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gramzee

join:2010-03-10
L9T7T8
reply to TSI Martin

Re: Everything MLPPP

To confirm I can expect to pay monthly for DSL Rate + 2 x Band Rates + $4 for MLPPP? Any other costs I should expect? eg. Costs involved with setting up the dry loop? This will be a brand new built house. Obviously costs for hardware and activation are seperate.


gramzee

join:2010-03-10
L9T7T8
reply to TSI Martin

Hi guys, I determined today that I'll be looking elsewhere other than D-Link for compatability with MLPPP on a router. I was hoping one of our business class router/firewalls could do it. That said, I was looking at the list of routers that support Tomato (understood that Tomato/MLPPP while it should work with others has only been tested by the developer on the WRT54G). I was hoping if anyone can share their experiences with other routers than the WRT54G, such as the WRTSL54GS or Netgear WNR3500 series routers. I'm looking at these in particular as I like the fact their specs are higher than most with a more powerful processor and higher amounts of RAM.

Thanks for providing your feedback!



clarknova

join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB
kudos:7
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

The HCL for the official Tomato builds is found at www.polarcloud.com/tomato. If you look for the latest release announcement in this forum you'll find a build of the ND version, which I've been running on the ASUS WL-520gu for about a day in total, without incident.

I can't comment on the higher-powered models you listed, but if you're looking for something with a little more heft you could always try pfsense, which on an inexpensive alix or atom board would far outperform any mips board for comparable outlay.
--
db


PhoenixAura

join:2010-02-11
North York, ON
reply to TSI Martin

I'm running it on the Asus WL-520GU, and haven't had any issues.

I've also recommended an MLPPP setup to a client company of mine, and have purchased the ASUS WL-520GU to act as the front-end router that will sit just in-front of the corporate firewall.

Obviously, right now, since the deployment of Multi-link PPP is not widespread, most small to mid-size equipment vendors have chosen not to include support for MLPPP in their products (SonicWALL, Cisco Linksys, etc.). However, Routerboard supplies an enterprise-class product that apparently supports MLPPP deployments of up to 5-bonded lines: »www.routerboard.com/pricelist.ph···oduct=90

The MRRP is roughly $70 USD, so it's actually pretty cheap considering the capabilities. I would rather deploy this product, as opposed to Tomato, because it is "officially" supported by the vendor, and routerboard's products are known for performance and stability.

I know there are a few others on here testing out the Routerboard product, so maybe they can fill you in on the details, as I have yet to actually test one out for myself.


gramzee

join:2010-03-10
L9T7T8
reply to TSI Martin

pheonixaura .... interesting I just came across another thread that was promoting that mikrotik router and it's OS. I'm currently reading this »www.mikrotik.com/pdf/what_is_routeros.pdf
which appears to say that you can run the OS itself on an x86 box. Now i'm wondering about making a mini-itx box with this OS. Probably overkill on speed, but hey, then you'd won't be asking yourself if you can do it faster for a longtime

But I'm still researching, might find out can't do it this way either. Basically I think right now, I want MLPPP and VLAN in a single box of some sort.


PhoenixAura

join:2010-02-11
North York, ON

Apparently, RouterOS will support all that.

I wouldn't mess around with a miniITX. What for? Now you have to concern yourself with hardware, drivers, etc.

Grab the pre-fab unit direct from Mikrotik. You can always phone them first and confirm that it will provide you with all of the necessary feature and functionality you're searching for.

If you're set on going the mini-ITX route, why even pay for RouterOS? Just install a free Linux-distro and build a multi-link PPP router yourself... ....or install PFSense (also free), etc. There are even other options as well, such as ZeroShell (Web Interface, so it's easier than using command-line to create necessary rules yourself), Slax Router (another Linux run-off --> »slaxrouter.sourceforge.net/gallery.html), etc.

There are more options, but you get the idea. In all honesty, I'm looking for an MLPPP bridge device. I'm waiting for the day when someone (Thompson?) builds a dual- or quad-port DSL modem, with an internal MLPPP bridge configuration, so that it simply provides the MLPPP link, and forwards all other traffic (including DHCP / WAN IP) directly to the firewall sitting behind it.


yp_1

join:2009-12-31
reply to gramzee

If this is a new area, you better check with Teksavvy support on DSL service availability. Very often new areas don't get DSL service right away so you may have to get stuck with Rogers for a while (happened to me a couple of times).


txr13

join:2010-03-17
Surrey, BC
reply to TSI Martin

Pardon me if I'm asking a question that's already been answered and I missed it...

Is this also available in Western Canada, specifically Vancouver?


mofoo

join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON
reply to TSI Martin

Hai Guyz!
Don't forget router config!
»mlppp.teksavvy.com/
Screenshots on how to set up tom/mlppp. The miscellaneous settings are important for performance


ericv_888

join:2010-04-25
Saint-Etienne-De-Lauzon, QC
reply to TSI Martin

Hi

I'm thinking of switching to teksavvy, and I want to know it it is possible to enable MLPPP on a Asus RT-N12 router using third party firmware such as Tomato or DD-WRT. I know that their are some builds that support the Asus RT-N12, I just don't know if MLPPP is supported in these builds.



Raskolnikov

@dsl.bell.ca
reply to TSI Martin

I will be switching to Teksavvy at the end of this month and was wondering if there is a chance of building Tomato/MLPPP from the Tomato ND USB Mod branch at »www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showt···?t=60185

Doing so not only brings USB support, but more importantly, support for the 2.6 branch of the Linux kernel (as well as the current 2.4 branch), support for a number of newer routers (including wireless N ones), and more active development.

More specifically, kernel-2.6 allows for stateful packet inspection with ipv6 and all routers currently supported in Tomato/MLPPP can be moved to the 2.6 branch. From the outside, this seems like a win-win situation.


Vihsadas

join:2003-12-08
Montreal, QC
reply to TSI Martin

Noob Questions:

Currently have a landline and Dynamic IP DSL 5M set up with Teksavvy.

1) I understand that to run MLPPP to bond two lines you need two physical lines of copper, two DSL services, Static IP Service.
In a single phone jack, usually you have access to two lines (Can split the jack via a line splitter, and have two phone lines on one phone for example). Can I use a line splitter at the single jack in my wall to run two modems, or do I have to split it at the demarcation point?

2) Is there a way to easily test that your home already has two lines running to it?
I rewired a bunch of my phone jacks (At the phone jack level) to have access to my current single line. However, there are a few jacks that are miswired: they have two of the four internal wires going to the pins in the phone jack, but those are the "wrong" wires to have access to my currently subscribed phone line/DSL (haven't gotten around to changing them yet).
Would these jacks potentially be "pre-wired" correctly for a future new Dry loop, or landline I would purchase through Teksavvy? Could I hook up my second modem here?
How would I test that before I buy?

The reason I ask is because I live in a pretty dense apartment building, and don't know/may not have access to my demarc...I haven't found it yet.
Sry for the noobishness.



clarknova

join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB
kudos:7
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Vihsadas:

1) I understand that to run MLPPP to bond two lines you need two physical lines of copper, two DSL services, Static IP Service.
All true except the static IP. You need the mlppp option from TSI, which is $4/month. A static IP is no extra charge if you have the mlppp option, so in most cases you may as well get it.

quote:
In a single phone jack, usually you have access to two lines (Can split the jack via a line splitter, and have two phone lines on one phone for example). Can I use a line splitter at the single jack in my wall to run two modems, or do I have to split it at the demarcation point?
Whatever gives you access to that second pair of copper. If you have a line splitter that will do that then it should work.

quote:
2) Is there a way to easily test that your home already has two lines running to it?
The easiest way, especially in an apartment building, is probably to call your phone company and order a second phone line. I don't know about Montreal, but in Telus country you can get a month free with free connection. If you're not so lucky you can just order a second DSL line and the provider will let you know if there's a problem.

quote:
I rewired a bunch of my phone jacks (At the phone jack level) to have access to my current single line. However, there are a few jacks that are miswired: they have two of the four internal wires going to the pins in the phone jack, but those are the "wrong" wires to have access to my currently subscribed phone line/DSL (haven't gotten around to changing them yet).
Would these jacks potentially be "pre-wired" correctly for a future new Dry loop, or landline I would purchase through Teksavvy? Could I hook up my second modem here?
How would I test that before I buy?
The only way to test without service is by accessing the demarc. If you can't, then you can't. I ordered a second DSL line in my home, knowing that there was a second pair of copper coming in, and was told they couldn't hook me up because Telus didn't recognize the second circuit. TSI didn't charge me a thing until Telus had come in and activated the second circuit. I don't think you stand to lose anything by requesting the second line.
--
db

Vihsadas

join:2003-12-08
Montreal, QC

said by clarknova:

said by Vihsadas:

1) I understand that to run MLPPP to bond two lines you need two physical lines of copper, two DSL services, Static IP Service.
All true except the static IP. You need the mlppp option from TSI, which is $4/month. A static IP is no extra charge if you have the mlppp option, so in most cases you may as well get it.

quote:
In a single phone jack, usually you have access to two lines (Can split the jack via a line splitter, and have two phone lines on one phone for example). Can I use a line splitter at the single jack in my wall to run two modems, or do I have to split it at the demarcation point?
Whatever gives you access to that second pair of copper. If you have a line splitter that will do that then it should work.

quote:
2) Is there a way to easily test that your home already has two lines running to it?
The easiest way, especially in an apartment building, is probably to call your phone company and order a second phone line. I don't know about Montreal, but in Telus country you can get a month free with free connection. If you're not so lucky you can just order a second DSL line and the provider will let you know if there's a problem.

quote:
I rewired a bunch of my phone jacks (At the phone jack level) to have access to my current single line. However, there are a few jacks that are miswired: they have two of the four internal wires going to the pins in the phone jack, but those are the "wrong" wires to have access to my currently subscribed phone line/DSL (haven't gotten around to changing them yet).
Would these jacks potentially be "pre-wired" correctly for a future new Dry loop, or landline I would purchase through Teksavvy? Could I hook up my second modem here?
How would I test that before I buy?
The only way to test without service is by accessing the demarc. If you can't, then you can't. I ordered a second DSL line in my home, knowing that there was a second pair of copper coming in, and was told they couldn't hook me up because Telus didn't recognize the second circuit. TSI didn't charge me a thing until Telus had come in and activated the second circuit. I don't think you stand to lose anything by requesting the second line.
Cool, I understand now. Thanks for the information, it was very helpful!


moggy

join:2006-01-08
Peterborough, ON

1 edit
reply to TSI Martin

I noticed my bill today
that I am being charged
$4 for a static Ip and another $4 for Mlppp

I thought it was one charge of $4 covers all

39.95 for cogent residential 5mb
4. for static Ip
4. for Mlpp
47.95 total

this has now been fixed it was an error over the last 2 bills
--
Up yours Jack Your alright but I am A dyslexic dysgraphic Fibromyalgiac mental case

have you ever met a beaver you can trust?



MALific2

@teksavvy.com
reply to TSI Martin

Ok, I have a weird issue for you guys.

I have been using MLPPP with Tekksavvy for the last 6 month without a single issue. Then 2 days ago, I wake up and my connection won't work anymore. "Alright, let's figure this out."

Call tek, talk with the (very nice) guy on the phone for over an hour. Try a bunch of stuff. In the end, we discover that the connection is not the issue (I connect fine to the service) BUT it's my router. Now, absolutely nothing happenned to it yet it suddently stopped working. He suggested that I upgrade the firmware (which I did) and that was all he could offer.

So now i'm stuck there... I can't get the friggin' router to work. I can get to 192.168.1.1 ... see all the details (removed stuff just in case but it's filled):

Model Linksys WRT54G/GS/GL

Time Not Available
Uptime 0 days, 00:06:31
CPU Load (1 / 5 / 15 mins) 0.26 / 0.17 / 0.07
Total / Free Memory 14.18 MB / 3,816.00 KB (26.28%)

WAN
MAC Address
Connection Type PPPoE
IP Address 206...
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.255
Gateway 206...
DNS 206.248...
MTU 1500

Status 1 of 1 Connected
MLPPP Single-link
Connection Uptime 0 days, 00:01:16

Anybody's got an idea what's happening?!
Thanks guys!



mtlowes

@cgocable.net
reply to TSI Martin

=> 255.255.255.255??
Don't look right, always thought it was 255.255.255.252


33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2
reply to TSI Martin

but i thought bce would limit each account holder to 60gb
that means if you get 7 mlppp lines you'd have wicked down and upspeed but a total cap of 60GB, which makes the need for any mlppp literally too expensive



rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to TSI Martin

I'm interested in bonding two lines together. Never dealt with DSL before, been a cable man forever. I've heard of this MLPPP, but how exactly does it work? Reason I'm interested in it is for the upload speed. I need more than 1Mb upload, and I'm hoping I would be able to get more than 1Mb with this. I currently have one phone line with Telus, and my ISP is Shaw. I'm spending $96/month now for 25x2 (Warp tier), now I don't need that much download anyways. What kind of speeds could I see with this MLPPP, and what is the best way to go about doing this? Dry loop? ADSL? Any help would be greatly appreciated.



clarknova

join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB
kudos:7
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

PPP overhead is said to be ~10-14%, and you must consider the possibility that your phone lines won't be in perfect condition, and therefore you may not get top speed.

I'm on a pair of so-called 6/1 connections in Telus-land. My modems sync at 6144/896 and 6144/960. mlppp reduces your bond to a multiple of the slowest modem in the bundle, so my sync rate is effectively 2 * 6144/896 or 12,288/1792. My actual measured throughput (so not counting ppp overhead) is 10,500/1430.

I pay dry loop fees of $14.18 on each line, so my total bill is around $100 monthly. You're getting better speed for the money, but lower caps.

I don't know whether I might get higher sync rates if my line condition was better, but I expect that if you want more than 2 mbit u/l speed then you'll need at least 3 bonded Telus/TSI connections, best case. If you're still entertaining the idea and want to try it out, I recommend ordering one of Telus' first-month-free internet bundles. See what sync rates you get on the modems, then decide if it's worth pursuing (the second and third modems should get similar sync rates to the first).

If you really don't care about d/l speed then you could save a few bucks going with multiple 3/1 packages.

When you make the switch from Telus to TSI, expect Telus to mess it up. Your connection will be slow/unreliable/unusable, and you will have to call or message TSI many times to get it resolved. Telus will blame you or your equipment, but since you know the line worked when it was under a Telus account, you will have ammunition to go back and insist that they fix it. Once you get the first connection working well on TSI, repeat the process. In my experience you can get about 1 working connection per month this way.
--
db



rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to TSI Martin

So you are doing mlppp on telus? Didn't know you could that on telus as well. Basically what I wanna know is if I can get 1.5Mb upload or more for less than $95 a month. Download speed isn't a huge deal. I'd be happy with 6-7Mb download, and similar upload. I do a fair amount of upload to remote servers, and I also do remote stuff from work on my home computers. I don't download much though, which is why I don't need lots of download speed. I just don't like paying Shaw $95/month for a rip off service. I can only get 10Mb download on a tier that is suppost to be 25Mb download. Anyways, thanks for all the help.



clarknova

join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB
kudos:7
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by rustydusty:

So you are doing mlppp on telus?
Well, no. It's a Teksavvy account in Telus territory, so from here to Vancouver it runs on Telus infrastructure. And it's not officially supported by TSI, although I haven't had a problem with it in the month I've been on it.

what I wanna know is if I can get 1.5Mb upload or more for less than $95 a month.
That's a big maybe. Like I said, I'm getting 1.4 mbps of actual throughput for a hair over $100. If your phone line is of better quality than mine you may get 1.5 mbps or better, and if your dry loop fee is less than $14, or if you have a phone line or 2 on premises, which I don't, then you can save yourself the dry loop fee once or twice. Also because TSI doesn't support mlppp in the west, they don't charge you the $4 fee for it, unless you need a static IP.

So it's possible you could get your 1.5 for under $100, but I warn you that Telus will fumble your hookup, so get ready for a ride.
--
db


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB

said by clarknova:

said by rustydusty:

So you are doing mlppp on telus?
Well, no. It's a Teksavvy account in Telus territory, so from here to Vancouver it runs on Telus infrastructure. And it's not officially supported by TSI, although I haven't had a problem with it in the month I've been on it.

what I wanna know is if I can get 1.5Mb upload or more for less than $95 a month.
That's a big maybe. Like I said, I'm getting 1.4 mbps of actual throughput for a hair over $100. If your phone line is of better quality than mine you may get 1.5 mbps or better, and if your dry loop fee is less than $14, or if you have a phone line or 2 on premises, which I don't, then you can save yourself the dry loop fee once or twice. Also because TSI doesn't support mlppp in the west, they don't charge you the $4 fee for it, unless you need a static IP.

So it's possible you could get your 1.5 for under $100, but I warn you that Telus will fumble your hookup, so get ready for a ride.
I'm better off staying with Shaw's Warp then until something else comes along. Just seems like a rip off for 15x2 for $100/month. Only thing Tek has over Shaw is their caps are a lot higher. Price is similar though.


robotank

join:2008-03-02
Hamilton, ON
reply to TSI Martin

I'm a new TekSavvy customer and new to this MLPPP thing, and after reading what I can find on DSLReports and TekSavvy's MLPPP page, I'm still a little unclear on something. I signed up for MLPPP (and static IP) purely to bypass Bell's throttling (I'd love to bond two lines, but I can't afford it at the moment). I have a new Thomson TG585 Gateway with the Thomson firmware on it. It's connected to the Internet through PPPoE using my MLPPP login. Does this achieve the MLPPP connection, or do I need to install Tomato on my router? I apologize if I've missed something obvious. I'm hoping someone here will be willing to help out a noob. Thanks in advance.



TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33

You would need a router that can support the Tomato/MLPPP firmware. The TG 585 would need to be set in Bridge mode for you to use with a compatible router. If I can assume you are in Alberta, then you shouldn't be affected by the Throttling right now.
--
TSI Martin - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »»TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )



robotank

join:2008-03-02
Hamilton, ON

said by TSI Martin:

You would need a router that can support the Tomato/MLPPP firmware. The TG 585 would need to be set in Bridge mode for you to use with a compatible router. If I can assume you are in Alberta, then you shouldn't be affected by the Throttling right now.
Whoops, I forgot to update my location. I'm actually in Hamilton, Ontario now. Anyway, thanks for the reply. I guess I should have done a little more research before paying for the TG585. I don't think the employee who I did the original sale with was entirely clear on what I'd need for the MLPPP. I seem to remember his telling me that the Linksys was only for people bonding lines together and I wouldn't need it. Oh well. I guess I'll have to pick up a compatible router when I can afford it. Thanks again, Martin.


TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33

well if you are on a single computer, you can always use the Broadband connection in Windows with the MLPPP check to connect it that way.
--
TSI Martin - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »»TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )



robotank

join:2008-03-02
Hamilton, ON

I'm on OS X Snow Leopard. I looked around, and it seems that running a VM is my only option other than buying the Linksys or another compatible router. One more thing to clarify: the Linksys is only a router, not a modem/router? and putting the Thomson in bridge mode means that it simply acts as a modem and passes the routing on to the other router connected to it? Thanks.



clarknova

join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB
kudos:7
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by robotank:

I'm on OS X Snow Leopard. I looked around, and it seems that running a VM is my only option other than buying the Linksys or another compatible router.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a way to get OSX to do mlppp, although perhaps not in the GUI.

One more thing to clarify: the Linksys is only a router, not a modem/router? and putting the Thomson in bridge mode means that it simply acts as a modem and passes the routing on to the other router connected to it? Thanks.
Correct.
--
db


robotank

join:2008-03-02
Hamilton, ON

Thanks for the reply, claknova. I'm getting around the P2P throttling for now by another method. However, since I've only been using the Thomson gateway for a couple days, I'm thinking of calling TekSavvy customer service tomorrow to see if I can send it back and get a Linksys and the cheapest Thomson modem instead.