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AB57
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join:2006-04-04
equatorial

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AB57

Premium Member

Not personally identifiable info, eh?

quote:
If a stranger came up to you on the street, would you give him your name, Social Security number and e-mail address?

Probably not.

Yet people often dole out all kinds of personal information on the Internet that allows such identifying data to be deduced. Services like Facebook, Twitter and Flickr are oceans of personal minutiae — birthday greetings sent and received, school and work gossip, photos of family vacations, and movies watched.

Computer scientists and policy experts say that such seemingly innocuous bits of self-revelation can increasingly be collected and reassembled by computers to help create a picture of a person’s identity, sometimes down to the Social Security number.

. . In a paper published last year, Alessandro Acquisti and Ralph Gross reported that they could accurately predict the full, nine-digit Social Security numbers for 8.5 percent of the people born in the United States between 1989 and 2003 — nearly five million individuals.
»www.nytimes.com/2010/03/ ··· acy.html

Its a Secret
Please speak into the microphone
Premium Member
join:2008-02-23
Da wet coast

Its a Secret

Premium Member

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person." - Walt Kelly

The same could be said for all those that mindlessly engage in social network sites. As said before, many have no clue of the problems the sites can create. And, many don't care until it's too late.

Of course, if you have nothing to hide, then...

AB57
Premium Member
join:2006-04-04
equatorial

AB57

Premium Member

I'm unclear on the point of your post.

Do you believe that the only way someone could find out your birthdate or place of birth is if you post it on a social networking site?

And what about this:
quote:
That helped them figure out the first three digits of each Social Security number, which the government had assigned by location. The remaining six digits had been assigned through methods the government didn’t disclose, although they were related to when the person applied for the number. The researchers used projections about those applications as well as other public data, like the Social Security numbers of dead people, and then ran repeated cycles of statistical correlation and inference to partly re-engineer the government’s number-assignment system.
How is computer re-engineering of the government's number-assignment system related to sending someone a birthday greeting on Facebook?

Its a Secret
Please speak into the microphone
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join:2008-02-23
Da wet coast

Its a Secret

Premium Member

said by AB57:

I'm unclear on the point of your post.
My point was, people tend to disclose far too much on those sites, thinking it is irrelevant. As you have posted, it may be a very serious matter to their life.

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

1 recommendation

Steve to Its a Secret

to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret:

The same could be said for all those that mindlessly engage in social network sites. As said before, many have no clue of the problems the sites can create. And, many don't care until it's too late.
I hope that "mindlessly" was a qualifier and not a descriptor: it's entirely possible to be pretty well engaged with Facebook without getting snookered into giving away more information than one intends.

And I'm looking to expand my chicken coop - can you help?

Its a Secret
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join:2008-02-23
Da wet coast

Its a Secret

Premium Member

Yes, it is possible. However, I don't believe the mainstream has taken those precautions. I don't pretend to know the demographics.
Its a Secret

Its a Secret to AB57

Premium Member

to AB57
said by AB57:
quote:
. . In a paper published last year, Alessandro Acquisti and Ralph Gross reported that they could accurately predict the full, nine-digit Social Security numbers for 8.5 percent of the people born in the United States between 1989 and 2003 — nearly five million individuals.
»www.nytimes.com/2010/03/ ··· acy.html
To expand on my thought, according to the above, they can accurately deduce 8.5% of peoples SSN's from sites.

How many (%) can they identify up to and including, name, address, and phone number etc.? I would think that number is probably staggering to the mind.

EGeezer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-04
Midwest

EGeezer to AB57

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to AB57
For various reasons, my SSN isn't obtainable using those methods.

The use, compiling and cross-analysis of open source information to glean classified information is a long established art and science.

AB57
Premium Member
join:2006-04-04
equatorial

AB57 to Its a Secret

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to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret:

said by AB57:
quote:
. . In a paper published last year, Alessandro Acquisti and Ralph Gross reported that they could accurately predict the full, nine-digit Social Security numbers for 8.5 percent of the people born in the United States between 1989 and 2003 — nearly five million individuals.
»www.nytimes.com/2010/03/ ··· acy.html
To expand on my thought, according to the above, they can accurately deduce 8.5% of peoples SSN's from sites.

How many (%) can they identify up to and including, name, address, and phone number etc.? I would think that number is probably staggering to the mind.
Within the milieux of targeting, information gathering, identity theft, et. al., I believe the rule of thumb is along the line of once you've got a SSN, you've got the keys to the kingdom.

Its a Secret
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join:2008-02-23
Da wet coast

Its a Secret

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said by AB57:

Within the milieux of targeting, information gathering, identity theft, et. al., I believe the rule of thumb is along the line of once you've got a SSN, you've got the keys to the kingdom.
Quite true. However, I think once you have the prelim data, you have a good basis to go forward to get the last details on someone. After all, you have a good basis of reference to draw from.

Of course, it depends on what you want to achieve.

AB57
Premium Member
join:2006-04-04
equatorial

AB57 to EGeezer

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to EGeezer
said by EGeezer:

For various reasons, my SSN isn't obtainable using those methods.
That leaves you and a select few others out of the mix.

So, only a couple of hundred million others to pick from.
(Just in the USA, that is.)
The use, compiling and cross-analysis of open source information to glean classified information is a long established art and science.
Indeed it is. Using methods that are constantly being refined, enhanced, and innovated.

Its a Secret
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Da wet coast

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Its a Secret to AB57

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to AB57
A guy I met today were talking about this subject, albeit in slightly different terms. He was telling me when he used to work for a collection agency, Facebook, My Space et al, was his best resource on people, and how to find them.

That seems to be rather telling in my mind.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

Law enforcement loves it to. You would be surprised what some criminals post.

Martinus
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join:2001-08-06
EU

Martinus to AB57

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to AB57
I don't think these social networking site are to blame but rather the people that use them.

There are a lot of stupid people out there and what in real life could be considered as a mere embarrassing slip of the tongue, posting carelessly in FB or Tweeter can have more serious consequences.

From the wife of MI6 chief posting personal details and pictures to the Israeli soldier posting secret attack plans which made the IDF cancel the operation - well, at least this one had a good consequence but I'm sure it was not the purpose of the idiot.

AB57
Premium Member
join:2006-04-04
equatorial

1 recommendation

AB57

Premium Member

said by Martinus:

I don't think these social networking site are to blame but rather the people that use them.
My point in posting this story was not related to posts on social networking sites, per se.

Obviousy, people who are going to publicly post a lot of hard or intimate details about themselves shouldn't need to be scratching their heads when later confronted with something that might be considered undesired results of those actions.

The caution in the tale, to my mind, is never to think that what some company tells you is not 'personally identifiable information' is in fact not able to be used to personally identify you-- because it can be.

Many bits and pieces of information, however innocuous they might seem on the surface, can be "re-engineered", extrapolated out, run through some special demographical/pinpointing/identificational software program, correlated with other data-- whatever-- and then be used to get a pretty darned good idea of who you generally might be, and possibly even exactly who you might be-- as the story says, right down to the Social Security number.

The science of doing this seems to be getting honed to a sharper edge every year.
That might be a valuable tool for say, identifying a potential terrorist, but how many of us think that will be its main purpose, and how many of us believe that tracking, targeting, and information gathering to suit other purposes will be its main focus?

It also shows how our privacy, in any and all forms, becomes more of a chimera with each passing day.

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
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join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

La Luna to Its a Secret

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to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret:

A guy I met today were talking about this subject, albeit in slightly different terms. He was telling me when he used to work for a collection agency, Facebook, My Space et al, was his best resource on people, and how to find them.

That seems to be rather telling in my mind.
That's because people are stupid and make too much information available and friend total strangers. They will do the same stupid things no matter where they are.

Its a Secret
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Its a Secret to peterboro

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to peterboro
»www.cbc.ca/canada/toront ··· ?ref=rss

Hospital theft suspect claims 'good heart'

One of the men charged with robbing a woman of her jewelry as she lay dying in a Toronto hospital, says he has a "good heart."

Isaac Lewkowitz was arrested Wednesday night and charged with theft, conspiracy and drug possession. He is also charged with failure to comply with the terms of his probation.

On his Facebook page, which contains numerous spelling and grammatical errors, he says that "until two months ago the bad of me was much more then the good. today im happy to say that all the bad of me was left behind, and a new person is here to stay for good."

Police say Lewkowitz, 29, entered Toronto's East General Hospital on Tuesday evening along with 26-year-old Marcos Marinoni.

The pair then allegedly made their way to the palliative care unit and stole approximately $7,000 worth of jewelry from the bedside of an elderly woman who was lying unconscious in her hospital bed. The woman died a short time later.

More at link.

How right you are!

Blue2
Premium Member
join:2004-04-14
France

1 recommendation

Blue2 to La Luna

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to La Luna
said by La Luna:

That's because people are stupid and make too much information available and friend total strangers. They will do the same stupid things no matter where they are.
Pehaps. So you live in Warwick NY, eh? And you use Vonage and Optimim Online? Why would you "stupidly" reveal that?

Answer: Because it seems pretty innocuous by itself. But once someone gets a hold of the Optimum and Vonage databases and cross references them to your IP range and knows you live in Warwick, they can hone in on you. That's the issue.

Calling people "stupid" is just "stupid". It makes it sound like you are smarter than them, and while some of them are no doubt dumb, some of them just don't see the risks in what they reveal any more than you do.

How many ever gave your SS to a doctor or a hospital? Well, at the time, it was NOT a big risk. Now with advanced computing power and databases, it is.

rcdailey
Dragoonfly
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join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA

rcdailey

Premium Member

Well, gee, if you carry a Medicare card, anyone who sees it also has your SSN (with exceptions for survivors receiving SS benefits). Of course, no one is supposed to see that card except a provider and providers are supposed to protect that data. Lots of "supposed to" going on these days, right?

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada

ReformCRTC to AB57

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to AB57
EH?

"You said eh!..."

DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium Member
join:2001-07-23
Bristol, CT

DrStrange

Premium Member

His posted location already says Alberta, eh?


paradigmfl
join:2005-07-16

3 edits

paradigmfl to AB57

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to AB57
A big issue which will soon come about is the privacy issues associated with public photo sharing. Soon it will likely be both easy and common for a person to input a photo and search automatically for other photos where that person appears.

One issue will be that it won't only be the things you share which will trace back to you but also the photos of others in which you appear. For example you might go in for a job interview and HR might decide to run a search based on your photo. Up will pop results of you drunk and passed out five years ago at a party. Photos you didn't even know about taken by someone you haven't even met. HR then decides not to hire you thinking you may be a drunkard.

Already there are tools out which are starting to come close to making this a reality though they aren't perfected or common enough to make this yet a realistic scenario. Give it a few years, maybe a decade.

I don't think it would be a stretch to think that there may be companies out there which do nothing but mine the internet, especially facebook and myspace type places for photos. Then they might collect them in a database along with associated content and references. Some day it will be a great intelligence gathering tool I would imagine. Makes you reconsider what you share doesn't it?

Luka1
join:2001-10-30
Index, WA

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Luka1 to Steve

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to Steve
said by Steve See Profileit's entirely possible to be pretty well engaged with Facebook without getting snookered into giving away more information than one intends.
You personally may not get snookered.

But what of everyone who knows you ?

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

Steve

said by Luka1:

You personally may not get snookered.
But what of everyone who knows you ?
Are you referring to some danger to me, or to those who know me?

Luka1
join:2001-10-30
Index, WA

Luka1

Member


To you.

Someone sends you a birthday card.

Someone who actually knows you, is talking to someone else, and gives personal info about you.

Etc.

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

Steve

said by Luka1:

To you.

Someone sends you a birthday card.

Someone who actually knows you, is talking to someone else, and gives personal info about you.
I am a minor public figure, which is to say that my name, address, phone number, birthday, and other details are available a mere two clicks away from this very post, so in that sense I don't have the same information to "hide" that many others to.

I have no control over what other people do with any information (on Facebook, at DSLR, or any other place), but I don't post information here or elsewhere that I'm not willing to be made public.

Yes, somebody I know could betray a confidence by setting up some kind of trash-steve website and spill my secrets, but I'm not sure how one can avoid that save for not having any friends.

Steve
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to Its a Secret

Member

to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret:

said by AB57:

I'm unclear on the point of your post.
My point was, people tend to disclose far too much on those sites, thinking it is irrelevant. As you have posted, it may be a very serious matter to their life.
Whatever. The main point here should be the government leaks so much info through public records that the little data given on facebook can be re-engineered.
Your birthday should not have to be kept secret. The only reason it may have to be kept secret is the government leaks so much other info that with some simple data and a powerful computer maybe your SSN can be guessed.
Plus OMG from your friends on facebook they can tell if you may be gay. Well in person you can take a guess at that too so unless you are living in a closet.
Plus according to some other recent threads I am already unknowingly sharing my SSN with many others so one more shouldn't matter.
nonymous

nonymous (banned) to Its a Secret

Member

to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret:

said by AB57:
quote:
. . In a paper published last year, Alessandro Acquisti and Ralph Gross reported that they could accurately predict the full, nine-digit Social Security numbers for 8.5 percent of the people born in the United States between 1989 and 2003 — nearly five million individuals.
»www.nytimes.com/2010/03/ ··· acy.html
To expand on my thought, according to the above, they can accurately deduce 8.5% of peoples SSN's from sites.

How many (%) can they identify up to and including, name, address, and phone number etc.? I would think that number is probably staggering to the mind.
This is the fault of the government having so many PUBLIC records. Not your Facebook account.
Just knowing a name and a city in which someone lives there are places to buy any info you want.

Luka1
join:2001-10-30
Index, WA

Luka1 to Steve

Member

to Steve
said by Steve:

Yes, somebody I know could betray a confidence by setting up some kind of trash-steve website and spill my secrets, but I'm not sure how one can avoid that save for not having any friends.

Steve
This point wasn't meant to be a personal thing, to you only.

My point is exactly as you state.

With something like facebook, out there, the only way you could avoid ever having personal info about yourself, posted somewhere... Would be to have no friends, no family, no workmates, no neighbors, etc...

EGeezer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-04
Midwest

EGeezer to nonymous

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to nonymous
said by nonymous:

Just knowing a name and a city in which someone lives there are places to buy any info you want.
Yes, most data available for sale are held by private sector companies.