 NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | reply to Romney2012
Re: 911? Are you sure this is the case? I'd like to have some assurances that agencies don't go on fishing expeditions, beyond your saying so...
Just looking at things that agencies like the TSA do to passengers in the airport leaves me feeling less than comfortable that our government would do the right thing here... and that's just one of probably dozens of examples that I (and others) could point out of government abuse of power.
I would really like to see Sprint release more info to back up their claim that privacy hasn't been trampled (the article says they will). I will give Sprint credit through all of this, though: they're being significantly more open than yesterday's article insinuated Verizon to be over this whole thing. (IIRC, Verizon essentially said their customers were too stupid to understand GPS tracking and not panic in the streets.)
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by NOVA_Guy:Are you sure this is the case? and not panic in the streets.) It depends on locale. In most states, state constitutions require a search warrant. But Federal Courts so far have not required one. So I guess if the FBI is after you, they can use GPS to track you without a warrant.
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NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | So, to be clear, your statement prior to this one only covers requirement for state and local police agencies...
That's not particularly assuring, considering that the agencies most people are likely concerned about abuse with are run by the federal government. 
But I suppose if they can tap our overseas conversations without permission and court supervision, I shouldn't be surprised when they can abuse their powers even closer to home...  
Hopefully the court will rule in the favor of privacy and decide that GPS location data is covered by the fourth amendment.
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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 james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | said by NOVA_Guy:To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. I know it's your sig, and I'm being off topic, but why is your sig only directed at liberals? I'm a Libertarian, so can I have your money? If not, maybe you should direct your sig to everyone and not just liberals.
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said by Metatron2008:But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer |
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Crysin
join:2009-07-26
Wauconda, IL
1 edit | reply to NOVA_Guy
I know i'm going to get flamed for asking, but why is it you care so much that your government is tracking you? Sure it may not be right, but you seem outright paranoid about it. If the FBI is going to track you, they're not going to go just randomly choose, they're going to be tracking people with high level interest, not the average joe on the street.
Also remember you choosing to by the product that Sprint or whoever is offering, by you choosing that product, i think it's unfair to complain about what they do with their product, that they service, that you chose to buy. |
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| said by Crysin:but you seem outright paranoid about it. This always happens. There's always a group who focus on how changes in technology empower government. But, they want everyone to ignore how changes in technology have empowered us as individuals too. It's a balancing act. But, to the complainers, all they see is one-sided government growth.
Things like global travel, global communication, weapon improvements, etc., have all improved our rights as individuals. My freedom of movement is enhanced compared to the guy in 1776 who had to spend 2-3 weeks on a boat to sail to Europe.
My freedom of speech is improved because I can publish my views to anyone using the internet. I'm exposed to a variety of views which I wouldn't have had access to in 1775.
My freedom of association is improved because I can pick up a phone and call anyone (instead of spending the day on horseback, to travel 10 miles to my friend's house).
These all improve our political rights. And, they impose new challenges to the orderly exercise of rights which the founding generation couldn't even imagine.
The people who complain about how government has taken on more power as a result of these improvements completely ignore how our own political power and autonomy has improved. They act like we're standing still, losing rights. They don't count how our rights have improved tremendously (and, as a result, created challenges that also improve government power).
Mark |
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"why is it you care so much that your government is tracking you? Sure it may not be right, but you seem outright paranoid about it."
Some people are more sensitive about their privacy than others. I'm old enough that I am one of them. I think it's a generational thing. Younger people seem to have less concern about the feeling that they may be monitored constantly, seem to crave attention and fame and to be more exhibitionistic than in the past. I think these things are related.
"If the FBI is going to track you, they're not going to go just randomly choose, they're going to be tracking people with high level interest,"
This is a question of what is technically feasible. As technology progresses and it becomes possible, and relatively inexpensive, to track everyone 24 hours a day the government will do it. I'm not saying this because I'm a paranoid person, nor am I an anti-government right winger in case you were wondering. I'm saying this because it is the nature of power and the human desire for ever increasing control by those who have it. |
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | said by asdfdfdfdfdf :
This is a question of what is technically feasible. As technology progresses and it becomes possible, and relatively inexpensive, to track everyone 24 hours a day the government will do it. While it will reach that point some day, we are still a long ways away. Our county does GPS tracking of our vehicle fleet (ironically through a different Sprint portal). The combined space-time coordinate + metadata is not that small, but when you record it every 30 seconds (even tossing out the zero movement points) for a big enough fleet, it rapidly builds up. Even now we only have enough storage to store about 7 days before we have to toss it. While it might be possible to track anyone, tracking everyone and retaining the information still is a ways off.
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 VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | reply to Crysin
said by Crysin:I know i'm going to get flamed for asking, but why is it you care so much that your government is tracking you? Because we want our privacy which we are guaranteed to have unless the government has a legal warrant to back up their search
Would you want the government searching your house/car because they think you may have something?
I have nothing illegal in either but no, I don't want cops/agents searching through my stuff without an actual legal reason |
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NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | reply to james
Libertarians aren't actively supporting the health care highway robbery being discussed in Congress. They also aren't actively supporting legislation loosely coupled with the climate change conspiracy that supports mass wealth transfers to people around the world. Libertarians also aren't trying to raise taxes and expand the size of government.
My signature is aimed at the primary group of people who support the above policies, hence the mention of liberals.
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | reply to Crysin
said by Crysin:I know i'm going to get flamed for asking, but why is it you care so much that your government is tracking you? Because I care about my privacy, even though I may have nothing to hide. And because, philosophically, I believe that our government must be kept on the shortest leash possible and given only enough limited power to perform its most essential functions.
Since security is an essential function, I support our government having the ability to monitor people. But since this ability-- like all things-- is subject to abuse and misuse, I believe that its use should be strictly monitored and audited.
I am not opposed to the technology, per se. I am opposed to having a system that blindly trusts that the technology will not be abused.
Law enforcement officers are people too, which means they're subject to making mistakes, being emotional, and going on power and ego trips. If close tabs were not kept on the ability to monitor GPS cell phone locators, I could easily see an officer or two who thinks his wife/significant other is cheating on him abusing the system to track their movements. Those types of actions not only hurt the targeted victim; they hurt law enforcement, as public trust in their ability to protect decreases. (I am a firm believer that the protect part of "protect and serve" includes protecting everyone's rights.)
said by Crysin:Sure it may not be right, but you seem outright paranoid about it. Perhaps there are reasons for being paranoid about government abusing its power. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind as two extreme examples of said abuse. The Rodney King beating comes to mind as another.
While there is admittedly a big difference between beating/killing innocent civilians and merely tracking them, I would still argue that there are a number of people in government who routinely abuse their power. Providing them with another tool that makes it even easier is not something I'm in favor of.
said by Crysin:If the FBI is going to track you, they're not going to go just randomly choose, they're going to be tracking people with high level interest, not the average joe on the street. I would certainly hope so. But I do not share your blind faith that this is (or will always be) the case. We give our government a considerable amount of power over our lives. This power should come with significant accountability, a very short leash, and harsh penalties for abuse. Unfortunately in today's world the accountability, short leash, and still penalty portion of my opinion does not appear to be reality.
said by Crysin:Also remember you choosing to by the product that Sprint or whoever is offering, by you choosing that product, i think it's unfair to complain about what they do with their product, that they service, that you chose to buy. I've chosen to purchase a product provided by Sprint, which means I've chosen to buy their service. This service does not include the right to disseminate private, personal information about customers at will-- which is essentially what is being done.
I suppose you would be opposed to releasing customer credit card and Social Security number information to the general public by Sprint. I also suppose you would be opposed to releasing your private cell phone number to the public by Sprint. (I know I would be.) Other private, personal information-- such as GPS tracking information that show where I am and where I've been-- should remain confidential as well.
A system needs to be put in place to ensure that it does, by monitoring and recording requests for information, and tracking when and how such requests are fulfilled. Ideally, data from the monitoring system (about who is requesting what information) should be accessible to the public. This would appear to be the most direct method of ensuring that abuse of the GPS tracking data system does not occur.
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | reply to marigolds
Hopefully our government will never have this capability. If it has, we've let it go too far. Unfortunately at that point it will likely be impossible for us to also consider measures to limit and/or reduce its power.
Perhaps the time will come when more people will realize the danger of giving too much freedom and power to others in the name of "safety" or "security". But as long as the Facebook/Twitter/MySpace social networking crowd continues down the "Look at me! Pictures of my drunken state as last night's party!" path, I fear that won't happen. The problem with giving everybody their 15 minutes of fame, is that everybody has 15 minutes of fame.
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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