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| | repay the subsidy AND an ETF? huh? what? if you cancel in the first 6 months you have to repay the subsidy AND pay the normal ETF? so that's like $500 to break the contract at 5 months? what a scam! | |
|   GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? said by putch:huh? what? if you cancel in the first 6 months you have to repay the subsidy AND pay the normal ETF? so that's like $500 to break the contract at 5 months? what a scam! What are you questioning?
If you buy the phone un-subsidized, it's $530. If you buy the phone subsidized at $180, break, the ETF is $350, and that brings you back to $530. You do get to keep the phone.
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My Blog 2.0 | |
| | | | Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? right. but normally you get a phone at a subsidized price and if you break your contract at some point you pay the ETF. you keep your handset. you and your provider part ways. end of story. that's why the ETF is justified: to recoup the cost of the subsidy.
this is the first time i've ever seen a situation where you have to pay an ETF and also return the subsidy. basically, here, they're, in effect, jacking up the ETF to $525 with an EXTREMELY awkward "pro-rating" (it's not actually proportional so it's not really pro-rated) scheme.
seems like the only "game changing" aspect of this is updating the rules of the game to include $500+ ETFs. | |
| | | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? said by putch:right. but normally you get a phone at a subsidized price and if you break your contract at some point you pay the ETF. you keep your handset. you and your provider part ways. end of story. that's why the ETF is justified: to recoup the cost of the subsidy. this is the first time i've ever seen a situation where you have to pay an ETF and also return the subsidy. basically, here, they're, in effect, jacking up the ETF to $525 with an EXTREMELY awkward "pro-rating" (it's not actually proportional so it's not really pro-rated) scheme. seems like the only "game changing" aspect of this is updating the rules of the game to include $500+ ETFs. It's not a "$500+ ETF".
It's a $350 ETF.
To recoup the cost of the subsidy will cost the company $350.
You don't "return" anything. I don't think it's pro-rated either.
If you buy a Droid for $200, then break contract, you pay an additional $375. You don't get a refund on that initial $200.
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My Blog 2.0 | |
| | | | | | Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? No. It is in effect a $500+ ETF. unless I'm wrong, and please correct me, if you cancel in the first 6 months you repay the cost of the subsidy ($350--which is not technically an ETF apparently) AND you also pay the standard T-Mo ETFwhich is, I think, currently $175 and goes down $5 every month to a minimum of $60.
So if you cancel at 5 months you pay $350 (or return the handset) AND you also pay $150 ($175-5*$5) for a total of $500. But if you cancel at 7 months you get keep the handset and you pay $140.
Now i guess it's not really an ETF because they give you the option of giving up your handset (which you already paid $180 for) instead of paying the $350. But still, this is the first time I've ever seen such an arrangement. | |
| | | | | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? said by putch:No. It is in effect a $500+ ETF. unless I'm wrong, and please correct me, if you cancel in the first 6 months you repay the cost of the subsidy ($350--which is not technically an ETF apparently) AND you also pay the standard T-Mo ETFwhich is, I think, currently $175 and goes down $5 every month to a minimum of $60. So if you cancel at 5 months you pay $350 (or return the handset) AND you also pay $150 ($175-5*$5) for a total of $500. But if you cancel at 7 months you get keep the handset and you pay $140. Now i guess it's not really an ETF because they give you the option of giving up your handset (which you already paid $180 for) instead of paying the $350. But still, this is the first time I've ever seen such an arrangement. This is my understanding of how it works.
You buy the phone from Google unsub'ed for $530.
or
You buy the phone from T-Mobile (who is paying the subsidy to Google to purchase at $530) and then charges you $180. If you break the T-Mobile contract, you pay $350 which brings the price of the phone to, essentially, $530.
The new part is the return of the phone for no ETF, I'll give you that.
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My Blog 2.0 | |
| | | | | | | | Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? yeah, but if you return the phone at month 5 you still pay the $150 ETF. and you paid the $180 for the handset originally. so you've paid $330 (not counting usage costs) to use a handset of 5 months and have no device to show for it when it's over. i've never seen anything of the sort before.
but, i guess my point is that if the consumer is required to directly repay the subsidy (or return the handset) then why is there ALSO an ETF if the ETF is designed to recoup the cost of the subsidy? | |
| | | | | | | | using the droid example. you pay the $200 upfront. and at month 5 you break the contract. so you pay the ETF. which is $375 and reduced by $10/month. so you pay $325 to break. but you have the device. whereas with this you break at month 5 and pay $500 total. now i guess it's better with this if you break at month 7 where it's $140 break from t-mo vs. $305 with vzw. but it's just a weird arrangement and it kind of breaks the standard reasoning the carriers have used to justify their ETFs. and really, that seems to be the only "game changer" in this whole thing. It's just another random HTC android phone. Looks nice, yeah. but not radically different than the droid. | |
| | | | | | | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: repay the subsidy AND an ETF? Why is it at month 7 you pay $140? Maybe it's pro-rated so at months 1-5, you pay $350, but after, you pay the standard T-Mobile ETF... Who knows, these are all rumor and/or even faked docs.
The Nexus One is 100x faster than the droid. My friend saw it running a full on Google Earth program.
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My Blog 2.0 | |
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| | | | | | | said by Gbcue:said by putch:No. It is in effect a $500+ ETF. unless I'm wrong, and please correct me, if you cancel in the first 6 months you repay the cost of the subsidy ($350--which is not technically an ETF apparently) AND you also pay the standard T-Mo ETFwhich is, I think, currently $175 and goes down $5 every month to a minimum of $60. So if you cancel at 5 months you pay $350 (or return the handset) AND you also pay $150 ($175-5*$5) for a total of $500. But if you cancel at 7 months you get keep the handset and you pay $140. Now i guess it's not really an ETF because they give you the option of giving up your handset (which you already paid $180 for) instead of paying the $350. But still, this is the first time I've ever seen such an arrangement. This is my understanding of how it works. You buy the phone from Google unsub'ed for $530. or You buy the phone from T-Mobile (who is paying the subsidy to Google to purchase at $530) and then charges you $180. If you break the T-Mobile contract, you pay $350 which brings the price of the phone to, essentially, $530. The new part is the return of the phone for no ETF, I'll give you that. What he's (I think) saying is that paying the full subsidy amount as an ETF on a phone that is already 7 months used, is quite odd. IN fact, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that they need to be investigated for that practice.
If a phone costs $530 new, and I've used it for 7 months, I'm sorry, it's no longer worth full price. The ETF should be prorated downward for sure and I should only have to pay the lower amount - $300 total, assuming 7 months, is fair. That means the $180 I already paid plus $120. But basically the full price of the phone if I had bought it unsub? That's a rip. | |
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