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Underplay

join:2003-10-19
Tacoma, WA

Usenet + Encryption / Private BitTorrent

They can't stop freedom

cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
My thoughts exactly, when the MAFIAA (+ ISPs sometimes) sets out to build a better cat/mouse trap, a better mouse will be built.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to Underplay
said by Underplay:

They can't stop freedom
So freedom is not paying for stuff you should? Please go to work and tell your boss you will now work for free so their customers can get free shit. Of course I am assuming you actually have a job.
Expand your moderator at work

zipjay

join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY

2 recommendations

reply to 88615298

Re: Usenet + Encryption / Private BitTorrent

when you get right down to it... this country was made possibly by forcing black people to build it for us for free

jcp5

join:2002-04-12
Richmond, VA
kudos:1

1 edit
the civil war was over in 1865, black people have been free since to do as they please. no one forced them to lay fiber in the ground let alone build this country from what it was almost 150 years ago. so that really is kinda a moot point in this conversation


Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by Underplay:

They can't stop freedom
So freedom is not paying for stuff you should? Please go to work and tell your boss you will now work for free so their customers can get free shit. Of course I am assuming you actually have a job.
P2P != piracy.
--
My Blog 2.0


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

2 recommendations

reply to Underplay
I will say that people who infer that protecting their personal P2P use is the Internet equivalent of protecting Bolivia from fascism aren't really doing copyright reform any favors.

I'll also say though that people who boil down the entire P2P crowd's arguments as "we like free stuff" haven't got much of a clue of what the debate is really about either.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Gbcue
That is true but has anyone gotten a DMCA warning for legal P2P? I'm sure a few people have gotten them mistakenly, but by far the majority of warning letters have been for illegally distributing copyrighted material.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to Gbcue
said by Gbcue:

said by 88615298:

said by Underplay:

They can't stop freedom
So freedom is not paying for stuff you should? Please go to work and tell your boss you will now work for free so their customers can get free shit. Of course I am assuming you actually have a job.
P2P != piracy.
Did I say that? No. But downloading a torrent of movie is. Yes yes no one ever pirates movies, music and TV shows. All people do on p2p is download ISOs of Linux.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

I will say that people who infer that protecting their personal P2P use is the Internet equivalent of protecting Bolivia from fascism aren't really doing copyright reform any favors.

I'll also say though that people who boil down the entire P2P crowd's arguments as "we like free stuff" haven't got much of a clue of what the debate is really about either.
I was only replying to the person above talking about freedoms. P2P is about alot more, but people who reply about freedoms in a topic of copyright infringement are talking about one specific part of P2P.


Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Did I say that? No. But downloading a torrent of movie is. Yes yes no one ever pirates movies, music and TV shows. All people do on p2p is download ISOs of Linux.
Downloading a .torrent file is not illegal.
--
My Blog 2.0


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
said by Gbcue:

said by 88615298:

Did I say that? No. But downloading a torrent of movie is. Yes yes no one ever pirates movies, music and TV shows. All people do on p2p is download ISOs of Linux.
Downloading a .torrent file is not illegal.
If it's not supposed to be copied around, it is.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Underplay
said by Underplay:

They can't stop freedom
They are determined to try.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by Underplay:

They can't stop freedom
So freedom is not paying for stuff you should?
Nope. It's paying for stuff and then actually having a say in how you use it. It's like trying to bring balance back between corporate and consumer interests, instead of having it tilted all the way over to their end.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to zipjay
said by zipjay:

when you get right down to it... this country was made possibly by forcing black people to build it for us for free
Really. Nice history /fail.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
reply to Karl Bode
infer or imply? (in the lead story, bolded, too)
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Gbcue
said by Gbcue:

said by 88615298:

Did I say that? No. But downloading a torrent of movie is. Yes yes no one ever pirates movies, music and TV shows. All people do on p2p is download ISOs of Linux.
Downloading a .torrent file is not illegal.
Reading a book on how to rob a bank isn't illegal either.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to KrK
said by KrK:

said by 88615298:

said by Underplay:

They can't stop freedom
So freedom is not paying for stuff you should?
Nope. It's paying for stuff and then actually having a say in how you use it. It's like trying to bring balance back between corporate and consumer interests, instead of having it tilted all the way over to their end.
I'd wager that a majority of the people who are talking about freedom, P2P and peerguardian, didn't buy anything they are talking about.


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by Gbcue:

said by 88615298:

Did I say that? No. But downloading a torrent of movie is. Yes yes no one ever pirates movies, music and TV shows. All people do on p2p is download ISOs of Linux.
Downloading a .torrent file is not illegal.
Reading a book on how to rob a bank isn't illegal either.
Yet the RIAA sues to try and close the library.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Underplay
said by Underplay:

Usenet + Encryption / Private BitTorrent

They can't stop freedom
Is it freedom or anarchy when laws are broken and applauded?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


andre2

join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA

1 edit
said by FFH:

Is it freedom or anarchy when laws are broken and applauded?
Depends on whether the laws are just or not.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

2 edits
said by andre2:

said by FFH:

said by Underplay:

Usenet + Encryption / Private BitTorrent

They can't stop freedom
Is it freedom or anarchy when laws are broken and applauded?
Depends on whether the laws are just or not.
You mean if the laws bend in your favor to allow you to do what you want?

Because pretty much every government has had laws regarding theft.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

reply to FFH
said by FFH:

said by Underplay:

Usenet + Encryption / Private BitTorrent

They can't stop freedom
Is it freedom or anarchy when laws are broken and applauded?
Like riding in the front of a bus or eating at the wrong lunch counter if you happen to be the wrong color?

Laws are necessary to maintain structure and order. It is the structure and order that should gain our devotion, not the laws that maintain it.

Otherwise we perceive law as infallible, like we would a deity.
Doing that is a societal illness.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

1 recommendation

said by Noah Vail:

said by FFH:

said by Underplay:

Usenet + Encryption / Private BitTorrent

They can't stop freedom
Is it freedom or anarchy when laws are broken and applauded?
Like riding in the front of a bus or eating at the wrong lunch counter if you happen to be the wrong color?

Laws are necessary to maintain structure and order. It is the structure and order that should gain our devotion, not the laws that maintain it.

Otherwise we perceive law as infallible, like we would a deity.
Doing that is a societal illness.

NV
Except like I said above, pretty much every long standing government has had laws against things like theft, or murder, or anything where you take from somebody who owns something that you don't.

You talk about societal illness, well a real societal illness is one where people perceive laws as easily broken so they can get what they want at the expense of others.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Z80A
That's a different issue. I am actually opposed to them shutting down torrent sites.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to Metatron2008
said by Metatron2008:

Except like I said above, pretty much every long standing government has had laws against things like theft, or murder, or anything where you take from somebody who owns something that you don't.
Is your position that no law can be ethically broken?

said by Metatron2008:

You talk about societal illness, well a real societal illness is one where people perceive laws as easily broken so they can get what they want at the expense of others.
That statement would be worthy of a healthy society if the laws were consistently written with integrity. It is societal illness when laws are enforced and justice executed based primarily upon financial/power structures.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
said by Noah Vail:

said by Metatron2008:

Except like I said above, pretty much every long standing government has had laws against things like theft, or murder, or anything where you take from somebody who owns something that you don't.
Is your position that no law can be ethically broken?

said by Metatron2008:

You talk about societal illness, well a real societal illness is one where people perceive laws as easily broken so they can get what they want at the expense of others.
That statement would be worthy of a healthy society if the laws were consistently written with integrity. It is societal illness when laws are enforced and justice executed based primarily upon financial/power structures.

NV
If the argument is based around laws like child porn, thats different. People married people younger then 18 for years, and consentual sex is not rape.

But something as basic as theft is something that really shouldn't be argued. Of all the laws that have changed, the very basic ones have always lived on.

And there is a reason why those basic laws exist. When people start to think that they can do what they want with other people's stuff and get away with it, it becomes a societal illness.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

said by Metatron2008:

But something as basic as theft is something that really shouldn't be argued. Of all the laws that have changed, the very basic ones have always lived on.

And there is a reason why those basic laws exist. When people start to think that they can do what they want with other people's stuff and get away with it, it becomes a societal illness.
What is your feeling about laws
that are composed by corporate lawyers
and passed by legislators
who receive lobbying dollars
from the corporations who are served by those laws?

Is the ethics of an issue decided for you when the law originates from a corporate law group?

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.