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| reply to Matt
Re: If nothing to hide Whatever. I don't even have a GPS, unlike some I can still read a map.
But all potshots aside... asking them not to create profiles on people who aren't suspected of crimes is a pretty basic right to privacy.
The old saw applies:
Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither. |
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 NiarlanExcelsiorPremium join:2002-11-09 Manville, NJ | Got a phone that was made in the last 5 years?...you got GPS then ! |
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 El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON kudos:2 Reviews:
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| True dat, but still it's not the GPS I have an issue with it's the monitoring.
I can leave my phone at home (and frequently have to because the battery sucks ass) however as I'm not involved in any type of violent regime change, I really don't see how the GPS activity is emanating from it is anybody's business.
My original point still stands. |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | reply to El Quintron said by El Quintron:But all potshots aside... asking them not to create profiles on people who aren't suspected of crimes is a pretty basic right to privacy. Unfortunately, that's not the reality of law enforcement and again, you're misconstruing your right to privacy. Creating profiles is perfectly fine, what those profiles are used for is what you should be concerned with. -- trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services |
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 NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium join:2002-03-05 | I think we should be concerned with both issues.
The very creation of a profile about a person that includes personal interests, location, history of locations, contacts, financial transactions, etc. is a gross invasion of privacy. No government organization or private business should have the ability to do this without first obtaining the explicit written consent of the informed individual, or a court order.
Our society needs to create laws that clearly designate each individual as the sole owner of information created about them or on them based upon their actions (such as credit card purchases, travel, or GPS location history). Only then will people truly start to have a smidgen of privacy again.
Yes, this law should apply equally to government and private agencies. That means no more snooping and selling of data by phone companies, credit card companies, insurance companies, internet browser cookies, etc., etc. Make it a felony punishable by up to $100,000 fine or 10 years imprisonment for each offense to invade our privacy. -- To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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 El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON kudos:2 Reviews:
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| reply to Matt said by Matt:Creating profiles is perfectly fine, what those profiles are used for is what you should be concerned with. Bullshit. Profiling basically leads to greater prosecution of the profiled subject plain and simple.
quote: As criminologist Katheryn Russell, University of Maryland, College Park, puts it, "The high number of blacks arrested are partially the result of police targeting them in the first place."
I don't buy, profiling may lead to potential perpetrators caught but what it will surely lead to is a greater amount of arrests of individuals that match said enforcement officer's pre-existing bias. |
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| said by El Quintron:I don't buy, profiling may lead to potential perpetrators caught but what it will surely lead to is a greater amount of arrests of individuals that match said enforcement officer's pre-existing bias. Sometimes biases are based upon facts. In the mid '90s black-on-black crime was at record levels. Jesse Jackson said: "There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
Did he feel pained for profiling white people as not a threat? Or, pained that blacks (at that unfortunate time) were creating such a stigma for themselves?
I'm sure it was the latter. But, if we (whites) make similar, rational judgments, we beat ourselves up for being so insensitive.
I agree that profiling leads to problems (even abuses). But, that doesn't mean some level of profiling isn't beneficial (and something everyone employs in their personal lives).
Mark |
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 NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium join:2002-03-05 | reply to El Quintron I think we're confusing two issues here: 1) Profiling, or the act of building a generic description of someone and then investigating all people who match that description, and 2) Building profiles of people, or creating millions of data sets that pertain to specific individuals (like "All of John Doe's credit card transactions).
I'm OK with police profiling to a certain degree. For instance, I don't have much of a problem with police placing additional scrutiny on Muslims going into a particular building or attending an event, if there is credible evidence that a Muslim terrorist organization is planning some activity there. I don't think that this is a violation of privacy, or rights, or much of anything... it's just being smart about investigating and using your limited resources to play the odds.
I'm not OK with authorities building individual profiles on people without having good reason (like having evidence to suspect someone of committing a crime). Using people's credit card records, GPS location information, phone records, bank account records, etc. to investigate someone without specific and credible cause fits into this category. This practice is invasive and clearly violates what should be a right to privacy in our society. -- To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy:I'm sure it was the latter. But, if we (whites) make similar, rational judgments, we beat ourselves up for being so insensitive. I'd have to say that's very US liberal phenomena... I don't find Canadians tend be PC out of one side of their mouths and suspicious out of the other.
In any case I'm French-Canadian so you're dealing with a completely different animal.
said by amigo_boy:I agree that profiling leads to problems (even abuses). But, that doesn't mean some level of profiling isn't beneficial (and something everyone employs in their personal lives). Mark My issue is not with actual police work, it's with fishing expeditions.
With some of the responses I'm seeing on the topic you'd think a lot of a Americans are unequivocally ready to give up their rights for potential gains in security... which as you know may or may not every materialize. That right to privacy however will never be given back. |
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| reply to NOVA_Guy said by NOVA_Guy:I'm not OK with authorities building individual profiles on people without having good reason (like having evidence to suspect someone of committing a crime). Using people's credit card records, GPS location information, phone records, bank account records, etc. to investigate someone without specific and credible cause fits into this category. This practice is invasive and clearly violates what should be a right to privacy in our society. Again like I said in my response after you posted yours, I have no issue with legitimate police work. I have issue with fishing expeditions.
Your above example large gathering of members of specific groups is valid.
Pulling a guy over because you know he's Muslim and you're looking to find something is weak at best and bigoted at worst. |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | reply to El Quintron said by El Quintron:said by Matt:Creating profiles is perfectly fine, what those profiles are used for is what you should be concerned with. Bullshit. Profiling basically leads to greater prosecution of the profiled subject plain and simple. quote: As criminologist Katheryn Russell, University of Maryland, College Park, puts it, "The high number of blacks arrested are partially the result of police targeting them in the first place."
I don't buy, profiling may lead to potential perpetrators caught but what it will surely lead to is a greater amount of arrests of individuals that match said enforcement officer's pre-existing bias. How in the hell are you making the leap from logging GPS locations to racial profiling? -- trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services |
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| said by Matt:How in the hell are you making the leap from logging GPS locations to racial profiling? Logging GPS locations is a profiling tool. I'm not making a link to GPS logs and racial profiling at all.
What I was saying is that the profilee will be victim of the profiler's biases... but I think we're beyond that now, see my posts above. |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | reply to NOVA_Guy said by NOVA_Guy:Using people's credit card records, GPS location information, phone records, bank account records, etc. to investigate someone without specific and credible cause fits into this category. This practice is invasive and clearly violates what should be a right to privacy in our society. And that's where you and I disagree. I don't see it as invasive at all and until there is a law that prevents it or there is evidence of abuse, it's much ado about nothing. The benefit it provides to our law enforcement agencies far outweigh some paranoid delusion that they in any way, shape, or form care what you're doing or where you are. And that's a figuratively you, not specifically you.
If it really bothers someone that much, they are free to not use a cell phone. -- trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services |
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