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SSX4life
Hello World
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join:2004-02-13
kudos:3

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reply to fiberguy

Re: Data is not scarce

said by fiberguy:

They ARE expanding their networks.. they aren't simply lining their pockets.. not sure where you're coming up with that notion. Sounds more like a rant than anything factual to be honest.
I don't want to get into a battle of wits here so lets lay some ground rules shall we?

#1. yes there are more bits flying across networks now than there were 10 or even 5 years ago

#2. Yes there is still room to grow

#3. Yes more individuals have access to wireless internet or data plans than ever before

however.....

#4. Carriers haven't upgraded their networks to keep up with demand like they should have (or continue to have). This has been documented many times before

#5. Remember the early 90's when the ISP's and wireless carriers got a big chunk of money from the fed to upgrade their network(s) but instead decided to turn tail and just pocket the cash? yea..

Ok your turn =) Yes I agree with you on principal, but come on now. Please realize that they have in the past tried to squeeze blood from a turnip (consumers) by making something appear to be scarce.
--
Supporting open source software development since 2000.

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
I don't do debate rules.. I stick to facts. Debate rules are what presidential candidates use and you can see where that gets us, right?

Carries are updating their networks - that's pretty obvious. Are they keeping up with demand? Maybe not, but demand is also outpacing the upgrades. Demand can easily out-pace physical system upgrades AND available technology. Right now, I don't blame them for not wanting to do TOO much as new technology is around the corner. People forget this little fact many times.

If you want a carrier to upgrade capacity at current technology simply to expand capacity when new tech is around the corner, you're going to not see a drop in rates, rather, you're going to see rates hold or go up. This argument is used many times for cable. People don't understand why the DOCSIS 1.1 carriers aren't upping to 2 when 3 was right on the horizon.. it makes no sense.

And, back in the 90's.... that's 10 years ago, but okay.. networks were upgraded.. were they not? I think since then, many phone providers have upgraded their networks... many have expanded DSL access with remote terminals.. att is launching uverse.. verizon is dropping Fiber... cable has dramatically upgraded their networks... so how do you not account for that? Cellular companies most definitely have upgraded their networks as well.. why do you think we have unlimited calling plans now? Those started out at about $100 a month and are now down to $69 a month with seconds lines at $45 Those price drops are a sign of increased capacity. Cellular companies price their rates based on what the system can handle as well as market place prices.

I'm sorry to say this, but the truth is the truth.. they can't simply expand access all over the place and give people all they can use right now becuase people will go nuts and use more than they really need which in itself creates over loaded networks. Anytime a metered plan goes to unlimited, people will gobble it up and not care what they use and how they use it.. so we're not even there yet. If that's a sign of not enough capacity, then I'm sorry.. but it's the truth. We've been here many times.

I still don't see how you've not seen upgrades.. just becuase you don't get the published reports doens't mean they're not being done, becuase they have.

I think you're looking at this from a very narrow perspective of a "consumer" who just doesn't see it the way you want to...

The most simple of facts I can give you is that cellular use has exploded in the last 10 years.. if they have not increased capacity in 10 years, do you think that the industry would be able to keep up with the explosion of use? no... think about it.

And, data.. there is still an issue of ROAMING at large here.. and that's never going to change for a long time.. networks don't have "nationwide coverage" of their own.. they have sharing agreements.. that makes up the illusion of a "nationwide network".. still, they're buying and trading time from one network to another.. unless and until they have true nationwide coverage, which would honestly be a complete waste of money, you're going to run into snags from time to time.

I'm sorry to say this.. but when I read and try to "listen" to your post, it reminds me of my mother and her car when ever it breaks down, or she simply wants to use it, she thinks that "it should just work when ever, and where ever she wants it to"... and that's just a reality of life that isn't.


RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by fiberguy:

And, data.. there is still an issue of ROAMING at large here.. and that's never going to change for a long time.. networks don't have "nationwide coverage" of their own.. they have sharing agreements.. that makes up the illusion of a "nationwide network".. still, they're buying and trading time from one network to another.. unless and until they have true nationwide coverage, which would honestly be a complete waste of money, you're going to run into snags from time to time.
The problem with ROAMING is that you can get charged for it even when it has no cost to either your home or the remote network. As you note the actual cost is usually covered by the peering agreements (or equivalent). The only actual cost is when customers of CellCo 1 do more data roaming on CellCo 2's network than CellCo 2's users do on CellCo 1's network. Otherwise the amounts balance and it is as if all the usage was by the users of the connected-to's network.