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fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Z80A

Re: If they want to ramp up the uptake...

1. Everybody's increasing prices.

2. Did you really expect that a fiber optic network would be cheap?


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.


tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to fifty nine
paying customers are paying customers. If they want uptake, their pricing needs to be more competitive rather than raising rates.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by tiger72:

paying customers are paying customers. If they want uptake, their pricing needs to be more competitive rather than raising rates.
They're already cheaper than cable in many places. The only reason cable is cheaper in some places is because cable is feeling the heat from competition.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Z80A
said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by fifty nine:

said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.
I see more and more people talking about such a move. Much more than in the past. If it continues, I wouldn't be shocked if more left for cheaper cable.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by Bill Neilson:

I see more and more people talking about such a move. Much more than in the past. If it continues, I wouldn't be shocked if more left for cheaper cable.
Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see actual cancellation. The FiOS fanboys here aren't going to cancel and go back to Comcast and Time Warner.

Besides they have that nasty ETF to deal with. They aint goin' nowhere.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by fifty nine:

said by Bill Neilson:

I see more and more people talking about such a move. Much more than in the past. If it continues, I wouldn't be shocked if more left for cheaper cable.
Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see actual cancellation. The FiOS fanboys here aren't going to cancel and go back to Comcast and Time Warner.

Besides they have that nasty ETF to deal with. They aint goin' nowhere.
Maybe they are lying but I doubt it. If the prices keep increasing and others stay the same, money will talk in the end....as it usually does.

In the last 3-5 months, I have seen more people discussing why they didn't choose FiOS or why they left FiOS and it always came down to price.

Before then, I really hadn't heard a SIGNIFICANT amount of posters ever talk about that. Significant mind you, of course we have always heard a few bitch about price.

Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
reply to fifty nine
Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
--
"Religion allows people who would otherwise be arguing about whether the Death Star could beat a Borg Cube to have a place of respect within society."


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by Corydon:

Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
Agreed but two things make people switch to Verizon.

1. The prices

2. The perception (right or wrong) that FiOS provides an overall better experience.

#1 is a straight numbers game. However, Verizon is offering a lot of deals to sweeten the pot - free this, free that, gift cards etc.

#2 is subjective, especially with Cablevision markets and people who want to keep their analog service. Cablevision in particular has been putting up a damn good fight against FiOS and is even winning in some cases. But things like "more HD channels" and "nerve shattering internet" will drive a lot of people to FiOS.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by fifty nine:

said by Corydon:

Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
Agreed but two things make people switch to Verizon.

1. The prices

2. The perception (right or wrong) that FiOS provides an overall better experience.

#1 is a straight numbers game. However, Verizon is offering a lot of deals to sweeten the pot - free this, free that, gift cards etc.

#2 is subjective, especially with Cablevision markets and people who want to keep their analog service. Cablevision in particular has been putting up a damn good fight against FiOS and is even winning in some cases. But things like "more HD channels" and "nerve shattering internet" will drive a lot of people to FiOS.
Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.


Rob23

@windstream.net
IF you read page 6 of the transcript you get a different view of the take rate. He also said fios " Turned EBITDA positive in 2008 Operating income positive in 2009 which we are close to but not quite there and net income positive "?" the year after that......."


hambone42
Peace, through superior firepower
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
--
Sarcasm is the Body's Natural Defense Against Stupidity

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to Z80A
said by Z80A:

Price is king. Speed isn't.
... sigh... this isn't true... what ever the consumer finds more of a value to them IS king... not everyone shops on price.. not everyone shops on speed..

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by tiger72:

paying customers are paying customers. If they want uptake, their pricing needs to be more competitive rather than raising rates.
They're already cheaper than cable in many places. The only reason cable is cheaper in some places is because cable is feeling the heat from competition.
This is an interesting statement you make... it's funny where the shoe is on the other foot... phone used to RAPE THE HELL out of the consumer until cable came along.. a lot of people seem to forget just how expensive phone was, and quite honestly, still is in many cases.

Phone isn't innocent.. so it's time to stop pretending.

It's about competition.. not phone, not cable, not satellite.. it's competition period.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to hambone42
said by hambone42:

said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
the 17th can't get here soon enough. I want to change my bundle so I can get the 35/35 tier. And if for some unforseen reason I have to move.. oh well..I signed the agreement so I have to pay the ETF. that's life. It certainly won't stop me from getting a new bundle. ETFs have never stopped me before with DirecTV and Comcast. So why would it make any difference with FIOS?


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.
the only downside to fios: AVAILABILITY.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

said by hambone42:

said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
the 17th can't get here soon enough. I want to change my bundle so I can get the 35/35 tier. And if for some unforseen reason I have to move.. oh well..I signed the agreement so I have to pay the ETF. that's life. It certainly won't stop me from getting a new bundle. ETFs have never stopped me before with DirecTV and Comcast. So why would it make any difference with FIOS?
Not everyone has an extra few hundred to cancel a service


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by Bill Neilson:

Not everyone has an extra few hundred to cancel a service
I don't either but I understand that if I sign the contract that I am legally liable for it. And I have no intention of trying to get out of obligations that I approved when I signed up.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to fiberguy
Oh I agree, and I distrust Verizon and big pseudo monopolies in general.

But in the video delivery market there are now several choices, and two choices for many people who don't have a view of the Southern sky.


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
reply to dvd536
And the worst billing on the planet.


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

3 edits
reply to fiberguy
Go look at the DSLR/Archive and you will see speed isn't king, even with the nerds on DSLR. The vast majority avoid the 50/20 tier.

»/archive?f=g&d ··· Graph+it

And for the general population it is even more true. They simply don't buy the fat$ tiers. They buy the cheaper bottom end tiers.

Offering 50/20 doesn't mean anything if it's $99+/mo. Telcos SMOKED cable in new adds when they offered their dirt cheap DSL and then they themselves got smoked when they hiked the prices. Triple play, limited time promos, free this free that...it all speaks to the indisputable fact that price is king.

If speed was king, Verizon would see 100% of available fiber customers buying FiOS over cable or DSL and this whole article is about how people aren't and VZ is stopping to focus on it. They can focus until they are blue in the face. They won't see the big "uptake" they're looking for unless they drop the price.

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
First off, I don't care about any statistic or group thinking from the people on this site.. not one bit.. it's not an accurate depiction of the general buying public, for one...

Second, yes, speed did matter and still does.. people still call for faster speeds.. only, at the same time, they're calling for lower prices.. so I believe there is a little of both in the mix, which is what I just said.

When phone came in with the cheaper rates on DSL, people soon figured out it wasn't a great deal afterall.. look at the number of people dropping land lines for cell and voip. Now that $14 DSL line they were underpricing became $50 and $60 ... and what did you get? a 768 or 1.5 meg line? yea.. that's real value. I'd still rather pay the $42 fee to cable and get those faster speeds that everyone salavates for... daily.

There is also a reason why the 50/20 speeds are priced the way they are.. it's not that they are expensive.. it doesn't cost more to send the same amount of data faster, per say, but it does stop more people from wanting it.. so yes, again, there are people that will shop by price... I said that. I never said "speed was king".. I said that people buy for what they need..

Also.. just becuase VERIZON'S 'fios' is available doesn't mean everyone will jump on it.. are you not getting what I'm saying? People make their own choices for what best suits themselves! You're now saying that Fiber is king.. or should be... I can tell you right now.. if Verizon was my phone provider, I'd STILL take Comcast anyday over dealign with such an incredibly insane phone company such as Verizon.. I'd much rather shove their fiber up their collected butts and see if the light shines out their noses than to use their services.

You forget SOOOO many aspects as to why a consumer makes the choice they do.. MANY people here would jump on VERIZON'S "fios" product becuase people here tend to be more technically included and want fiber.. if you don't see that, you're not reading close enough. Verizon needs to do more than just drop the price to get more customers.. they need to improve thier crappy customer service AND their plague of billing problems as well.. you see, people haven't forgotten that they're stil the nasty phone company they've been beat up by for years... so they're not going to all believe that verizon all the sudden found religion and will be better simply becuase they have fiber service.

You must be young or younger becuase there are many people that still, to this day, HATE the phone company for the years and years of their abusive powers they had government rights over on the people with.. back in the old day, their motto was "we dont' have to care, we're the phone company"...

bottom line.. there is NOT one simple reason why a product succeeds or fails.. there are many reasons.. so to say 'price is king" is invalid.. PERIOD! That may be for you, and those that think like you, but for me.. its many things.. speed, price, offerings, company reputation, policies, and overall value of what I'm getting for my money.. I choose the lesser of the two evils that work for ME..


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by fiberguy:

people still call for faster speeds.. only, at the same time, they're calling for lower prices.. so I believe there is a little of both in the mix, which is what I just said.
Where? Like, can you show me one time someone demanded more speed for LESS than they currently paid?

I see many here complaining (like myself) that I am getting the same service every year yet being charged more and more and more for it.

If I got better service every year, chances are low that I would be complaining when the price increases

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
You'd have to be blind not to see it... it's a common cry here on BBR.. people want more speed and think it should be cheaper since the technology is aged.. Search BBR, you'll find it yourself..

Second, the major cable players, at least, have been charging pretty much the SAME price for years and have increased the speeds.. they RECENTLY have started to inch up the price by a buck or two, or have increased modem rentals, which you're able to buy your own and not rent one. (that's your choice) The rate increases you are likely talking about are those of the video portion.. but interenet prices have largely stayed the same for almost a decade, for the most part.

PHONE on the other hand HAS raised their rates.. they're constantly wheeling and dealing with their prices.. they've fallen as far as $12.95 a month and fluctuate all the time.. that's the phone company and anyone that follows my posts know how I feel about the phone company and their pricing games..

So, you're saying you're not getting better service? and you're on Cox and Comcast? They've both dramatically increased their speeds... and who is to say that you need to see an ANNUAL SPEED INCREASE....? That's a desire, but it's never been implied that they do that..

Again... your interent bills have NOT gone up, with cable at least, anythign dramatic.. yet your speeds have.. from 1.5 to the average 12 meg or more is pretty substantial if you ask me.

I think you're seeing what you want to and ignoring a lot of facts... There are people here ALL THE TIME wanting more and to pay less for it..


hambone42
Peace, through superior firepower
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

I don't either but I understand that if I sign the contract that I am legally liable for it. And I have no intention of trying to get out of obligations that I approved when I signed up.
Exactly my thoughts on the subject.

I just started the second year of a two-year contract for my VZW cellphone. The difference between that situation and FiOS is that if I move from this area, I can take the phone with me and still be reasonably certain I'll be able to use the service. There's no guarantee that I would be able to do the same with FiOS, since I can't predict today when, where, or if I might move within the next two years. I'm not interested in signing a contract with Comcast for a bundle, for the same reasons.

Verizon, Comcast, and the rest are obviously free to establish whatever contractual restrictions they think are smart and/or profitable. I am equally free to decline their terms; I am a little curious, about how they measure or estimate lost sales due to these contract terms.
--
Sarcasm is the Body's Natural Defense Against Stupidity


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

2 edits
reply to fiberguy
Yeah, and when the telcos did drop the prices they got RECORD ADDS, flat smoking cable. They got so many new subscribers they ran out of slot capacity in a lot of central offices. »news.cnet.com/Can-DSL-handle-suc ··· 271.html They raised their prices to cut demand. It's a very simple concept because price is king. Period. VZ isn't going to get the adds they want at the prices they're charging. Period.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

1 edit
reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:

You'd have to be blind not to see it... it's a common cry here on BBR.. people want more speed and think it should be cheaper since the technology is aged.. Search BBR, you'll find it yourself..
I have....I can't find one person wanting better service for LESS than what they are paying for now.

Maybe you could find me one person....since YOU said it?

BTW, Comcast/Cox were past services. I do not have either anymore. I just reviewed them and had them pegged on me. For Cox, I went 3 years without any sort of speed upgrade yet ended up paying 20% more by the time I left it. So, yes, I got the same service for more money every year.

If companies want to raise rates, fine...we all work and want a profit....but to do so yearly without any yearly upgrades is a joke and worthy of complaining


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
I want 1Gb service for $0. There. You found one.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by Z80A:

I want 1Gb service for $0. There. You found one.
Ok, two