 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | reply to NOVA_Guy
Re: 911? I am in no way stating there shouldn't be checks and balances, I'm referring more to the people who start screaming that the sky is falling and how dare the ability to do this even exist.
As to the Fourth Amendment, it only applies to things that qualify as a reasonable expectation of privacy and furthermore, you must make an effort to ensure that expectation is met. In other words, if you leave GPS enabled on your phone and then try an invoke the Fourth Amendment as protection from a law enforcement officer using that information, you're up the creek because you didn't take reasonable steps to protect your own privacy.
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trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services |
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| said by Matt:As to the Fourth Amendment, it only applies to things that qualify as a reasonable expectation of privacy and furthermore, you must make an effort to ensure that expectation is met. In other words, if you leave GPS enabled on your phone and then try an invoke the Fourth Amendment as protection from a law enforcement officer using that information, you're up the creek because you didn't take reasonable steps to protect your own privacy. So pray tell what reasonable steps I need to take to protect my privacy, while still retaining the ability to use my phone GPS?
I look forward to your reply. |
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MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by eugenegill:said by Matt:As to the Fourth Amendment, it only applies to things that qualify as a reasonable expectation of privacy and furthermore, you must make an effort to ensure that expectation is met. In other words, if you leave GPS enabled on your phone and then try an invoke the Fourth Amendment as protection from a law enforcement officer using that information, you're up the creek because you didn't take reasonable steps to protect your own privacy. So pray tell what reasonable steps I need to take to protect my privacy, while still retaining the ability to use my phone GPS? I look forward to your reply. They are mutually exclusive. In other words, you can't. If you want to use your phone's GPS you give up that right.
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trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services |
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Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
2 edits | reply to Matt
said by Matt:As to the Fourth Amendment, it only applies to things that qualify as a reasonable expectation of privacy and furthermore, you must make an effort to ensure that expectation is met. Exactly. In a business transaction, the only expectation of privacy is what's contained in the agreement/contract. If I contract with a landscaper, there's nothing preventing him from disclosing any info he learns about me. Unless I require an NDA (or, part of his contract says he offers confidentiality).
Even then, it's not a 4th amendment issue. It's civil/contractual.
In some cases we have a universal umbrella privacy agreement, like the federal law which imposes statutory civil penalties against telcos for releasing call records except under a few defined circumstances.
Even that's not a 4th amendment issue. It's more like how copyright statutorily imposes a universal contract upon business relationships.
It would only be a 4th amendment issue if an LEO forcefully searched my landscaper's office for information about me without a warrant. (Improperly obtained evidence.). Otherwise, if my landscaper releases info voluntarily it would only be a civil matter between me and my landscaper (assuming I had an agreement with him to keep my details private).
So, I think the important question is whether existing federal law treats position data the same as call records. If not, should people start a movement to press for that kind of statutory protection?
Otherwise, it's a matter of consensual consumer relationships. If telcos don't put privacy in their customer agreement, it's because they don't have to. Not enough people are worried about it to leave, and reward a telco that does.
Mark |
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| reply to Matt
said by Matt:said by eugenegill:So pray tell what reasonable steps I need to take to protect my privacy, while still retaining the ability to use my phone GPS? They are mutually exclusive. In other words, you can't. If you want to use your phone's GPS you give up that right. You have just trashed the 4th Amendment. If your opinion of the Constitution coincides with that of just a single person in Government, then these are sad days indeed. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| said by eugenegill:You have just trashed the 4th Amendment. If your opinion of the Constitution coincides with that of just a single person in Government, then these are sad days indeed. The 4th amendment doesn't require anyone I choose to do business with to treat my information privately. That's a function of the conditions I set forth as part of them doing business with me.
Why do you believe otherwise?
Mark |
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 VigThread-safe since 1997Premium
join:2004-03-23
San Diego, CA | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:So, I think the important question is whether existing federal law treats position data the same as call records. If not, should people start a movement to press for that kind of statutory protection? This is exactly the question to ask. It's a long-established legal principle that people have an "expectation of privacy" in their phone conversations even though phone service is nothing more than a "consensual consumer relationship" with the phone company. There is not a long-standing precedent for location data because it only recently became commonplace for everyone to carry a potential tracking device.
It would be in keeping with the spirit of the 4th amendment if all these new streams of data were to be considered part of a reasonable expectation of privacy unless otherwise ruled for a compelling reason. Until there's enough body of law to establish precedent, though, there will be great pressure from business interests and law enforcement to maintain a free-for-all use of such data because it makes it easier to achieve their goals. |
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 NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | reply to Matt
I really wish that the market would start offering phones without any sort of GPS capability-- even when calling 911. Not being able to be precisely located in an emergency is a risk I'll happily take if that's what needs to happen to retain some degree of privacy.
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to Matt
said by Matt:They are mutually exclusive. In other words, you can't. If you want to use your phone's GPS you give up that right. The phone's GPS is not under your control. Whether you use Wayfinder/Google Maps/whatever makes no difference regarding the ability of the network to track you.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  |
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