 imtim83Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA | Sure if it was cheaper Has to be less expensive for people to want it. I could live with 100 Mbps but the more the better! |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | All this really is... it's just a marketing thing to say "hey, our network can do 200mbps..." ... no residential person is really going to take this insane price point.. and even if they did, so few would take it that it wouldn't over load their system in the first place.. but even with FTTH, it shouldn't bother them.
Personally, the ISPs need to rethink their offerings.. many of them (Cable with DS3, and FTTH providers especially) need to come up with pricing points of a lower economy tier for light users such as a "web" package like a 3/512 with no a reasonable cap of about 100gb for about $24 a month and then a ultra high speed package for those that really want to use their connections at the max speeds sustainable to the network for about $99 a month, again, with no cap. The higher tier, however, should be port blocked against any kind of server. The higher tier would be good for people wishing to use video services over high speed or for larger file transfers, etc.
Those were just examples, but, they really need to tailor them to the USE of the end-user.. not necessarily tiers with incremental increases in speed and caps.
What they currently have now assumes that people wanting faster speeds are going to use more.. in fact, I feel that most people are going to use the net pretty much the same, just get it done faster. They're still tying a 5meg increase in speed with people downloading more.. with my suggestions, they're being honest upfront about the type of use the end user will be likely to use their service for, and price it out accordingly... if people are going to use more internet video related product to the TV and they'll attrit the video and phone service to another provider.. then give them the speed and price it out accordingly.. pretty simple. |
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 El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy DSL
 ·voip.ms
 ·WIND Mobile
 ·TekSavvy Cable
| said by fiberguy:The higher tier, however, should be port blocked against any kind of server. Absolutely not.
What business is it of the ISP what I do with my connection? You're openning a can of worms... for example what if I wanted to run a mail server?
What If I'm doing "light" server duties for myself or others? If you're able to offer that kind of speed you should have the bandwith to back it up. The includes residential and Home Based Businesses.
We need less nanny-ISPs not more.
--
Now, as the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we try and keep things informal here, as well as infernal. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Absolutely SO!
Where do you come off saying that it's your connection that you'll do with it as you please? ...do you enjoy the same pleasure with a rental home or apartment? no.. you don't.
Many of the ISPs have always blocked ports on residential services as they're not built or designed for that kinda use. Believe it or not, it's THEIR connection and you pay for a limited right to use it.. THAT is a fact. If you want to run a mail server on your connection, well, then that's not considered "typical residential use"... so, buy a business class service that allows for that, like I do, and many others do.
And, just because you have a "home based business" doesn't mean that residential service should apply to you as well... it's been long established that your connection, be it phone or internet, is a business tool then.. and for that, you should pay the business rate. How is your desire to work from home and call yourself a "business" exempt you from having to have the proper business tools?
If you're going to be a residential user.. then be it.. you get the residential provisioned service with residential rates and terms... if you're going to call yourself a "business" and need tools that a business uses AND make money from that connection, they you need to be honest with yourself and do just that.. get business service and operate honestly.
And I'm sorry.. i don't agree with "less nanny ISPs".. these rules have been around for years going back to the telcos.. it's THEIR networks.. in the end, THEY are responsible for them - not you. The issue is that the mindset of the consumer wants to change, which is fine, but you don't always get what you want.
For the record.. my comcast business class HSI is $69 a month.. that's just 20 more a month than residential... if you're wanting to run a "business" then fork over the extra money for it and stop blaming the ISP that you want to run a "home based business" on a residential service.
You're either a business or not.. which is it going to be? It doesn't matter if it's "light" or not.. if you're making income off the service, which you are, then you're a business.. it sounds like you're trying to justify yourself like those so-called "I'm a business, I sell on eBay" crowd do... and so you know, I have little respect for those "ebay" business "owners".. they're anything but. |
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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA | reply to imtim83
novus is a funny company with extremely strict traffic limits.
if you get TELUS ADSL with Telus TV, for about $60/mo for the basic 30 channel package and 6mbps internet, you can download and upload as much as you like with no hidden caps whatsoever. |
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| reply to imtim83
that defamation suit is gonna cost shaw badly because what novus is saying is true
and when you sue someone with frivolous lawsuits there counter suits can HAMMER you to death
GO NOVUS |
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4 edits | reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:Absolutely SO! Where do you come off saying that it's your connection that you'll do with it as you please? ...do you enjoy the same pleasure with a rental home or apartment? no.. you don't. Many of the ISPs have always blocked ports on residential services as they're not built or designed for that kinda use. Believe it or not, it's THEIR connection and you pay for a limited right to use it.. THAT is a fact. If you want to run a mail server on your connection, well, then that's not considered "typical residential use"... so, buy a business class service that allows for that, like I do, and many others do. And, just because you have a "home based business" doesn't mean that residential service should apply to you as well... it's been long established that your connection, be it phone or internet, is a business tool then.. and for that, you should pay the business rate. How is your desire to work from home and call yourself a "business" exempt you from having to have the proper business tools? If you're going to be a residential user.. then be it.. you get the residential provisioned service with residential rates and terms... if you're going to call yourself a "business" and need tools that a business uses AND make money from that connection, they you need to be honest with yourself and do just that.. get business service and operate honestly. And I'm sorry.. i don't agree with "less nanny ISPs".. these rules have been around for years going back to the telcos.. it's THEIR networks.. in the end, THEY are responsible for them - not you. The issue is that the mindset of the consumer wants to change, which is fine, but you don't always get what you want. For the record.. my comcast business class HSI is $69 a month.. that's just 20 more a month than residential... if you're wanting to run a "business" then fork over the extra money for it and stop blaming the ISP that you want to run a "home based business" on a residential service. You're either a business or not.. which is it going to be? It doesn't matter if it's "light" or not.. if you're making income off the service, which you are, then you're a business.. it sounds like you're trying to justify yourself like those so-called "I'm a business, I sell on eBay" crowd do... and so you know, I have little respect for those "ebay" business "owners".. they're anything but. as a landlords son let me clear up the above BULLSHIT
in canada when you rent a rooom or home legally it becomes YOURS.
you can do anyhting you want PERIOD
smash the walls out. ( while you can do that remember the landlord would hen have a right to evict you and then he can sue, he cant sue you before he evicts you however as its YOUR PLACE STILL) THE landlord hasn't the right to throttle or cap the visitors you have, nor are they allowed to DPI ( SPY ) or DPI entrance ( its a criminal offense to break and enter after and a landlord must give a good excuse and written notice 24 hrs ahead of time to enter and that reason has to be one of the ones that can allow it aka he just cant write up 40 notices and hand them out every hour to the tenant )
ALSO tenants have a much more reasonable allowance of being able to fix up if they so choose ( ya know edit modify engineer ..waves to mpaa and thinks about DRM ) and also landlord is repsonsible for much of the more major things UNLIKE microsfot and hollywood who just keep DRMING US to death and harrassment.
also as you mentioned blocked ports no landlord is allowed to intercept YOUR MAIL or PHONE CALLS. NOR do they have a right to block any traffic to or from the residence.
as to email and a webserver as computers and the net are designed for it why should we allow the price gouging corporates to do all this and make such insane monies.
I would like to think my kids could have some IT skills and testing or doing form home would be a great way to learn.
YOU want everyone stupid we know that, not going to happen in the future.
SO when i rent a home or a room i do enjoy it how i want , landlords are also not entitled to turn off heat or electricity for 14hrs of the day and 95% reduction in power use during that time.
THEY DONT make you occupy 5% of the home during times when your off work.....
YOU get the idea now the differance.
ALLOW me to also toss copyright here into it.
IF actors and musicans want 50 year copyright why cant i that made almost every steel door and frame ( from a monopoly company ) not be entitled to a residual every time you open or use one of MY DOORS. ITS NOT YOUR DOOR AFTER ALL YOUR JUST RENTING IT FORM NOW ON, and we need to apply this to every job. THIS way we can unlimit copy/worker right and everyone will do nothing and we all can jsut sit there having everything freely
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edited for nanny less networks.
i wold argue that without me and everyone having CONTRIBUTED to THIS WORK OF ART called a NETWORK it would not exist there fore i DEMAND MY SHARE OF ITS SPOILS
i want a revenue cut, i want unfettered access and control of what i do with my share of said network and i dont believe that paying more then it costs anymore. LOOK AT NOVUS and SHAW.
it makes me sick that shaw would sue for defamation when all that NOVUS is saying is true. ITS PROOF that with TRUE competition we get lower prices and true net neutrality. While i would still argue novus could rise those caps a little they are on track.
200megabit people for a few apartment buildings and shaw is trying to stop progress? OUTRAGE SHOCK AND AWE. I hope the judge in that case flatly denies the shaw action and sanctions them for wasting TAX PAYERS MONEY |
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| reply to El Quintron
Hear, hear ... why restrict if you pay the price? |
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| reply to chronoss2009
i COMPLETELY fail to see how APARTMENT RENTING is relevant to a discussion on RESIDENTIAL INTERNET SERVICE. |
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| Then you also COMPLETELY failed to read the post he replied to! |
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| reply to cornelius785
said by cornelius785:i COMPLETELY fail to see how APARTMENT RENTING is relevant to a discussion on RESIDENTIAL INTERNET SERVICE. you didnt read me or the guy above did you i should start complaining about people that CANT READ after all half the people round here whine for FAR LESS |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:Where do you come off saying that it's your connection that you'll do with it as you please? ...do you enjoy the same pleasure with a rental home or apartment? no.. you don't. A better analogy would be roads. You can't do what you please on the road, and you have to buy a license... but you can drive any speed up to the speed limit, and drive whatever car you want without the builder's permissio, and transport whatever you like without giving up your privacy. You might have to pay tolls, but they can't turn you away... |
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| reply to vp71inet
said by vp71inet:Hear, hear ... why restrict if you pay the price? Sure, if you are paying the price, and in the agreement for you to pay it says there are no restrictions for the price you are paying, then obviously you would not be restricted. |
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El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·voip.ms
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:Believe it or not, it's THEIR connection and you pay for a limited right to use it.. THAT is a fact. If you want to run a mail server on your connection, well, then that's not considered "typical residential use"... so, buy a business class service that allows for that, like I do, and many others do. Um actually you're wrong... it's my connection.
At the very least a connection that belongs to the government that I elected to represent me.
Easements, Right of ways, natural monopolies, and in some cases taxpayer subsidies make it so that most network management is either frivolous due to a maladjusted sense of morality on behalf of the ISP or at worst used as stalling tactic to delay necessary upgrades.
No amount of ISP-apologism or network-management posturing is going to change that.
An ISP that applies frivolous network management either thinks its doing so for the "good of society" or for profit driven reasons none of which are my problem.
--
Now, as the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we try and keep things informal here, as well as infernal. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to chronoss2009
Okay.. I don't know Canadian laws.. but I'm talking about the US.. but I REALLY fail to see how even in Canada that a landlord can't evict a tenant if they're smashing the place up.. but if that's so, remind me never to buy and rent a home in a country with such absurd laws..
Here, in the US, which is what I'm talking about, yes, you live by the general house rules on the lease. They CAN and DO tell you many things such as how long you can have a "guest" staying with you with out notifying the landlord. They CAN tell you have many cars you can have parked in the property. They CAN tell you that you can't damage the interior and if that's found, they CAN evict you... so god bless america for having laws that I find appropriate.
And I'm sorry.. In canada, the home doesn't legally become "yours".. it becomes yours to USE... you don't own it. And down here, yes, they can do a 40 notices to every tenant asking for an inspection.. they are well with in their rights to do so.. they do this often in apartment complexes when they suspect the units are being damaged.
Blocked ports and mail and phone calls.. not a comparison.. sorry.. doesn't work. An ISP DOES have the right to block ports... they sold you a level of service that you AGREED to in advance.. even in Canada.. do you not have service agreements that outline the service you are paying for? Answer - yes. You must agree to it to use it.. you don't agree to it, be ready to find another provider... plain and simple. You're now asking a hypothetical question "why should they be allowed".. why? BECAUSE IT'S THEIR NETWORK! If they don't want a network filled with servers, then that's their rights.. its NOT yours... never has been. I think you need to study up on what the "net" is... the "net" isn't just your connection.. it's a connection of computers of various networks.. and guess what.. they ALL have rules.. if you want rules.. go look at business services in general.. they definitely have "rules".. more than so of the residential kind. What's so hard about following them? and you can quite honest, leave out the whole "gouging corporation" crap.. I hardly see how $20 more a month for a service level that fits your needs is gouging. You sound more like an entitlement person. It's a FACT.. servers are going to send more data over the lines than a typical residential user.. that's why they block them on residential lines.. quite simple really. Sorry if that doesn't fit your Utopian dream that doesn't exist, at this time.. maybe in the future, but not right now.
Now.. for these stupid kids as you speak of.. they don't need a WAN to learn how to use a server.. do you not work in corporate IT? Many servers are built and tested on corporate LANs first..
And some landloards in buildings DO control the heat.. I guess you've never heard of central boilers.. the LLs will set the max temp.. you can either tap into it, or shut it down for cooler temps..
Sorry, but you're full of holes..
I'll leave it at that.. becuase you did miss the point about "being able to do what you want".. you took it way too far.. I was just having fun tearing your example to shreds... to relax. BUt still.. you're way off in your examples.. sorry.. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | reply to jackknife
said by jackknife:Then you also COMPLETELY failed to read the post he replied to! My post was perfectly fine and accurate.. just because you RENT something doesn't give you unabridged free and open access to do as you please with it.. like the guy who replied to me was saying with apartments.. he's simply demonstrating the basic facts that renters DO have... those facts he speaks of are those that are already outlined in the laws and leases. NO, they do not have the right to tear holes in walls.. they can be evicted for that.. don't care if it's canada either... landlords have protections granted to them. NO, they can't just have as many people move in as they want.. there are laws on how many people can live in a unit based on number of rooms.. the guy is full of it.
Just like my example was to draw to renting, you rent a connection to the internet.. it also comes with rules.. an earlier poster had mentioned that it was "my internet and I'll damn well do as I please with it".. which again, is false.. you'll do anything you WANT with it so long as you're not violating the rules.. I guess service agreements mean nothing.. and that's fine.. ignore them.. just don't come here crying foul and how rights were taken away.. those rights that you never had in the first place.
What's sad is that there is this whole generation of people that think things like license applications, service agreements, etc. are just obstacles and inconveniences that mean NOTHING however you have to pretend you accept them to get what you really want.. and that those agreements, etc. really mean nothing. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to axus
Funny.. cuz that was going to be my plan B example when someone tried to shoot down the rental example. |
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 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·DIRECTV
| reply to fiberguy
Re: Sure if it was cheaper Since when is running a GAME SERVER for a few friends a "business" thing?
Actually, I run 5 OpenTTD servers on my residential connection just fine, thank you very much. No business is ever going to run those.
(see www.openttd.org to see what it is)
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" |
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