| | Bye-bye Avast. This is more than a black eye, or a dented reputation. This will destroy them. With 100M potential victims, if just 1% had system files deleted to where they can no longer start their computers... I can already see the attorney commercials.
FWIW, I was helping my dad try to nail down this ghost virus. After searching for it, and finding these reports, I found it odd that my PC didn't complain. I had the same 091203 database. So I started a manual scan. During the initial memory test, it screamed four times, then without ANY warning, it rebooted my computer. Then it proceeded to a dos level scan where it began DELETING system files. I aborted that scan and immediately turned off the protection when Windows restarted.
I have all my warnings set to "ask what to do". So for this to begin deleting (not moving) without user consent is more than going off the rails. In fact, I'd say it almost has to be intentional - maybe even sabotage.
Again, if just a fraction of users - especially those with no technical skills - have any experience even close to what I did, Avast will be destroyed by this. | |
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  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Bye-bye Avast. Your post makes me wonder.
A disgruntled employee? A mad Ex? A Corporate competitor out to destroy Avast's good name?
Setup a tainted update, watch it roll out while everyone in Czech is snuggled up in their beds, and by the time they wake up it's too late, calamity.
This may turn out to be more damaging then any Virus....
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 | | | Re: Bye-bye Avast. Yes, and the irony of it all. The program we all use to protect ourselves ends up bringing down our castle. I fear the calls I'll get tomorrow.
I proactively sent an email to all I know that are running avast -telling them not to advance a virus warning screen. Since, in my case, clicking "no action" resulted in a reboot, I think the implications are disastrous. | |
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| salahx
join:2001-12-03
Saint Louis, MO | Most likely either someone either (accidentally) put in a definition what matched a common string (or one too short) in error, or while building the final pattern one of the strings in the pattern got truncated. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Bye-bye Avast. Yeah, that would make sense, but then what about the reports that the program goes ahead and reboots and does a boot scan deleting files as it goes, without user permission to do so.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 ABPremium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
kudos:3
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by erkme73:This is more than a black eye, or a dented reputation. This will destroy them. With 100M potential victims, if just 1% had system files deleted to where they can no longer start their computers... I can already see the attorney commercials. Not likely.
I believe the Avast EULA promises no guarantees, and I'm sure Avast will stand behind that promise. 
Again, if just a fraction of users - especially those with no technical skills - have any experience even close to what I did, Avast will be destroyed by this. In the same way the Sony Corp. was destroyed after intentionally infecting computers with a rootkit from one of their CDs? | |
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| | | Re: Bye-bye Avast. did sony's rootkit delete system files rendering the computer unusable? did it punch holes in critical OS libraries that caused system instability? If I remember correctly the rootkit issue dealt with privacy and consent issues _ not wholesale system destruction. I guess we'll find out soon enough. | |
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| | ABPremium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: Bye-bye Avast. said by erkme73:did sony's rootkit delete system files rendering the computer unusable? did it punch holes in critical OS libraries that caused system instability? If I remember correctly the rootkit issue dealt with privacy and consent issues _ not wholesale system destruction. I guess we'll find out soon enough. Rootkits aren't exactly a 'minor issue', any way you slice it.
Avast will take a certain amount of publicity flak over this, just as Sony did.
But cause their company to be "destroyed"? Hardly.
This is not good, no question about it. However, no need to be overly dramatic about it.
*Edit-
And welcome to DSLR, btw. | |
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| |  fireflierCoffee. . .Need CoffeePremium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo | The rootkit did make systems vulnerable to malware problems that they previously weren't vulnerable to. It went beyond privacy--it did cause system problems and vulnerabilities. It also created resource drains on systems (running in the background without users' knowledge), and installed without users' knowledge or consent which is illegal in some states / countries. It also led to class action suits as well as suits by states attorney's general. In some cases, it did lead to system damage resulting from increased vulnerabilities and intefered with CD / DVD usage on some systems. It was anything but benign.
»news.cnet.com/Sony-settles-rootk···173.html
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_C···_scandal
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Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com | |
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| | | | | Re: Bye-bye Avast. No doubt root kits are bad as well. My point was that the Avast SNAFU was deleting critical system files that made it impossible for the average non-techie user to bring the computer back to usable state.
I just can't think of any other comparison to what potential this Avast issue has. Just reading the the 'hosed system' reports on other DSLR threads, it's clear to me that the problem is not limited to false alarms.
Rendering systems inoperable is a consequence of a real virus. Or having an AV program that removes a critical infected virus. But to start wiping non-infected system files WITHOUT CONSENT, that's bad.
I realize many had no damage. Many did not have the auto-reboot, or the permanent deletion of system files - but quite a few did (myself included). Multiply that by 100M and the scope becomes overwhelming and 'dramatic'. | |
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| | | | ABPremium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Bye-bye Avast. said by erkme73:My point was that the Avast SNAFU was deleting critical system files that made it impossible for the average non-techie user to bring the computer back to usable state. No, your point was that the fallout over this incident would be so severe as to cause Alwil Software to go out of business. "Be destroyed" was the way you put it.
Hyperbole might not often bear a direct relationship to the facts, but it usually makes for an attention-getting post. | |
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1 edit | Re: Bye-bye Avast. Seeing as I was the one making it, I think I know what my point was. OP was the fallout.
Second point was clarifying the diff between killing a computer vs. root kit. Both bad, one is worse. But please, do tell me what I meant.
*Edited to add*
This is from just a few posts up in the original thread here:
"The only thing I knew to do was go into services and disable all Avast parts then reboot and remove the whole Avast from Add/Remove. Never got there. After rebooting, his machine froze at the desk top, will not go into safe mode, task manager, allow clicking on shortcuts, nothing. F2 and F12 are no help and the cd feature will no longer come on so I can try a repair from disc."
Multiply this time god-knows how many other users, who will know where to go for blame, and to think this could destroy the at-fault company is a little more than hyperbole | |
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| | | | | | ABPremium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Bye-bye Avast. said by erkme73:Seeing as I was the one making it, I think I know what my point was. When you make a post in unequivocal English, the words are there for all to see.
You can come back later and try to put a different spin on what you wrote, yet the words are still there for all to see.
If there's ambiguity or equivocation in the post, then there's room for interpretation as to meaning. When I read your post, I felt no confusion and detected no ambiguity.
You even emphasized your point at the end:
said by erkme73:Again, if just a fraction of users - especially those with no technical skills - have any experience even close to what I did, Avast will be destroyed by this. But now you want to say you meant something entirely different than the words, syntax, and emphasis within your post clearly indicated you meant.
Reminds me of the guy caught cheating red-handed by his wife who came home unexpectedly.
As he puts on his pants and ushers his mistress from the room, he denies anything is going on.
When his wife says "I see what I see", the guy responds "Well, who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"
But of course, we all believe you. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Bye-bye Avast. I still feel this will destroy Avast. No change there.
I feel root kits don't represent the same type or level of damage as deleting system files and hosing potentially hundreds of thousands of computers. No change there.
Where is the conflict? | |
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| | | | | | | | ABPremium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Bye-bye Avast. said by erkme73:I still feel this will destroy Avast. No change there. . . . Where is the conflict? I don't see any. | |
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Ecwfrk
join:2001-03-02
Fort Smith, AR | quote:
I can already see the attorney commercials.
A) Those commercials only start after a judgment has been made or the company responsible has admitted causing harm and is paying off people who have a valid claim without any fight. They're a scam to let the lawyers collect 30% of what anyone could get by filling out a few forms themselves.
B) The "We are not responsible for borking your system" part of software EULA's has been held up in court over and over again.
C) A solitary, short term problem with software they've been satisfied with in the past isn't going to alienate most people. It's unlikely one hiccup in a program 100m people have chosen over other programs is going to make very many people run off and use something else. If it becomes a pattern, then they'll be in trouble.But as it is, it's a little embarassing for them, but it won't in any way destroy them. | |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | I said goodbye to Avast awhile ago when MSE came out for free from Microsoft. Never regretted that decision. I just hope the few non-techies that I recommended Avast to in past years came thru this unscathed. Will be waiting for calls today about damaged systems.  | |
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quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
kudos:2 | Attorney? Most people downloaded avast! for free, and I'm sure their terms and conditions free them of any liability anyway. | |
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 61999674Gotta Do What Ya Gotta DoPremium
join:2000-09-02
Here
kudos:1
1 edit | Those that feel this will destroy Alwil/Avast must be new to this anti-whatever game, this type of thing has happen to all of them at some point in time, maybe not to the level as this was but this shows how many use Avast, tribute to Alwil for issuing an update right away.
By default Avast marks all flagged files as "move to chest" not "delete".
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It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. | |
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