Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | U.S. uses resources efficiently with low waste .... ... and that is what has made the U.S. GDP at or near the top for the last 70 years.
The telecomm group makes some good points:
»news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2009122···dbanduse
"We'd love to have fiber to the home here, but in some countries there's more government subsidy," Banks said. "Some of the telecom companies can really build out a network without worrying about whether they can finance it or whether it is going to get used. What this says is we're tailoring our networks to what consumers really do with it, and people here really use it a lot, so our networks are good enough to support more usage."
The FCC and other policymakers can look to the study to see if U.S. broadband providers are giving consumers what they need, Banks said. "It's nice if you can build a network for 20 years out, and somehow, the government will finance it, but here we're trying to build for the next few years and make sure we have something that matches up with what people want," he added. And the chart showing bandwidth consumed:
The point is that some countries, misusing their people's tax dollars, have overbuilt systems well beyond the ability or desire of people to use the capacity. That is a gross mismanagement of limited resources and a waste of capital dollars that could have been used more efficiently and productively elsewhere.
Just like companies have become more efficient by using Just In Time inventory systems, the U.S. ISPs are using a bandwidth capacity sized to near term requirements.
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| U.S. uses resources efficiently with low waste. You are so incredibly full of it, almost constantly, occasionally to stunning effect.  But Merry Christmas all the same, Tom. |
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 Mr FelFlynn LivesPremium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY | Hey Karl that chart shows the US is 0.02GB/Month behind France, so we're third by even these metrics. |
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 knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | reply to Romney2012
said by Romney2012:Just like companies have become more efficient by using Just In Time inventory systems, the U.S. ISPs are using a bandwidth capacity sized to near term requirements. I won't argue with your other points, but I will counter this one. I run two ISP here in this country and you can't buy bandwidth capacity on the same scale of a "Just in Time" inventory systems. What you buy is blocks of bandwidth that only certain companies will sell to you.
So if I have one site with 100 customers and on average they never use more than 8 Mbps/sec of bandwidth, I can't buy 8 or 10 megabits of bandwidth from the local big companies (AT&T for example). Instead, I have to buy large blocks and set up peering agreements to run AT&T traffic as well. So for example, I have a site just like the one in question sitting on a 1000 M/bps Fiber peer.
Sure, it's great to have that much bandwidth available to them, but they never ever use it. It's 100 grandmoms checking e-mail and dads playing fantasy football. It also cost a lot of money! I certainly wish that I could tell them, I only need this much bandwidth now, bill me for less and during peak times, I need more bandwidth, so bill me for more.
So is this the same as per your example, this is overbuilt with a gigabit of bandwidth when it will never be used but instead of the government forcing this, a private company is?
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:U.S. uses resources efficiently with low waste. You are so incredibly full of it, almost constantly, occasionally to stunning effect. But Merry Christmas all the same, Tom. So you think US industry is inefficient - more so than countries like France, Japan, etc. I disagree. |
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1 edit | reply to Romney2012
I don't think we always use our resources efficiently but you do bring up some good points.
It would be interested to see the "real" cost per megabyte that people in each country pays including what the government contributes to broadband deployment. As we know this money essentially comes from the people in the form of taxes. We pay the majority of our internet bill directly to an internet provider. People in other countries pay some of it directly to an internet provider and another part in taxes that the government redistributes back to the same internet provider. |
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| reply to Romney2012
said by Romney2012:The point is that some countries, misusing their people's tax dollars, have overbuilt systems well beyond the ability or desire of people to use the capacity. I'm sure other country's ISPs are complaining that their customers are the problem, not their networks.
You know what that chart says to me?
That bandwidth demand is growing, but company's are lacking in investment. North America and US are nearly the same. So it appears compressed, like the demand is greater but no one is stepping up to continue the available bandwidth growth.
Hence the companies now try to "control" customer use instead of continuing investment to expand and improve their own networks.
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| reply to knightmb
said by knightmb:So is this the same as per your example, this is overbuilt with a gigabit of bandwidth when it will never be used but instead of the government forcing this, a private company is? Sounds almost the same as the whole cable a-la-carta problems. In the end, when companies recombine and form much larger companies that control large portions of the needed resources they can then charge whatever they want and people have to pay it in order to use it. That's a major problem today: more and more industries are loosing smaller companies, combining into larger ones, and competition is drying up (they then claim competition is thriving when it's not).
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 dnoyeBFerrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI | reply to Romney2012
The US got large by dominating the world market. Today, the focus is largely on dominating the US market. Many of these laws favor one industry over another. Such as how Health Insurance and Energy industries are costing other industries billions.
Broadband is the same. They will starve the citizens and the corporations alike. This hurts the US on and individual and a business level.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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| reply to Automate
The "they fund it with taxpayers money" meme is greatly overstating the actual level of direct taxpayer funding of network infrastructure in these other countries. Go read the Berkman Center study for the full details.
Also, this meme ignores the fact that both taxpayers and ratepayers here in the U.S. have spent quite a bit on our major ISPs. They've been given billions in tax benefits in the form of accelerated depreciation; the ILECs have special preferential treatment on pole attachments; they get utility right-of-way preferential treatment, yet as ISPs are not regulated like utilities; and in some states, folks regulated phone bills were allowed to be increased above the normal price cap price in exchange for promises of ftth deployment. |
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| reply to Mr Fel
Actually, it also shows North America being higher than the USA, which means Canada and/or Mexico is also ahead of us. We may even be 4th or 5th! |
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| reply to Romney2012
What's mindblowing is that you'd use a statistic like the GDP to argue that the U.S. uses resources efficiently with low waste. |
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dnoyeBFerrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI | reply to jimbo2150
I agree. This ties into my previous point about global market dominance vs. local dominance. Consolidations are good for global strength, but bad for local competition. Today's companies are trying to dominate the US market, and working hard to isolate this market from the rest of the world. Today's company desires isolated product competition but global resources.
I don't think that is good for us.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
1 edit | reply to Romney2012
As quoted from article TKjunkmail linked to
"We'd love to have fiber to the home here, but in some countries there's more government subsidy," Banks said. "Some of the telecom companies can really build out a network without worrying about whether they can finance it or whether it is going to get used. What this says is we're tailoring our networks to what consumers really do with it, and people here really use it a lot, so our networks are good enough to support more usage."
So I guess we don't need to move to metered billing then. |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by Zoder:What this says is we're tailoring our networks to what consumers really do with it, and people here really use it a lot, so our networks are good enough to support more usage."
So I guess we don't need to move to metered billing then. Nice try at putting words in my mouth. But I didn't say that and you know it. It was a quote from a news article in a post I made yesterday:
»Wednesday Evening Links
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | reply to Romney2012
Re: U.S. uses resources efficiently with low waste .... That's why i didn't quote your name. I was trying to quote the article you referenced. I'll fix it. |
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| reply to Romney2012
I notice that "North America" is higher than the US. Considering there are 10 times more Americans than Canadians, Canadians must be downloading a lot! Considering downloading copyrighted content for personal or academic reasons is completed legal according to Canadians laws, it's no surprise! |
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pandoraPremium
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Outland
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| reply to Karl Bode
Karl,
The real story to me is that the average U.S. customer uses 14.24 GB per month. This is very different from the claims by Comcast that a typical user consumes 2-3 GB per month.
Thanks for posting this, in the future, I'll round up and consider for the next year that the typical U.S. broadband user consumes about 15 GB per month.
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