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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | More BS So I guess if it dies the millions of people that don't have access to "the cloud" won't be playing any games then. I know quite a few peole without access to broadband that have a PS3 or XBOX 360. So I guess they don't want these customers in the future. I just love how all these so called "experts' predicting the death of physical media think that
A) everyone has access to broadband.
Considering the ISPs in the US have zero interest in providing broadband to areas not deemed "profitable ENOUGH" and our government's glacier pace at instituting some plan for universal broadband access. It'll be 2025 at the earliest before we get 95% access. Which will still put it behind the adoption rates TV and telephone had in the 1970s.
B) those with access to broadband have broadband
Believe it or not not everyone sees the interest/value of paying $40, $50 or more for the internet or the interest/value in having a computer.
C) those with broadband have speeds acceptable for getting stuff from "the cloud"
For example in my area lots of people have 768 kbps DSL or 1 Mbps cable internet. These are technically considered broadband but hardly acceptable for downloading stuff from "the cloud". Some have it because that's all they need. most have it because it's $20 and that's all they can afford to spend on internet.
D) assuming no one wants to have physical media anymore.
Plenty of people that still don't feel comfortable for paying for something they supposedly own that they can't touch. Not to mention when it comes loaded with DRM that basically limits where and how you can have access to something you supposedly own. At least with a DVD or blu-ray I can watch it in any TV in my house or even take it with me to a friends house or in the case of a DVD watch it on a portable DVD player.
Why should I pay the SAME price as a DVD for a movie from XBL when I can not only prevented from playing it on anything other than a XBOX 360, but I can only play it a MY specific XBOX. | |
| said by BF69:Why should I pay the SAME price as a DVD for a movie from XBL when I can not only prevented from playing it on anything other than a XBOX 360, but I can only play it a MY specific XBOX. Actually, to much my annoyment, It's been my experience that most of the movies available for rent or purchase are more expensive than my Local video store and Amazon Respectively. I'm not paying 20 bucks for some DRM laden file I can only play on my Xbox when the physical DVD can be shipped to my door in a couple days for less money. And the rental prices on Live Marketplace are outrageous. We're talkin upwards of 8 bucks for new release rentals. Hell I can get 5 day new release rentals at my video store for half that. Digital distribution should be markedly cheaper than physical distribution (my gut tells me somewhere on the range of 20% for rentals and 30-40% for full out purchases, since you lose a lot of functionality and value with those digital purchases).
Hell I see the same thing with games too, Why would I buy The Witcher for 40 bucks on steam when amazon has it for 35 with a truckload of physical extras, map, making of dvd, sound track, collectors case. Why would I buy Mass Effect on Live for 20 when amazon has new physical copies for 17.99. I just don't understand the price disparity wherein digital downloads are costing significantly more than physical copies. | |
| reply to BF69
Wait a minute, you aren't the REAL BF69. because he's a total MPAA supporter. He's the one who thinks that ripping a DVD is illegal, immoral and should get you sent to PMITA prison. He's the one who advocates 'pay once, then pay again'. He's the one who believes that anyone who sings 'happy birthday' should need to pay the RIAA. The reason I bring those up, is because I am the one who advocates DRM free media. Just right now, I downloaded FlashForward, Episode 10. Guess what, it's not even going to be SHOWN in the US for several days, but they already ran it in Australia, and, oh' nooo's! the internet is a GLOBAL product, not just a part of the US. Hmmm. I can't be breaking any DRM or copyright laws in the US, because, guess what, I didn't GET it from the US. So, whoever stole BF69's account, please give it back to him. Spouting off stuff like customer rights is so out of character.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | | |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by karlmarx:Wait a minute, you aren't the REAL BF69. because he's a total MPAA supporter. He's the one who thinks that ripping a DVD is illegal, immoral and should get you sent to PMITA prison. He's the one who advocates 'pay once, then pay again'. He's the one who believes that anyone who sings 'happy birthday' should need to pay the RIAA. The reason I bring those up, is because I am the one who advocates DRM free media. No it's me and I'm consistant with my views. None of the thing you say about me are true. I never said ripping a DVD is illegal or should be. If you're doing it for your own purposes( such as a back-up ) then sure go ahead. I really don't care. If you're doing it because you want to give friends and family a free copy then no it's not ok.
He's the one who advocates 'pay once, then pay again' You think because you pay for cable you can just download everything from torrent sites. Using your logic is I went to the theaters to see a movie then I'm entitled to a free DVD or blu-ray or digital copy since I already paid to see the movie. That's not life works in grown-up world.
Just right now, I downloaded FlashForward, Episode 10. Guess what, it's not even going to be SHOWN in the US for several days, but they already ran it in Australia, and, oh' nooo's! the internet is a GLOBAL product, not just a part of the US. Hmmm. I can't be breaking any DRM or copyright laws in the US, because, guess what, I didn't GET it from the US. So, whoever stole BF69's account, please give it back to him. Spouting off stuff like customer rights is so out of character. Hey gues what nothing worng with you waiting for it to be shown on TV here or on ABC.com. Are you 12? You're like a little kid who spends his time hunting around the house for his Christmas presents before his parents have chance to wrap them. More to life than TV. Try getting out of the house once in awhile.
Now just because I believe in copyright doesn't mean I don't have issues with the current law. Just because I drive the speed limit doesn't mean I agree with it. I respect the law. Your attitude is "Fuck that, I don't believe in speed limits so I'll drive 120 MPH if I want". Then you're shocked and offended that you could actually be ticketed for speeding.
Your name is Karl Marx now who was Karl Marx? Oh yeah the SOCIALIST. You know the one the commies in Russia decide to admire. The fact is that you think people should work for free. Well except you. If you ever created anything in your life you'd be all for respect of copyright. Creating movies, tv, music, games etc COSTS MONEY. Your attitude is that these companies don't have any right to even recoup costs let alone make a profit. Your attitude is "Spend all your money entertaining me and provide it to me for FREE" exactly who in the fuck are you to demand that? | |
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by BF69:Your name is Karl Marx now who was Karl Marx? Oh yeah the SOCIALIST. You know the one the commies in Russia decide to admire. The fact is that you think people should work for free. Well except you. If you ever created anything in your life you'd be all for respect of copyright. Creating movies, tv, music, games etc COSTS MONEY. Your attitude is that these companies don't have any right to even recoup costs let alone make a profit. Your attitude is "Spend all your money entertaining me and provide it to me for FREE" exactly who in the fuck are you to demand that? Why not hide the cost of media in Income Taxes and have the government pay artists/performers/producers on proportional popularity based on torrent downloads from Pirate Bay and have piracy be the only distribution method?  | |
| said by patcat88:said by BF69:Your name is Karl Marx now who was Karl Marx? Oh yeah the SOCIALIST. You know the one the commies in Russia decide to admire. The fact is that you think people should work for free. Well except you. If you ever created anything in your life you'd be all for respect of copyright. Creating movies, tv, music, games etc COSTS MONEY. Your attitude is that these companies don't have any right to even recoup costs let alone make a profit. Your attitude is "Spend all your money entertaining me and provide it to me for FREE" exactly who in the fuck are you to demand that? Why not hide the cost of media in Income Taxes and have the government pay artists/performers/producers on proportional popularity based on torrent downloads from Pirate Bay and have piracy be the only distribution method? Honestly, I have to agree that the concept of caps and overage charges negates any possibility of moving to digital distribution. Someone mentioned the PSPgo as an example of this move - that thing isn't selling except to people who never had a PSP and don't know any better. Trust me, GameStop is NOT a fan of PSPgo - know why? Without physical media they can't rape customers on the used stuff. It cuts into their profit margins.
There will always be at least one console that still uses physical media; it's inevitable. I imagine that the PSPgo and "digital only" devices like it are going to go the way of the Sony PSX media device. One previous point was valid...I as a consumer will not pay $20 for a digital-only version of a game that I can get at GameStop for $10, then return 5 days later when I've beat it, netting out as zero cost. It's not happening now, not happening ever.
If Microsoft is smart they'll stick to their guns. They already proved with the 360 that they're a valid contender in the gaming space, and that Sony doesn't get it anymore. If Sony wants to go all digital let them. If Microsoft stays physical with theirs, and offers a digital OPTION as an alternative like they've been doing recently, they'll succeed. Part of the issue is Sony charging $250 for a "dumb client" when the physical media version can be had for $150. If it's going to be a dumb client, price it like one. If the games are digital only - no media, no books, no extras - charge it that way. | |
 DaMaGeINCThe Lan ManPremium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2 | reply to macdude22
Or pirate it for free............ And pocket all the money! | |
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to ReVeLaTeD
said by ReVeLaTeD:There will always be at least one console that still uses physical media; it's inevitable. I imagine that the PSPgo and "digital only" devices like it are going to go the way of the Sony PSX media device. One previous point was valid...I as a consumer will not pay $20 for a digital-only version of a game that I can get at GameStop for $10, then return 5 days later when I've beat it, netting out as zero cost. It's not happening now, not happening ever. When the "hottest" games come out as digital only, and the industry collectively at once switches to digital-only games, you won't have a choice. And you WILL buy digital-only games, gaming is a drug. | |
| said by patcat88:said by ReVeLaTeD:There will always be at least one console that still uses physical media; it's inevitable. I imagine that the PSPgo and "digital only" devices like it are going to go the way of the Sony PSX media device. One previous point was valid...I as a consumer will not pay $20 for a digital-only version of a game that I can get at GameStop for $10, then return 5 days later when I've beat it, netting out as zero cost. It's not happening now, not happening ever. When the "hottest" games come out as digital only, and the industry collectively at once switches to digital-only games, you won't have a choice. And you WILL buy digital-only games, gaming is a drug. You know what they say about those who assume.
Trust me - I don't go for for the "hottest" games. I go for the games that are fun, which often are the niche JRPGs. My gaming hours per day has dwindled significantly over the years. My PS3 is used to play one PS2 game, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. I'm anticipating three games: Arc Rise Fantasia for the Wii, Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep for the PSP, and Lunar for the PSP. Everything else is totally uninteresting.
I'm not blowing wind. There will NEVER be a digital-only era. Not with broadband overages and caps. Not with GameStop's monopoly. There will ALWAYS be at least one console who sticks with physical media. Gaming was a drug when games were fun. Now that they're pushing tons of the same game, not even. | |
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
1 edit | 
ata/ |
said by ReVeLaTeD:I'm not blowing wind. There will NEVER be a digital-only era. Not with broadband overages and caps. When 90% of your market has broadband, or when game developers partner with ISPs walled garden style, there will be a digital-only era. Same way you don't get to have a natural gas furnace in the sticks, 3 minute response time fire/police/EMS (23 minutes to be exact for a 6 state police car response first hand experience, hope you own a gun), pharmacies open till 11PM or 24/7, cell phone service, street and highway lighting, etc, you won't have get to experience gaming. Sure some game developers/console developers will target rural areas (external drive to an online-only console), but your not going to get name brand games, or pay dearly for them, since the developers know if your buying physical, theres a reason for it, and they can extort you because your rare and desperate and not the majority.
said by ReVeLaTeD: Not with GameStop's monopoly. There will ALWAYS be at least one console who sticks with physical media. Gaming was a drug when games were fun. Now that they're pushing tons of the same game, not even. Aslong as $ keeps going up, the gaming industry will think they are invincible and they can throw anything at the consumers. | |
| Dude, you're missing an important point.
It's not about broadband saturation. It's about CAPS and OVERAGES. If I'm capped at 5GB, that allows me basically one DVD-sized game per month before I get charged an insane amount. Now look at where the PS3 games are in terms of game size and depth. Do you honestly think such a game is going to be pushed over a wire? No.
Add to that the point that the US is still significantly farther behind in upstream speed than other countries, and you have a real problem on your hands.
I'm not saying digital downloads aren't going to always be there. Xbox Live paved the way. Others took it and ran with it. I'm just saying that if you think physical media of any kind is disappearing, you're sadly mistaken. Even if the console we're using in 20 years is not made by Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo, there will be a physical media console, period. I'm going to bet chips that the next evolution of game consoles will simply use solid state drives, and that the game itself will be delivered on flash media for faster access times and greater capacities. | |
| reply to patcat88
said by patcat88:[Aslong as $ keeps going up, the gaming industry will think they are invincible and they can throw anything at the consumers. That chart is meaningless in regards to a viable broadband only model. I will guarantee if a game maker sold a highly anticipated game as an online/streamed game only that game will not get half the sales it would have if offered on physical media. Keep in mind most games are bought by parents for their kids and the biggest sales season is Christmas. You take away the physical media you take away the present that can be wrapped and opened with wide eyed joy (something a lot of parents relish on Christmas). We are a LONG way off of having a business model that is exclusively relying on online distribution. | |
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by SRFireside:That chart is meaningless in regards to a viable broadband only model. I will guarantee if a game maker sold a highly anticipated game as an online/streamed game only that game will not get half the sales it would have if offered on physical media. Keep in mind most games are bought by parents for their kids and the biggest sales season is Christmas. You take away the physical media you take away the present that can be wrapped and opened with wide eyed joy (something a lot of parents relish on Christmas). We are a LONG way off of having a business model that is exclusively relying on online distribution. You give physical giftcards for christmas. Corporate America has drilled into people's heads that nobody wants gifted goods. They just get regifted or tossed. Corporate America drilled in that giftcards are good. Of all the families that do the [american] christmas ritual I know, they all have some combination of no gifts (boxes empty/fake names under tree, the younguns who believe in Santa Claus get 99 cent store crap) and gift cards/cash and a card only, gift with $5-$20 price cap and gift cards/cash and card for everything else, very expensive previously okayed gifts (gotta fake that your surprised infront of the kids/rest of extended family), and some exceptions for the above for "legacy" gift givers that haven't learned the 21st century way of doing christmas (senior citizen family members and crazy with a screw loose extended family members that you'd rather not have buy you have to invite them anyways because of the moral code of your family/culture). I know someone will chime in that people still do Christmas 20th century style.
A bad business will only issue thermal paper receipt or email printout giftcards or sell you a generic Visa giftcard (that angers me, I want you name on it), but any decent business will have nice glossy ones. Parents wouldn't know the right game to buy anyways, they will buy Reader Rabbit or Tetris Plus for their 14 year old. If there is a game the kid wanted, he wouldve figured a way to get it already, unless he has no job and no allowance, but why would his puritan parents allow him to have a game console in the first place then?
Another view is video games are a babysitter now, why would a parent deprive the kid of a game until christmas?
Look at the success of Steam. | |
| My statement still stands. Steam might be getting good sales, but they pale in comparison to disk sales. We are not yet in a time where a major game can only be electronically distributed. The sales numbers on the physical copy are still staggeringly high over download sales. Having a best seller only sold online won't happen for a while. The infrastructure just isn't there and the desire for a hard copy is still strong.
Sure there are gift cards and they are increasingly being used, but where do the cards end up? Most go back to buying the physical copy. | |
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