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Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
reply to fifty nine

Re: If they want to ramp up the uptake...

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by fifty nine:

said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.
I see more and more people talking about such a move. Much more than in the past. If it continues, I wouldn't be shocked if more left for cheaper cable.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by Bill Neilson:

I see more and more people talking about such a move. Much more than in the past. If it continues, I wouldn't be shocked if more left for cheaper cable.
Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see actual cancellation. The FiOS fanboys here aren't going to cancel and go back to Comcast and Time Warner.

Besides they have that nasty ETF to deal with. They aint goin' nowhere.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by fifty nine:

said by Bill Neilson:

I see more and more people talking about such a move. Much more than in the past. If it continues, I wouldn't be shocked if more left for cheaper cable.
Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see actual cancellation. The FiOS fanboys here aren't going to cancel and go back to Comcast and Time Warner.

Besides they have that nasty ETF to deal with. They aint goin' nowhere.
Maybe they are lying but I doubt it. If the prices keep increasing and others stay the same, money will talk in the end....as it usually does.

In the last 3-5 months, I have seen more people discussing why they didn't choose FiOS or why they left FiOS and it always came down to price.

Before then, I really hadn't heard a SIGNIFICANT amount of posters ever talk about that. Significant mind you, of course we have always heard a few bitch about price.

Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
reply to fifty nine
Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
--
"Religion allows people who would otherwise be arguing about whether the Death Star could beat a Borg Cube to have a place of respect within society."


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by Corydon:

Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
Agreed but two things make people switch to Verizon.

1. The prices

2. The perception (right or wrong) that FiOS provides an overall better experience.

#1 is a straight numbers game. However, Verizon is offering a lot of deals to sweeten the pot - free this, free that, gift cards etc.

#2 is subjective, especially with Cablevision markets and people who want to keep their analog service. Cablevision in particular has been putting up a damn good fight against FiOS and is even winning in some cases. But things like "more HD channels" and "nerve shattering internet" will drive a lot of people to FiOS.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by fifty nine:

said by Corydon:

Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
Agreed but two things make people switch to Verizon.

1. The prices

2. The perception (right or wrong) that FiOS provides an overall better experience.

#1 is a straight numbers game. However, Verizon is offering a lot of deals to sweeten the pot - free this, free that, gift cards etc.

#2 is subjective, especially with Cablevision markets and people who want to keep their analog service. Cablevision in particular has been putting up a damn good fight against FiOS and is even winning in some cases. But things like "more HD channels" and "nerve shattering internet" will drive a lot of people to FiOS.
Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.


Rob23

@windstream.net
IF you read page 6 of the transcript you get a different view of the take rate. He also said fios " Turned EBITDA positive in 2008 Operating income positive in 2009 which we are close to but not quite there and net income positive "?" the year after that......."


hambone42
Peace, through superior firepower
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
--
Sarcasm is the Body's Natural Defense Against Stupidity

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to Z80A
said by Z80A:

Price is king. Speed isn't.
... sigh... this isn't true... what ever the consumer finds more of a value to them IS king... not everyone shops on price.. not everyone shops on speed..


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to hambone42
said by hambone42:

said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
the 17th can't get here soon enough. I want to change my bundle so I can get the 35/35 tier. And if for some unforseen reason I have to move.. oh well..I signed the agreement so I have to pay the ETF. that's life. It certainly won't stop me from getting a new bundle. ETFs have never stopped me before with DirecTV and Comcast. So why would it make any difference with FIOS?


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.
the only downside to fios: AVAILABILITY.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

said by hambone42:

said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
the 17th can't get here soon enough. I want to change my bundle so I can get the 35/35 tier. And if for some unforseen reason I have to move.. oh well..I signed the agreement so I have to pay the ETF. that's life. It certainly won't stop me from getting a new bundle. ETFs have never stopped me before with DirecTV and Comcast. So why would it make any difference with FIOS?
Not everyone has an extra few hundred to cancel a service


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by Bill Neilson:

Not everyone has an extra few hundred to cancel a service
I don't either but I understand that if I sign the contract that I am legally liable for it. And I have no intention of trying to get out of obligations that I approved when I signed up.


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
reply to dvd536
And the worst billing on the planet.


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

3 edits
reply to fiberguy
Go look at the DSLR/Archive and you will see speed isn't king, even with the nerds on DSLR. The vast majority avoid the 50/20 tier.

»/archive?f=g&d···Graph+it

And for the general population it is even more true. They simply don't buy the fat$ tiers. They buy the cheaper bottom end tiers.

Offering 50/20 doesn't mean anything if it's $99+/mo. Telcos SMOKED cable in new adds when they offered their dirt cheap DSL and then they themselves got smoked when they hiked the prices. Triple play, limited time promos, free this free that...it all speaks to the indisputable fact that price is king.

If speed was king, Verizon would see 100% of available fiber customers buying FiOS over cable or DSL and this whole article is about how people aren't and VZ is stopping to focus on it. They can focus until they are blue in the face. They won't see the big "uptake" they're looking for unless they drop the price.

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
First off, I don't care about any statistic or group thinking from the people on this site.. not one bit.. it's not an accurate depiction of the general buying public, for one...

Second, yes, speed did matter and still does.. people still call for faster speeds.. only, at the same time, they're calling for lower prices.. so I believe there is a little of both in the mix, which is what I just said.

When phone came in with the cheaper rates on DSL, people soon figured out it wasn't a great deal afterall.. look at the number of people dropping land lines for cell and voip. Now that $14 DSL line they were underpricing became $50 and $60 ... and what did you get? a 768 or 1.5 meg line? yea.. that's real value. I'd still rather pay the $42 fee to cable and get those faster speeds that everyone salavates for... daily.

There is also a reason why the 50/20 speeds are priced the way they are.. it's not that they are expensive.. it doesn't cost more to send the same amount of data faster, per say, but it does stop more people from wanting it.. so yes, again, there are people that will shop by price... I said that. I never said "speed was king".. I said that people buy for what they need..

Also.. just becuase VERIZON'S 'fios' is available doesn't mean everyone will jump on it.. are you not getting what I'm saying? People make their own choices for what best suits themselves! You're now saying that Fiber is king.. or should be... I can tell you right now.. if Verizon was my phone provider, I'd STILL take Comcast anyday over dealign with such an incredibly insane phone company such as Verizon.. I'd much rather shove their fiber up their collected butts and see if the light shines out their noses than to use their services.

You forget SOOOO many aspects as to why a consumer makes the choice they do.. MANY people here would jump on VERIZON'S "fios" product becuase people here tend to be more technically included and want fiber.. if you don't see that, you're not reading close enough. Verizon needs to do more than just drop the price to get more customers.. they need to improve thier crappy customer service AND their plague of billing problems as well.. you see, people haven't forgotten that they're stil the nasty phone company they've been beat up by for years... so they're not going to all believe that verizon all the sudden found religion and will be better simply becuase they have fiber service.

You must be young or younger becuase there are many people that still, to this day, HATE the phone company for the years and years of their abusive powers they had government rights over on the people with.. back in the old day, their motto was "we dont' have to care, we're the phone company"...

bottom line.. there is NOT one simple reason why a product succeeds or fails.. there are many reasons.. so to say 'price is king" is invalid.. PERIOD! That may be for you, and those that think like you, but for me.. its many things.. speed, price, offerings, company reputation, policies, and overall value of what I'm getting for my money.. I choose the lesser of the two evils that work for ME..


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by fiberguy:

people still call for faster speeds.. only, at the same time, they're calling for lower prices.. so I believe there is a little of both in the mix, which is what I just said.
Where? Like, can you show me one time someone demanded more speed for LESS than they currently paid?

I see many here complaining (like myself) that I am getting the same service every year yet being charged more and more and more for it.

If I got better service every year, chances are low that I would be complaining when the price increases

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
You'd have to be blind not to see it... it's a common cry here on BBR.. people want more speed and think it should be cheaper since the technology is aged.. Search BBR, you'll find it yourself..

Second, the major cable players, at least, have been charging pretty much the SAME price for years and have increased the speeds.. they RECENTLY have started to inch up the price by a buck or two, or have increased modem rentals, which you're able to buy your own and not rent one. (that's your choice) The rate increases you are likely talking about are those of the video portion.. but interenet prices have largely stayed the same for almost a decade, for the most part.

PHONE on the other hand HAS raised their rates.. they're constantly wheeling and dealing with their prices.. they've fallen as far as $12.95 a month and fluctuate all the time.. that's the phone company and anyone that follows my posts know how I feel about the phone company and their pricing games..

So, you're saying you're not getting better service? and you're on Cox and Comcast? They've both dramatically increased their speeds... and who is to say that you need to see an ANNUAL SPEED INCREASE....? That's a desire, but it's never been implied that they do that..

Again... your interent bills have NOT gone up, with cable at least, anythign dramatic.. yet your speeds have.. from 1.5 to the average 12 meg or more is pretty substantial if you ask me.

I think you're seeing what you want to and ignoring a lot of facts... There are people here ALL THE TIME wanting more and to pay less for it..


hambone42
Peace, through superior firepower
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

I don't either but I understand that if I sign the contract that I am legally liable for it. And I have no intention of trying to get out of obligations that I approved when I signed up.
Exactly my thoughts on the subject.

I just started the second year of a two-year contract for my VZW cellphone. The difference between that situation and FiOS is that if I move from this area, I can take the phone with me and still be reasonably certain I'll be able to use the service. There's no guarantee that I would be able to do the same with FiOS, since I can't predict today when, where, or if I might move within the next two years. I'm not interested in signing a contract with Comcast for a bundle, for the same reasons.

Verizon, Comcast, and the rest are obviously free to establish whatever contractual restrictions they think are smart and/or profitable. I am equally free to decline their terms; I am a little curious, about how they measure or estimate lost sales due to these contract terms.
--
Sarcasm is the Body's Natural Defense Against Stupidity


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

2 edits
reply to fiberguy
Yeah, and when the telcos did drop the prices they got RECORD ADDS, flat smoking cable. They got so many new subscribers they ran out of slot capacity in a lot of central offices. »news.cnet.com/Can-DSL-handle-suc···271.html They raised their prices to cut demand. It's a very simple concept because price is king. Period. VZ isn't going to get the adds they want at the prices they're charging. Period.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

1 edit
reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:

You'd have to be blind not to see it... it's a common cry here on BBR.. people want more speed and think it should be cheaper since the technology is aged.. Search BBR, you'll find it yourself..
I have....I can't find one person wanting better service for LESS than what they are paying for now.

Maybe you could find me one person....since YOU said it?

BTW, Comcast/Cox were past services. I do not have either anymore. I just reviewed them and had them pegged on me. For Cox, I went 3 years without any sort of speed upgrade yet ended up paying 20% more by the time I left it. So, yes, I got the same service for more money every year.

If companies want to raise rates, fine...we all work and want a profit....but to do so yearly without any yearly upgrades is a joke and worthy of complaining


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
I want 1Gb service for $0. There. You found one.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by Z80A:

I want 1Gb service for $0. There. You found one.
Ok, two

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to Bill Neilson
Like I said... I'm not going to do your homework.. you obviously don't read this site very often.. I have MUCH better things to do than play tit-for-tat with you... it's a very well known desire here on this site... It's VERY well known that a good majority of the people here EXPECT prices to go down while speeds go up.. I don't even believe, to be honest, that you looked... finding this opinion is like tripping over a startbucks in Seattle.

And, as I said about your rate increases... THE MAJORITY OF MAJOR PLAYERS HAVE NOT raised their rates on HSI over the past decade.. however, their speeds increased dramatically.. just becuase you are saying that YOUR rates did increase, oh well.. that's your personal experience.. however, the majority of people never saw rate increases.. it, too, is well known.

Comcast has been selling HSI now for $42.95 in the overwhelming majority of their markets for almost 7 years now. Time Warner has barely seen any rate increases on HSI... yet speeds increased. Still, there is nothing that said speeds have to increase everytime rates go up. rate increases are bound to happen in just about any environment as a cost of living.. it's a fact. So what.. get over it.

And, as for your rates increasing.. what increased? what did you start with, and what did you end up with? and.. was it equipment? was it the service itself? was it also partly your video services? Blanket statements, when it's very well known about HSI prices in cable have stayed basically the same, UNTIL RECENTLY as some providers have bumped their rates by about a buck, aren't going to change the over all facts.. I'm not talking about YOU specifically.. some people do see increases.. I'm talking about the industry as a whole.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
So your argument cents around how people here want MORE services for LESS than what they pay at the moment.....yet when asked where you get that....you can't show a single post of someone?

Considering you past it along as common here, I would think you would be finding many.....not just 1-2

Just stating something doesn't make it true

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to Z80A
said by Z80A:

Yeah, and when the telcos did drop the prices they got RECORD ADDS, flat smoking cable. They got so many new subscribers they ran out of slot capacity in a lot of central offices. »news.cnet.com/Can-DSL-handle-suc···271.html They raised their prices to cut demand. It's a very simple concept because price is king. Period. VZ isn't going to get the adds they want at the prices they're charging. Period.
Ummmm. try again. In order for your statement to be factually correct IN WHOLE, cable would have had to see a dramatic drop in their subscriber rates.. and there wasn't.

What phone got were many people swapping from dial up to budget priced DSL.. yea.. they maxed out services.. big deal... however, people didn't flock from cable service to DSL in order to buy a phone line for $30 a month and $15 a month DSL so they could pay more and get less speed.

and they didn't "flat smoke cable"... please check your numbers and try again ... (there.. there's a phone reference for ya.)

Cable's overall HSI rate has rarely taken a dip.. and certainly didn't during the phone companies undercutting their prices..

The price cutting of DSL was purely a ploy started by phone prior to their advancement of video services... even ATT admiited from the mouth of the CEO himself.. and I quote loosley.. "The rock bottom prices are a good lure to get new subscribers to our HSI product now in advance of our introduction of our video services. Once we have their captive attention, it's easier to market to an exisitng customer base than driving new customers through the door"... however, what phone customers found out was that the DSL product was VERY poorly supported (any VZ customers here want to share their horror stories of the 20 hurdles you had to jump through to even get a tech visit?) Further, like I said, many of those block buster custoemr numebrs were dial up customers... and, when the prices went up after the intial offer, many customers either upgraded, dropped their landline for cell phone service, or went into one of cable's triple play offers, which were cheaper than the phone offering in the long run.

Still, your opinion isn't exactly accurate.. but I respect that it's your 'opinion'... but your facts aren't correct... well, except that yes, SOME CO's had back orders on new customers.. so even then, with maxing out the CO's cards, you can't exactly really have a slamming success with subscriber growth since they maxed out at what they could possibly sell anyway.

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to Bill Neilson
No.. i just don't play the "if you can't post it, it's not true" game... I remain on my point...

I'll let others here chime in if they want.. go through the HSI forums.. you'll find it all over the place.. same with the news archives... I have better things to do than play this game with you.

And like wise to you.. just becuase you say it's NOT so, doesn't make it so... you can be right in your mind if you want.. but I'm right in reality.

I'm done with your play ground game of "you said it, now go find it" crap..


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

4 edits
reply to fiberguy
Wrong. New adds come from many sources including dial up converts. They SMOKED cable in adds for the quarter. VZ beat Comcast in new adds quarter after quarter by over 20%. And Comcast didn't beat VZ again in quarterly adds until VZ raised the price. Price is king.

And I don't give two squirts of piss what the douche at AT&T says. All of this is simply proof of one thing.

PRICE IS KING. Always has been. Always will be. That's not opinion. That is irrefutable fact. VZ can push all the 50/20 plans they want...it won't matter for shit. Put a plan out there for $39.99 and they'll get adds. Drop their triple play to $95/mo and they'll get adds. Fix the billing? Won't matter. Raise the speeds? Won't matter.