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k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

k1ll3rdr4g0n to Lazlow

Member

to Lazlow

Re: So....

said by Lazlow:

1st. If you had bothered to look up war driving you would have seen that it is not illegal. The groups often get together and have competitions. Some are how many APs you can find in a given period of time(usually tied in with gps for proof). Another game is similar to geocaching where clues are left on essids. Some games do step over the line (as in not legal) and actually access the AP.
I would still air on the side of caution for that.
Even DSLR even says its both: »Wireless Security »Isn't wardriving illegal?

Now, I don't know about you, but I certianly don't want people sniffing around my APs.
said by Lazlow:

From your almost total lack of knowledge on the subject I am not surprised that you cannot find anyone. Do you even no the basic symbols to look for?
Personal attacks will only make your argument weaker.
said by Lazlow:

Once again the hardware requirements are really minimal. A 700Mhz PIII is sufficient, especially if one can use the pre made tables. Virtually all the software (windows or Linux) provides a list of cards that are best to get the job done. Again many of these cards are in the $20 range, so it is within reach of virtually anyone.

"WPA uses the passphrase you provide and the ESSID as a seed to create the actual encryption key."

From:»www.fonerahacks.com/foru ··· =4&t=158

Which was just the first reference I happened to find.
I would love to accept that as actual fact, however, the whois for that domain is as follows:
nguyen, eric webmaster@fonerahacks.com
asdf
asdf
asdf, Kansas 31241
United States
1234124123 Fax --

Somehow, I cannot take that as a reliable source, and I think you would agree. It may be true that WPA uses ssid, however, by posting illegitimate sources you only weaken any argument you make even further.
Though, in general terms WPA isn't itself an encryption used - it uses different encryption algorithms as a backbone; one of them is TKIP.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te ··· Protocol

Here is the TKIP overview: »libtomcrypt.com/files/tkip.pdf
There is NO mention of using essid.

With that said, the router could use the essid in forming keys BUT it isn't a fact that they will; so you shouldn't assume they will.
said by Lazlow:

A simple google search on howto X, will yeild a step by step guide on how to do this. Most include the software and hardware requirements required to get the job done.
No doubt there, however, I would bet that most people don't have the hardware on hand.
said by Lazlow:

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of people who are now using Linux. While Linux may be the preferred platform, the software to do this is also available for windows.
I don't think so. I am arguably the only person in my school that actually uses Linux on a day-to-day basis. The rest, complain of its complicatedness (is that a word?, regardless it isn't a good excuse not to use Linux), and are too attached to Windows to actually use Linux.
Yes, I have heard the complaints and queried people on what they use. The general consensus is Windows.
And when I tried to utilize the necessary software under Windows, I couldn't get it to work. Booted up Linux and it worked perfectly.
said by Lazlow:

Our local Walmart carries three usb dongles that have the proper chipsets to use for this activities.
Care to share specs?
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

As long as you are just listening it is legal. If you transmit to connect to the AP then you are probably over the line.

From your link:

"No. Wardriving solely to detect the presence of wireless access points without malicious intent in and of itself is not illegal."

I noticed you did not bother to answer the question, which would indicate the answer to be no. Proving my point.

Considering the way the legal system has been going lately, you are unlikely to find a source that you could sue(reputable source) that will post any information on the topic.

There are five linux users within a block of me, and one of those is over 70. The local LUG had to find a new place to hold its meeting becuase there was not enough space.

All three of these(below) use the 2870 chipset which requires using the nemesis driver(for injection). They are all three on the shelf at our local Walmart. There are probably others that would be functional too, I just have not taken the time to look around and see.

Linksys USB600N
Linksys WUSB100
Belkin F6D4050
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

said by Lazlow:

As long as you are just listening it is legal. If you transmit to connect to the AP then you are probably over the line.

From your link:

"No. Wardriving solely to detect the presence of wireless access points without malicious intent in and of itself is not illegal."
It is a very gray area. Lets leave it at that.
For example, taking pictures publicly is not a crime, however, if a person wishes for you not to take their picture then it is illegal. Which one would say "how would one know the other people also don't want their picture taken?".
said by Lazlow:

I noticed you did not bother to answer the question, which would indicate the answer to be no. Proving my point.
I didn't answer your question directly because it was a personal attack. I refuse to encourage ignorance.
said by Lazlow:

Considering the way the legal system has been going lately, you are unlikely to find a source that you could sue(reputable source) that will post any information on the topic.
Wait, what? I would press charges against the person?
said by Lazlow:

There are five linux users within a block of me, and one of those is over 70. The local LUG had to find a new place to hold its meeting becuase there was not enough space.
Like I said, in my area this is what I noticed. I acknlowedge there are different parts in the world. Different people; different interests.
said by Lazlow:

All three of these(below) use the 2870 chipset which requires using the nemesis driver(for injection). They are all three on the shelf at our local Walmart. There are probably others that would be functional too, I just have not taken the time to look around and see.

Linksys USB600N
Linksys WUSB100
Belkin F6D4050
I looked up the first one here: »linux-wless.passys.nl/qu ··· stif=USB
And found that it used the Ralink chipset.

Jumping to the aircrack project:
»www.aircrack-ng.org/doku ··· _drivers
quote:
Ralink makes some nice b/g chipsets, and has been very cooperative with the open-source community to release GPL drivers. Packet injection is now fully supported under Linux on PCI/CardBus RT2500 cards, and also works on USB RT2570 devices. However, these cards are very temperamental, hard to get working, and have a tendency to work for a while then stop working for no reason. Furthermore, the RT2570 driver (such as that for the chipset inside the Linksys WUSB54Gv4) is currently unusable on big endian systems, such as the PowerPC. Cards with Ralink chipsets should not be your first choice.
You are right in saying it may be supported, but from that do you really think that card is a good choice?

I couldn't find the WUSB100, but the F6D4050 is in that list and it is also Ralink. Again, this only strengthens my theory that the cards you need aren't readily avaiable at your local Best Buy.

Unless you know of another wireless cracking project that DOES support Ralink without any negative comments?
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Ok, if you do not have the vocabulary or know the symbols to look for(most basic skill), it is a little like hunting deer without knowing what they look like. In either case you are not going to find what you are looking for.

Poor choice of words on my part, I did not mean to infer you. I meant that some company (riaa/mpaa like in nature).

All three of those do work IF you use the nemesis driver instead of the manufactures drivers, which is why I specifically mentioned it. With this driver it seems to function acceptably. I assume that the nemesis driver is newer than that list you used.

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium Member
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
Linksys E4200
ARRIS SB6141

aefstoggaflm to k1ll3rdr4g0n

Premium Member

to k1ll3rdr4g0n
said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:
said by Lazlow:

1st. If you had bothered to look up war driving you would have seen that it is not illegal. The groups often get together and have competitions. Some are how many APs you can find in a given period of time(usually tied in with gps for proof). Another game is similar to geocaching where clues are left on essids. Some games do step over the line (as in not legal) and actually access the AP.
I would still air on the side of caution for that.
Even DSLR even says its both: »Wireless Security »Isn't wardriving illegal?

I Point you to »www.wardrive.net/wardriving/faq

where they talk about Part II: Legalities and Ethics

^^
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

k1ll3rdr4g0n to Lazlow

Member

to Lazlow
said by Lazlow:

Ok, if you do not have the vocabulary or know the symbols to look for(most basic skill), it is a little like hunting deer without knowing what they look like. In either case you are not going to find what you are looking for.

Poor choice of words on my part, I did not mean to infer you. I meant that some company (riaa/mpaa like in nature).

All three of those do work IF you use the nemesis driver instead of the manufactures drivers, which is why I specifically mentioned it. With this driver it seems to function acceptably. I assume that the nemesis driver is newer than that list you used.
I know exactly what to look for, and the fact that EVERYONE I have run into defiantly don't show an interest in anything like this. Granted I don't bust into people's homes and check out their setup so my experience can only account for a small percentile...but I can only present my facts. I am not doubting that there are other Linux users in my neighborhood, it just seems like they choose not to be known for whatever reason. Do you really want me to poll the computer scientists just to prove a point?

And wait, I didn't list a driver? I used the actual wireless cracking program's site as evidence. Nemesis driver or not, they go out of their way to mention that. Can you post a link to the Nemesis driver that specifically says "this will work better than any other driver" or something similar. I would like to take your word for it, however, since you mentioned as evidence in your argument I feel it is your responsibility to back up your claims. And if its a hardware issue causing the malfunction of the card, then a different driver will most likely not fix the problem.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit

Lazlow

Member

The symbols I was referring to have nothing to do with Linux, which seems to be what your first paragraph is inferring.

I forgot that the nemesis driver is just the modified(for linksys) hirte driver.

»forums.remote-exploit.or ··· st1.html

"One thing to keep in mind is you can find an official, better working driver for this chipset from Ralink's website. This driver DOES support monitor mode but DOESN'T support injection. Seeing as how injection is kind of necessary to the point of thats probably why you got Backtrack, this is the answer for you"

You will note that the driver is stored on aircrack-ng.org. I suspect that the link that you posted is just dated. On the original driver series it did not work very well. Newer drivers came along that do, but your link just did not get updated.

IF I recall correctly the reason the original driver series did not work very well had to do with the driver not properly handling the transmit power control on the chipset. The driver would leave the power at full blast all the time until it overheated. The newer drivers do not seem to have a problem.