| reply to Joe12345678
Re: A proposal said by Joe12345678:said by fifty nine:Since the cable companies seem to think that because the signals are broadcast over the air, they're theirs free for the taking, and are now asking for the Government to beat down broadcasters, I have a proposal: 1. Make the locals only tier (broadcast basic) free or close to it. Regulate it so that the monthly fee, if any, is ONLY what it costs the cable company to deliver the signal to you, and not a penny more. This has to be audited and enforced by the FCC. Make this apply to DBS providers (DirecTV, DISH) as well. For new customers, a one time installation charge not exceeding installation costs will be allowed. You can't make it free as you need to pay something for the line costs (pays for cable techs and costs of running cable) and basic and the price of HSI only vs HSI + basic is just about the same. May force it to be a max of $10-$15 need for lines even phone or HSI only and have come with (full OTA) in clear QAM + 2 free DTA for analog tv's. DBS needs to cover the price of running the sat's. Ah-ha!!!
Well, first of all, TV stations also have costs, which include salaries, transmission costs, utilities, rent, taxes, just to name a few. Ad revenue used to totally cover this but in today's declining ad market that's not longer the case.
But I did say that the FCC should regulate the basic cable fee and make it nothing more than the cable company's costs. I figure about $10 per month just for locals. That should more than cover their costs.
$20+ which we are seeing for broadcast basic cable now is too much and includes a profit margin, which the cable companies don't want to share with broadcasters. They are accusing the broadcasters of greed, so the fair thing to do would be to remove greed entirely from the equation.
Fair is fair, right? |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | said by fifty nine:Well, first of all, TV stations also have costs, which include salaries, transmission costs, utilities, rent, taxes, just to name a few. Ad revenue used to totally cover this but in today's declining ad market that's not longer the case. declining ad market? I see no evidence of that. In fact, I see more spots per hour than ever before. On the average, 1/3 of all TV is something other than the program that the viewer tuned in to watch.
That kind of inventory has resulted in poorer quality commercials. I wish it also resulted in less viewing of TV, but the case is actually the opposite -- Americans are watching more TV than ever before.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to fifty nine
Ah-ha!!!
Well, first of all, TV stations also have costs, which include salaries, transmission costs, utilities, rent, taxes, just to name a few. Ad revenue used to totally cover this but in today's declining ad market that's not longer the case. NO! .. aha! ...  Sorry... but, they survived BEFORE cable customers paid them any money.. they should still be surviving with out it. You're trying to compare two different business models here, and it's FAR more expensive to operate a cable network than it is to operate a TV station.
Broadcasters make their money on ad revenue... maybe the next time you guys put up a fight for DVRs ability to skip commercials, you won't care that you're paying the locals money every time you skip those nasty commercials... you can't have your cake and eat it too..
It sounds like a lot of people here still don't get it.. You can't starve out the locals by trying to not view their ads and also bitch about the increase in your cable bills when broadcasters want more money... Otherwise, enjoy PBS on 7 different channels.
And, $10 a month for just locals? .. currently, we pay $11.50 for tier 1 ... why do you think $10 is justified? With a price like that, you're already basically saying that the cable companies aren't making money on the locals or any of the tier 1 programming.
SOME areas charge upwards to $20 a month for what you are improperly calling "broadcast basic".. it's limited basic or economy basic.. "Broadcast basic" was an actual tier that USED to exist which was just in fact, the locals. Don't confuse the two. But, the average price of limited basic is about $13 a month which I find reasonable. |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | I agree with just about everything you said, but ...
said by fiberguy:It sounds like a lot of people here still don't get it.. You can't starve out the locals by trying to not view their ads and also bitch about the increase in your cable bills when broadcasters want more money... Sure, you can. Advertisers have just got to get over the fact that some people aren't interested in all their messages. The guy who is selling Medicare-paid catheters gets $0 from me whether I watch the commercials and $0 from me if I skip it. I'm sitting on my ass pressing the "Next" button. I'm watching the ad for the Magic Grill, but skipping the ad for depression medicine.
What makes me watch the ads more? Relevance and respect. Don't blast me out of my chair with noise or graphics, don't be totally unrelated to the show or the target audience, don't be long, don't be boring and repetitive, and don't be the 4th, 5th, 6th (or worse) commercial in a string of commercials.
This isn't a viewer problem, it's a problem on the other side of the remote.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords |
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| reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:But I did say that the FCC should regulate the basic cable fee and make it nothing more than the cable company's costs. I figure about $10 per month just for locals. Comcast fee in my area for basic cable is $11.20/mo and is regulated by local franchise agreement. |
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1 edit | reply to funchords
said by funchords:said by fifty nine:Well, first of all, TV stations also have costs, which include salaries, transmission costs, utilities, rent, taxes, just to name a few. Ad revenue used to totally cover this but in today's declining ad market that's not longer the case. declining ad market? I see no evidence of that. In fact, I see more spots per hour than ever before. On the average, 1/3 of all TV is something other than the program that the viewer tuned in to watch. That kind of inventory has resulted in poorer quality commercials. I wish it also resulted in less viewing of TV, but the case is actually the opposite -- Americans are watching more TV than ever before. When your big advertisers buy fewer ads, you still have to fill the space, and you fill the space by lowering the rates.
Lower rates = less money.
Look and see for yourself:
»adage.com/mediaworks/article?art···d=142244 |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by fifty nine:But I did say that the FCC should regulate the basic cable fee and make it nothing more than the cable company's costs. I figure about $10 per month just for locals. Comcast fee in my area for basic cable is $11.20/mo and is regulated by local franchise agreement. My cable provider charges $21.99 for "broadcast basic" which is locals only.
Also, Cablevision has obtained a waiver to encrypt the locals in some areas which means you have to also pay rental for a cable box unless you were grandfathered in when they obtained the FCC waiver. |
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1 edit | reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:Ah-ha!!!
Well, first of all, TV stations also have costs, which include salaries, transmission costs, utilities, rent, taxes, just to name a few. Ad revenue used to totally cover this but in today's declining ad market that's not longer the case. NO! .. aha! ... Sorry... but, they survived BEFORE cable customers paid them any money.. they should still be surviving with out it. You're trying to compare two different business models here, and it's FAR more expensive to operate a cable network than it is to operate a TV station. Broadcasters make their money on ad revenue... maybe the next time you guys put up a fight for DVRs ability to skip commercials, you won't care that you're paying the locals money every time you skip those nasty commercials... you can't have your cake and eat it too.. It sounds like a lot of people here still don't get it.. You can't starve out the locals by trying to not view their ads and also bitch about the increase in your cable bills when broadcasters want more money... Otherwise, enjoy PBS on 7 different channels. And, $10 a month for just locals? .. currently, we pay $11.50 for tier 1 ... why do you think $10 is justified? With a price like that, you're already basically saying that the cable companies aren't making money on the locals or any of the tier 1 programming. SOME areas charge upwards to $20 a month for what you are improperly calling "broadcast basic".. it's limited basic or economy basic.. "Broadcast basic" was an actual tier that USED to exist which was just in fact, the locals. Don't confuse the two. But, the average price of limited basic is about $13 a month which I find reasonable. My provider (Service Electric) has as its lowest tier broadcast basic which is $21.99/month.
That includes all local channels, public access, C-SPAN (one channel only), community board, and educational access channel. Oh and it includes WGN but I suspect that is a historical thing as in John Walson's legacy.
As for ad revenue, it's on the decline. CBS got $200bn less in ad revenue last year than the year before. They're faced with a hard choice - suck up the losses and downsize, or leverage the cable companies for fees.
And I don't think you really would like the reality of broadcast stations if they were deprived of the second source of income. The reality is that they'd be forced to go cable only so they could ask for fees just like their cable counterparts are. With the FCC talking about taking away spectrum for broadband I feel it's headed there anyway. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to funchords
Then don't bitch when you have to pay for the locals on cable or satellite...
What is so hard for you to get? They have to make money somehow...
We could wind up like England and pay a tax for your antenna... you want that instead? .. even then, they still have commercials.  |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to fifty nine
I read the article and this is my reaction:
As someone who invests in stocks, I often see excellent stocks fall lower with a falling market. The entire GDP took a hiccup in 2008-09, so is it really that remarkable that advertising did too?
Here's what I fear, though: to recapture "lost" dollars, they'll cut further into the programming with even more ads -- thus making the entire product of television less compelling. I sure hope I am wrong.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to fifty nine
You're provider, SE, is an exception, not the rule tho. Most of the Tier 1 prices are in the lower $10 rage.. usually under $15 on average. The higher Tier 1 prices are scattered throughout the east coast.. and yes, I've seen some Tier 1 prices at what you say yours is.. I believe the DC area has a few systems that cost that much... still, WAY high, but you can thank your F/A for that one.. they allow those rates.
Further... CBS is a network, not a local broadcaster. The locals sell their own ads to generate revenue. While many are owned by Clear and other large corporations, some are owned by smaller groups. If a network like CBS is hurting for ad revenue, there is a reason for that - it means their programming sucks and isn't gathering an audience and their "book rates" are falling, as well.. so let them go cable. The local broadcasters are still going to be in business.. and if they fail.. oh well. They're still a business that operates over the public airwaves. Again, maybe if people, like you, stop trying to avoid the ads, maybe they wouldn't have to go all cable. You can't have it both ways there buddy...
This second source of income ins pure BS.. this collects user fees from end users to pay for local broadcasting signals...
If they want to go all cable, and I want the network, then fine, if I chose to have it, I'll pay for it then.. but it doesn't change the fact that locals are dipping into the pockets of citizens for television that is supposed to be ad supported and free. SIMPLY becuase it's transmitted over cable or satellite doesn't change that fact..
Further, their monopoly shouldn't be supported. The broadcasters can play satellite against cable to raise their fees... what choice does cable or satellite have? Either pay the fee or lose the signal? Raising their fees only pissed off their subscribers when it happens... if this is the case, it's another form of monopoly that shouldn't be allowed to happen - not even by the standards of most users here. Then government needs to allow cable and satellite to buy distant signals, at a price, and insert their OWN ads on those networks as well. Fair is fair..
If locals want to start playing games and acting like their satellite counterparts, they should be ready to play the game all the way through.. only THEN will the locals knock their crap off. |
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 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | said by fiberguy:You're provider, SE, is an exception, not the rule tho. Most of the Tier 1 prices are in the lower $10 rage.. usually under $15 on average. Comcast's "basic" cable is $19/mo before taxes and fees, plus they'll stick you for converter box fees if you have more than one TV in all-digital markets. |
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| reply to funchords
said by funchords:Here's what I fear, though: to recapture "lost" dollars, they'll cut further into the programming with even more ads -- thus making the entire product of television less compelling. I sure hope I am wrong. Here is an example of what happened to 1 show when the economy went to heck: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_%28TV_series%29
2008-2009 season 50 mins of show; 10 mins of commercials
2009-2010 season 43 mins of show; 17 mins of commercials
Here are some averages on how bad it has gotten:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television···_America
In the 1960s a typical hour-long American show would run for 51 minutes excluding advertisements. Today, a similar program would only be 42 minutes long; a typical 30-minute block of time now includes 22 minutes of programming with 6 minutes of national advertising and 2 minutes of local.
In other words, over the courses of 10 hours, American viewers will see approximately 3 hours of advertisements, twice what they would have seen in the sixties. And the networks wonder why people love DVRs and HATE the advertisers. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to funchords
So you advocate targeted advertising? |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | said by openbox9:So you advocate targeted advertising? Yep, I think it's terrific (as long as you don't wiretap me in order to do it).
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | That's the caveat I was looking for  |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
That's a direct result of losing big advertisers and having to cut your rates and bump up ad time to make up for the shortfall.
So either you pay with more ads or in your cable bill. |
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DrDrew
join:2009-01-28
Apple Valley, CA
kudos:5 | said by fifty nine:T So either you pay with more ads or in your cable bill. Or customers do BOTH, like they're now. |
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| reply to 56403739
said by 56403739:said by fiberguy:You're provider, SE, is an exception, not the rule tho. Most of the Tier 1 prices are in the lower $10 rage.. usually under $15 on average. Comcast's "basic" cable is $19/mo before taxes and fees, plus they'll stick you for converter box fees if you have more than one TV in all-digital markets. Exactly. Comcast and other providers do not have one uniform rate countrywide. It varies with each local franchise. |
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