| reply to JRW2
Re: And the slowdown continues... said by JRW2:said by kdshapiro:Are you trying to extrapolate the "vast majority" of millions from a few posts on this site? I talk to HUNDREDS of people in my line of work who have OOL at their houses, and extrapolating from them AND the ones who post here, I think I can get a pretty good idea what other people probably get at their homes. I would agree with you that the vast majority of users are seeing speeds between 8 and 12 megs, within the range of what OOL considers acceptable. They do advertise UP TO 15 meg and 8-12 is within the "UP TO" AS ADVERTISED. CV advertises UP TO 15 and feels the 11 you see is within a reasonable range of what they offer. If a customer feels the 11 meg is not worth the cost then that customer needs to cancel their service and find another service that suits their needs.
To use the restaurant analogy. I have eaten at a restaurant that I did not like, friends of mine I was with loved the place. They will continue to patronize the restaurant and I will not. The food was prepared properly, just not in a manner I liked.
Cablevision offers an internet service that will provide you with 7-15 meg download speeds, they do not offer a guaranteed advertised 15 meg service.
On a side note: My Lamborghini was advertised to do 200 MPH but I don't call the dealer when I am doing 45 MPH stuck in traffic. |
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| reply to JRW2
I want to add that I am not arguing whether it is right or wrong for CV to advertise speeds the way they do. Some people feel that when CV says UP TO 15 meg they want it to be 15 meg all the time. Anyone thinking of getting Cablevision's "base" online service has to realize the speeds can go as high as 15 meg but will usually be less than that, and that is how they are advertising it. |
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Reviews:
 ·Cablevision
| reply to CVtek
And if the restaurant has many unhappy customers and/or some customers get half empty plates while others get full plates, then a lot of those customers will leave and the restaurant may close.
As FIOS spreads, CV's business will suffer if they can't compete with good service. |
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| reply to CVtek
Boost so I guess the qualifies as "UP TO" 30Mbps. Guess what happens to the restaurant that tells its customers to take it or leave it . . . |
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 jaaPremium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
kudos:2
·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| reply to cseeman
said by cseeman:As FIOS spreads, CV's business will suffer if they can't compete with good service. I don't agree with your statement - I think it is much more complicated than that.
But if I were to follow your logic, I would conclude they are competing with good service based upon the facts.
From their 2008 annual report:
2006 OOL Penetration: 44.7%
2007 OOL Penetration: 48.8%
2008 OOL Penetration: 51.9%
The net increase in OOL subscribers in 2008 (during active FiOS rollout) was about 175,000.
OV penetration has gone from 26.5% to 39.7%.
TV has dropped from 68.5% to 65.7%.
Like I said, I don't think that proves anything about the OOL service. My personal view is 99% of their customers don't run speed or line quality tests, and are blissful in their ignorance regardless of what their speeds are. As long as they can get their email, talk to granny on Skype, and download from iTunes - and save $1.89 per month - they are happy.
And to the OP - thank goodness you only have the problem annually, and not nightly!! 
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NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. |
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| reply to JRW2
»/linequality/nil/2600557
Oh look, it's Winter again! *sigh* |
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Reviews:
·Cablevision
| reply to jaa
Let's see how 2009 looks like.
Personally I don't think many people are aware of FIOS as an option. As their marketing increases there will be a shift.
Penetration doesn't tell the whole story of economics either. Premium services like Boost and Ultra will suffer because those ARE the discerning customers who pay more because they have the speed demands.
So OOL will retain the lower tier customers and the discerning customers will pay a premium for FIOS reliability.
When I have to download a client's 2GB file and it takes me three times longer that it did previously, it costs ME money. That makes my decision to move when the time comes, very easy.
Probably for most people anything above 5Mbps is not going to be noticed but the people who do notice, those who need the speed, are going to spread the bad news and that will impact market perception.
Witness AT&T and the iPhone. Watch what happens to AT&T when Apple offers the iPhone on another provider.
Cablevision has a limited opportunity to improve their service or, inevitably it will hurt. |
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jaaPremium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
2 edits | In 2007 they said let's see what 2008 looks like.
Verizon is marketing the hell out of FiOS, including going door-to-door. Hard to miss it.
OOL doesn't give a rats ass about "discerning" customers. Let all of them go to FiOS - cheaper and easier to support the lower tier masses, and acquire two new customers for every "discerning" customer that leaves.
You seem to be a discerning, intelligent OOL customer - therefore I assume you are using the absolute best possible internet service - and you chose Optimum Online. Even though it costs YOU money when you download a client's 2GB file.
Yes, yes - the bad news will spread like wildfire for the thousands on DSLR to read. Ooooh - scaaaarrrry.
Eulogies for OOL have been posted here for years. First it was capping that was going to be the end of them. Then overcrowded nodes. Then FiOS. Then FiOS when they start really rolling it out. Then FiOS when people find out about it. Then FiOS when - well, whenever.
I just don't think "normal" people are paying enough attention to care.
I guess Steve Jobs and Apple are a bunch of ignorant fools - just "gave" at&t the exclusive and never even took a look at their network. You should have called Stevie and said wassup wit dat and slapped him around a bit until he came to his senses. As you can see, it really killed the iPhone. And at&t will collapse once the iPhone is offered on another network - right after CV collapses.
Corporate decisions - and consumer decisions - are a just a little more complicated than you are implying. Most people have a lot of confidence in the Apple brand, the company, and the management as evidenced by their stock multiple. Market Researchers make a lot of money studying and trying to predict consumer behavior.
I'm sure you know a lot more about these things than I - I know enough to know I don't know. I just don't see anything that looks like iminent doom for CV, despite the many predictions over the years. Certainly Verizon cherry-picking the neighborhoods to install FiOS, skipping the less desirable locations for who knows how long (5 years? forever??), reduces the threat, while CV provides service to 99% of their service area.
Just my opinion.
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NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. |
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 JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
·Optimum Online
| said by jaa:In 2007 they said let's see what 2008 looks like. Verizon is marketing the hell out of FiOS, including going door-to-door. Hard to miss it. OOL doesn't give a rats ass about "discerning" customers. SNIP!! Just my opinion. I don't see any of this door to door advertising for FIOS, it is NOT available in my area yet, though, as I understand it, the CO has been ready since sometime in 2007. Latest estimate is sometime this year. I guess they bribed the right people, or CV was late with their "donation" to the local officials. 
As for OOL/CV giving a rats ass....
I beg to differ, they seem to be QUITE agitated by the dish I have on my roof, not a week goes by, on average, that I either get something in the mail, a phone call, or my favorite, the guy walking the neighborhood who wants me to sign up for MORE service at a "great" price... 
The ones I have a chance to talk to face to face or on the phone, are SHOCKED that I am NOT ecstatic about my OOL service, and want to know why...
I gladly regal them with the sordid details of my "experiences" with OOL and their service.
In fact, I had a call today, from a polite gentleman with what I assume was an Indian accent, who wanted to sell me MORE CV product at that AMAZING price. I politely told him that I am just waiting to DISCONNECT OOL as soon as I have an alternate provider.
My wife on the other-hand, hangs up on them or tells them to get lost if they show up at the door. You see, she hates them too, and she doesn't know how to run a speed test, she just knows that things are slower now than when we had it installed, many years ago....
When OOL was only 10/1....
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! |
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JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to jaa
said by jaa:And to the OP - thank goodness you only have the problem annually, and not nightly!! Yeah, annually, from the end of November until March, NIGHTLY, DAILY, WEEKENDLY, MORNINGLY, etc...
24/7 for five MONTHS straight.....
No big deal...
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! |
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Reviews:
·Cablevision
| reply to jaa
I'll bet GM thinks the same way that you do. Unfortunately CV won't be getting a bailout. CV markets like crazy compared to FIOS.
AT&T will certainly lose when Apple adds another provider. Apple's doing just fine in as time goes on, are ending the exclusive provider contracts.
All it will take is a few percentage of the CV customers leaving to impact them. The upper tier customers are more profitable, otherwise why sell it. So their leaving will hurt the most financially.
I think in the end Time Warner will buy CV just as they did Adelphia in upstate NY if this continues. Not that Time Warner would be a good provider (been there done that) but CV is going to have a rough time as FIOS expands (as well as various DISH competitors). It's why CV spends so much on marketing. |
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3 edits | reply to CVtek
said by CVtekOn a side note: My Lamborghini was advertised to do 200 MPH but I don't call the dealer when I am doing 45 MPH stuck in traffic.[/BQUOTE :and you certainly shouldn't, because it was your choice to drive on the road with traffic, and you could certainly get off that road at any time and open it up to 200mph if you choose to... bottom line, i can get 12m down and 2m up any time between midnight and 5:00pm, but from 5:00pm to midnight the BEST that i can get 2m down and 2m up. sure, CV can tell me all day that 2m is acceptable because they legally can, but anyone that has left the house in the last 10 years will say that an 80%+ drop in DL speeds at a particular time of the day is a big problem... at 7:15pm  at 1:44am later that night  |
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| said by Dino Velvet:said by CVtekOn a side note: My Lamborghini was advertised to do 200 MPH but I don't call the dealer when I am doing 45 MPH stuck in traffic.[/BQUOTE :and you certainly shouldn't, because it was your choice to drive on the road with traffic, and you could certainly get off that road at any time and open it up to 200mph if you choose to... bottom line, i can get 12m down and 2m up any time between midnight and 5:00pm, but from 5:00pm to midnight the BEST that i can get 2m down and 2m up. sure, CV can tell me all day that 2m is acceptable because they legally can, but anyone that has left the house in the last 10 years will say that an 80%+ drop in DL speeds at a particular time of the day is a big problem... at 7:15pm at 1:44am later that night NO ONE IS SAYING 2 MEG IS GOOD ENOUGH. Although in reality they never advertise a MIN speed. The OP said his speeds drop to 11 meg for 5 months every year. That is WELL within Cablevision's acceptable range AND no matter what analogies we use it comes down to the fact that CABLEVISION OFFERS "UP TO" 15 meg AND the speeds you see will be lower than that most of the time.... IT IS NO SECRET. If a customer requires 15 meg guaranteed speed then they need to change provider or tiers. If they change to boost and get 11 meg then CV will attempt to fix it, if you are in their"up to " 15 meg service and it goes to 11, they will do nothing as it is WITHIN SPECS. Again I am not saying the way they advertise is right but the speeds ARE NOT GOING TO BE 15 MEG and they don't claim it will be. They are not falsely advertising. Now if the speeds go to 2 meg there is a problem and they need to fix it. If too many people don't like the way CV advertises there speed they will cancel service, then CV will be force to do something. However as the numbers in this thread show their saturation continues to climb... so obviously someone likes the service. |
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Reviews:
·Cablevision
2 edits | said by CVtek
If too many people don't like the way CV advertises there speed they will cancel service, then CV will be force to do something. However as the numbers in this thread show their saturation continues to climb... so obviously someone likes the service.
It could mean pent up demand to jump to other providers as they appear in the affected area.
For many people they have no competitive choice yet.
CV's marketing blitz will come back to bite them if they can't deliver close to the speeds they offer. While growth may be due to the marketing blitz, retention is going to be an issue over time. |
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JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to CVtek
said by CVtek :
The OP said his speeds drop to 11 meg for 5 months every year. No, I said my speeds drop to less than HALF of advertised from the end November until late March. I said I was told by support that anything under 11Meg was not acceptable.
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! |
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| said by JRW2:said by CVtek :
The OP said his speeds drop to 11 meg for 5 months every year. No, I said my speeds drop to less than HALF of advertised from the end November until late March. I said I was told by support that anything under 11Meg was not acceptable. As we talked about before if a rep said under 11 is unacceptable they were wrong. You even said yourself that at the end of your calls with service they always say your speed is acceptable.
Also as much as you and the next guy ( and even the techs in the field ) hate it half is still acceptable to Cablevision. Even as a tech I wish CV would guarantee a speed and stick to it but unfortunately they don't. As I stated before there are many people who get 8 or so meg regularly. If you happen to get more than that 7 months out of the year you are luckier than most of us.
If you are dropping to 2 or 4 meg than I agree there is a problem. I am also not going to argue about CV choice of advertising the way it does.
Within this thread there are people talking about very slow speeds like the 2 or 4 meg I mentioned. I am not saying that there isn't a problem there, I am simply saying that if you are getting 8 or 10 meg it is still acceptable per CV guidelines even if you got 15 meg everyday last month. |
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| reply to CVtek
said by CVtek :
On a side note: My Lamborghini was advertised to do 200 MPH but I don't call the dealer when I am doing 45 MPH stuck in traffic.
No, but if your car dealer also built the road and managed all the traffic on it and (which is the correct analogy here) then you would be absolutely correct to hold him responsible for constant slowdowns. |
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| reply to JRW2
i'm getting 3/4 on my boost connection at the moment...
it's 12:41, it's usually GAINING speed by this point and is usually right next to 30/5 a little later.
keep up the good work, cv, I suppose. |
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| reply to JRW2
said by JRW2:I just did a test on mine... I'm at 9.48/2.03, probably the best I have seen in weeks. I NEVER see over 10 download out my house and everything is well within specs. While this may be something that is obvious and therefore checked numerous times, have you confirmed that no LAN devices are running at a 10 Mbps port speed? I only ask because you said you never get above 10. |
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JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| said by frdrizzt:said by JRW2:I just did a test on mine... I'm at 9.48/2.03, probably the best I have seen in weeks. I NEVER see over 10 download out my house and everything is well within specs. While this may be something that is obvious and therefore checked numerous times, have you confirmed that no LAN devices are running at a 10 Mbps port speed? I only ask because you said you never get above 10. No LAN devices running at 10Meg. Gig network adaptor.
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! |
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