thought it was 3200 previously, but I was wrong!
Matt |
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| Funny, but I recalled this thread the other day as well. 3,000 rpms ~ 80 mph in 6th. |
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