dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
12010
share rss forum feed

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux

I finally got a PS3 a couple months ago. I installed Linux. It works. It's neat. I'm not hugely into it or anything, but I like to tinker. Even though I haven't messed with it much, it was fun to set up and see it work.

Who cares if some people don't ever use the feature, having such a capability is rather impressive. Add a keyboard and mouse, and you have a computer attached to your television. Not as nice as a custom HTPC, flash is iffy at best, whatever. Point is that removal is a rather extreme move.

Sony says that this is about "security." Theirs perhaps. One random internet person announces that it might be sort of possible to sort of hack the console and then "Other OS" option is just no longer even possible?

Excuse me? NOT every person who may wish to be able to run Linux is an automatic "pirate" or even a potential one. I personally have no intention, even if it were possible, to mod the thing.

Some "update" if it disables my ability to tinker with a perfectly good feature. Oh, and if I want to reclaim the space, I'd have to
-Backup game data,
-Format the drive to remove the Linux partition
-Pray that game data etc. is able to be restored after format/update.

...They also claim that you should back up anything from the Linux side - otherwise it's just "not accessible" after the update. Nice way to take care of things (not really).

Not only does the update seem to suck, it seems to suck no matter what if you have another OS.

Of course, they aren't forcing people to do this. Supercomputer setups don't care about blu-ray updates or PSN etc.

It still sucks for anyone else who wants both sides to work as expected.
You can either continue to tinker, or give that up completely if you want new movies to play, new game patches, etc...

Over 2000 posts on the Sony blog so far. Most are not impressed, even if they hadn't used the "Other OS" option
»blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/···-update/


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2

2 edits
the big thing why is some guy hacked the unhackable via other OS
+ hardware hack to enable 3d-GPU in linux

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to amungus
What can you expect? It's Sony! King of the DRM, the ones who made the sony cd-rookit which malware could use to further exploit a system, the ones who wanted to make blu-ray the oxymoronic ever-changing drm standard, and the moment the integrity of the console is broken it would allow for modification of the ps3 console operating system. You could say they are preventing people from cheating in games/online play, or protecting their DRM.
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
Security through obscurity is for the ignorant who don't deserve security.

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
Yeah, I know. Should've just bought a cheap stand alone blu-ray player instead of a console that supposedly would do "everything"

There is one aspect of this which makes no sense to me, and that is blu-ray playback.

If blu-ray discs can supposedly update players with the latest keys (or whatever DRM), then why should leaving the PS3 OS at a lower level even matter?

Why shouldn't DRM on disc be able to update the player component instead of requiring the whole system to be updated?

Are they now also intentionally breaking their own DRM design?

What if I had no internet access, and no way of updating the PS3 firmware?

I thought the whole idea of blu-ray's DRM scheme was to allow for newer discs to update the player's encryption such that playback would still work, even with no internet access on the blu-ray player..........

Are they going to mandate that a new firmware for PS3 be included on blu-ray movies? Doubt that would go over well.

Personally, I don't care about the PSN. Don't game online with it. Patches for games are nice I guess, but are the absolutely needed???

This whole thing reeks of massive class action lawsuit.


Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20
reply to amungus
They sound as bad as Nintendo, constantly pushing out updates to break the hacks...
--
The farther one travels, the less one knows.


rv65
Premium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1
reply to amungus
If there is a patch available, you must download it or else you can't play the game.


beldin
Script Monkey number 50
Premium
join:2006-06-06
Union, SC
reply to amungus
I've got a slim 120GB which doesn't have the "Other OS" option anyway, so it doesn't bother me. As long as the thing plays my BD and games with no issue, I'm happy.

I've got a Wii also and I can't really understand why people want to hack the things. I never hacked my Atari 2600. It did what it was designed to do, play games. I never hacked my Mattel Intellivision, I never hacked either of the Atari 800 computers that I owned, I never hacked the NES or Super NES, and I never hacked my Playstation or Playstation II.

I'm not trying to play pirated games. I buy the games that I play so I have no need to hack anything.
--
If we were not meant to fly, why were we given Adrenaline and Endorphins.
DSL Extreme 6.0 (Home)
Wildblue Pro Pack (Work)

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
Yeah, I'm not wanting to mod the PS3, even if it were possible.
Just got the thing a couple months ago.

If I want to keep Linux, blu-ray should not be affected.

Basically, it sounds like I have to back up game data etc. from the main partition, format, update, hope that the restoration works, and then have free space back (the 10GB taken up by Linux). Otherwise, update, and 10GB is "inaccessible."

Blu-ray playback is what really upsets me here. Requiring the update for this is messed up.

The "hack" that Sony is so worried about isn't even close to allowing anything to actually happen. This preemptive revocation of a feature that people expected to continue being supported is wrong.

Linux on PS3 does NOT = automatic potential future hacker/pirate


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to beldin
The more modern systems people frequently mod to turn them into full-blown media centers. See XBMC or similar. This type of modding really only started with the Xbox since it was one of the first "main stream" consoles to have a hard drive, which allowed the space to do such things. Prior to that, there were mod chips of course, but those were mainly for region breaking/running pirated games.

In regards to the wii, people commonly hack it to allow for dvd playback.

ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
said by Xioden:

The more modern systems people frequently mod to turn them into full-blown media centers. See XBMC or similar. This type of modding really only started with the Xbox since it was one of the first "main stream" consoles to have a hard drive, which allowed the space to do such things. Prior to that, there were mod chips of course, but those were mainly for region breaking/running pirated games.

In regards to the wii, people commonly hack it to allow for dvd playback.
There's no need to hack the PS3 to be a full blown media center. It will stream pretty much anything from a computer on the network. I use it all the time to play music in the living room and have watched a movie that was streaming from the PC in a different room. It does Netflix, plays games, BD movies and DVDs. What the hell else should it do? I'm not real excited that they are removing the Linux option from the box but if I really need to run Linux, I'll do it from a pc and not a game machine.
--
Does Microsoft mean small and squishy?

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to amungus
Ever since the nintendo, and genesis there has been cheating devices. The companies tried to prevent cheating in some of their games even though they were single player, but in the end as the consoles progressed the methods got more and more sophisticated. The difference here was these were single player games.

I've seen online cheaters ever since early online pc games, and even console games, however the ones hosting the online services did take steps to ban these people who felt they had to cheat.

Everyone remember the psx, and the psone? How they removed the external port, however somebody just made a bootloader cd to work on the psone anyway?

With how these consoles can require updates to play the games online is a much of a anti-online cheating feature, as it is to make sure people are not trying to play copied disks. If people are not getting the updates I'm sure there's ways to play copied disks, and cheat in single player, however this is to help prevent these people from taking these cheats online against others who except others are not cheating.

I still don't like the ever-changing drm for blu-ray, which means you can't just buy a blu-ray player for your parents, and expect it to work without updates down the road, however that is what the movie studios forced on us. There is a reason dvd is still the most popular movie media, you need an internet connection to make sure your blu-ray player can play the most recent movies, if it can play them at all as the manufacturer hasn't updated their firmware yet.
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
Security through obscurity is for the ignorant who don't deserve security.


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
reply to ender7074
I'm not talking about the PS3, as per the post I replied to, I was talking about older systems.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to amungus
I'm a little dissappointed but the fact is I haven't logged into my PS3 linux since Ubuntu 7.10 so early 08?

So it's a wash, I may hack it back on once that becomes available but mostly out of technical curiosity.
--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
reply to amungus
who cares this will push people even hard to mod/hack the ps3 (CFW)

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
Heh, yeah, it seems to have spurred the original 'hacker' to announce that he's going to work on it (custom firmware) so that people can still use the "other os" option.

Unlikely that I'll go for it (IF it ever works or gets released) - Sony will probably do like MS and start banning people's consoles or screwing something else up if they detect any mods

I'll probably end up wiping out my Linux install. Was looking forward to further tinkering, but since I'd rather just have the console do "everything" else that it does, the "ultimatum" firmware will likely have to get installed.


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to amungus
Oh well. The PS3 has exceeded all my expectations anyways. It plays great games in HD and 5.1 sound. It does BluRay. It does internet, and it streams media from my main PC. I honestly don't care if it doesn't do Linux.


CBLMorphis

join:2001-02-25
Riverside, CA
Good for Sony, keep all them damn hackers and cheaters off PSN, They deserve what they get. Time to wise up and get use to the real PS3 OS. I am loling at the people that have a brick PS3 because of linux.

Give it too me I'll use it. Poor poor hackers. I feel so bad for you. To bad you suck at, cough, hacking.
--
Like My DSL!!!


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to amungus
Screw Sony. I want my $400 back!! One selling point of the ps3 for me was the capability to run it as a small linux-based media server that sits beside the TV when I'm not playing games and such. Now they are going to take this feature I paid for away? I will never buy another Sony product again and everyone else who thinks this is disgusting should follow suit. The feature was advertised when I paid $400 for the console, along with other users. AT&T pulled the same type of thing with my Matrix, telling me I had to upgrade phones to get my TV back. They are going too at end of contract. I will suffer with VZW's lackluster signal by getting a mobile antenna/amp setup. What the hell is wrong with corporations these days? It is one thing to remove something from market or stop supporting it. It is entirely another to yank it from a device that has already been paid for. Really, I mean it, Sony. I'll give you my console and you give me $400. I paid for a device that can run Linux, not one that you can take features away from at will.
--
deltree /y C:\*.*


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
This illustrates a somewhat disturbing issue with much of today's equipment that has an Internet connection built-in. Any time they want, the manufacturer can force an update on you that removes features. And before anyone says that you don't have to install the 3.21 update: If you don't install it, you'll lose what are, in my view, far more important features of the console. So it's really a choice: What features do you want to lose?

I never used the "Other OS" feature nor had any plan to, but I feel sorry for people who do use it and are now up shit creek. It's not like they had to run an illegal patch or do some runaround to enable another OS; it's right there in the PS3 system menus. If they'd had to hack the system (like an iPhone jailbreak for example), they should understand that the exploit they used might be closed at any time. But this was a legitimately exposed and documented feature. I would never have expected it to suddenly disappear and cause issues for me if I had chosen to use it when it was available.

Granted, a very small portion of people used the "Other OS" feature, but I don't like the thought that maybe one day some feature I'm using will be magically removed and I'll just have to put up with it.

Playstation 3: It only does did everything.
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to amungus
The hacker has better ethics than Sony. Down with sony!

A nice read

»geohotps3.blogspot.com/
--
deltree /y C:\*.*

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
reply to CBLMorphis
..Um, nobody's hacked it yet CBLMorphis. Perhaps you should study the situation a bit more to fully understand what is and isn't actually happening with this?

First, you can choose not to update.
-no PSN access.
-future blu-ray titles may or may not play
-game patches probably won't come through
-Linux option still works - researchers, gov't, and those who enjoy the freedom to tinker can continue to do so, but the console is not bricked by any means

You can choose to update
-no more Linux
-current updates, blu-ray updates, and PSN access continues to work

Reason for the update? Sony is scared that there MIGHT be a POSSIBLE way to gain further access to the "guts" of the system, which could possibly lead to future hacks.

The implications are thus:
why not remove web browsing - that's certainly a more realistic threat to "security"

why not remove media server access? that's a security risk - talking to other computers on a network...

why not remove mp3 playback? only hackers use that audio format

...point is, this isn't about security for paying customers. It is fear. One guy figures out one very tiny crack in the armor, so to speak. Neither he, or anyone else on the planet was close to coming up with any further hacks (that we know about anyway) that would accomplish anything useful - the only thing "hacked" so far was a possible way to MAYBE get further into the system. Even then, it wouldn't mean anything would come of it.

Sony saw one guy figure out a tiny bit of their hypervisor - their response seems premature.


silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01
reply to Technogeez
said by Technogeez:

They sound as bad as Nintendo, constantly pushing out updates to break the hacks...
No worry, it's easy to hack this one. Sony needs to understand that they can't stop most people.

ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
reply to Xioden
said by Xioden:

I'm not talking about the PS3, as per the post I replied to, I was talking about older systems.
Oops missed that... Had next gen systems jammed into my brain when I was posting.
--
Does Microsoft mean small and squishy?


Bink63
Namedrop THIS
Premium
join:2002-10-06
Everywhere
reply to amungus
quote:
On March 1st, 2010, Sony affirmed it's continued commitment to support the feature on non-slim PS3 units via mailing list posts. Less than one month later, Sony reversed its position by announcing that the "Other OS" capability of the original model PS3s would be removed with PS3 Firmware 3.21 on April 1 2010.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_···#History

Oh, BTW haters, I bought my refurbed 60GB CHECHA in February of THIS year solely for 2 reasons...

#1 PS2 compatibility for all my son's PS2 games

*AND*

#2 "Other OS" capability for *ME*.

Removal of *either* of these abilities is Sony straight up ripping me off considering that the marketing for the CHECHA specifically mentioned the "Other OS" capability for that model.

Sony needs to get rid of this POS "update" and restore the marketed functionality or I will no longer purchase *ANY* Sony products and in fact, actively discourage ANYONE from purchasing any Sony hardware or software!

And there's also the reasonable possibility that they could be looking at a series of or class action lawsuit(s) for false advertising.

From my heart...

Fuck off and DIE Sony!



/vent
--
Hopefully the Ministry Of Truth and Thought Police can sort this whole thing out.
»twitter.com/bink63
»otadigital.tv/forum/index
Frank Shoemaker would call this noise
GO Cubs GO!!!


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
Yup, the way to hurt Sony for ripping us off is to deprive them sales, not only from us, but people who seek recommendations from us. I have many choices I can recommend for most hardware/software needs. I paid $400 for my unit when the price first dropped and it was a marketed feature on my ps3. It seems like bait and switch to me, only it's worse because the switch is done after purchase, giving the consumer no choice or the ability to make an educated decision(feature X may be stripped a year from now, there is no way to tell).
--
deltree /y C:\*.*


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Bink63
You make a good point; I am very satisfied with (and reliant upon) the software backcompat in my 80GB CECHE -- but what if they disable that in a future update? It's a fairly silly example, because I can't see any reason why they would touch backcompat, but man...it gets you thinking, ya know?
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent

McRat

join:2009-09-09
Corona, CA
reply to amungus
I'm no longer much a video game guy, but I do own an early PS3 that I mainly use for a BlueRay player and for the kids to play games. I hate to admit it, but we buy thousands of dollars worth of consoles, accessories, and games every year. We have the Wii, X360, PS3, PSP's, and hundreds of game titles. Just the PS3 Guitar Hero / Rockband games and accessories is perhaps $1500. No exaggeration.

I doubt anyone from Sony Entertainment will read this, but I agree 100% with those who feel ripped off by Sony.

Does this move by Sony mean that the mfr's can remove features of their products at any time they wish?

I'm starting to get less and less enthusiastic about Blueray. Sony's threat that I might not be able to view new movies or play new games if I didn't tolerate their "downgrade" (opposite of update) which took nearly an hour to perform, tells me that I cannot rely on Sony to act in the customer's best interest. Telling me you can remove or restrict my use of features that I paid for is going to make me very skeptical about Sony purchases in the future.

Bad move Sony. In an industry that is changing constantly, the only thing constant is the need for customers. Pissing them off for no reason is probably not well thought out.

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
Haven't looked into this in awhile, but apparently there was some interesting news.

Somebody figured out how to proxy to the PSN, allowing access with older firmware - »www.engadget.com/2010/04/09/bypa···wn-risk/

The "hacker" who likely caused Sony to act immaturely, prematurely, supposedly has a working firmware mod that restores the "other OS" »www.engadget.com/2010/04/07/geoh···engadget
..if that's true, that is a pretty fast turn time on his promise to patch the firmware.

I still haven't bothered updating. Haven't tinkered w/Linux on it in awhile either. Will probably wait to see how this cat/mouse game pans out.

Sony's reason for acting so prematurely, in a paranoid and almost immature fashion just strikes me as unnecessary.

I'd rather see Sony put things right than try some patched firmware. Then again, the whole thing stinks. Probably going to leave my firmware alone for as long as possible. Push comes to shove, I supposed I'd wipe everything and go with the upgrade, and then try the patched fw


MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Katy, TX
reply to amungus
Wow how lame. The PS3 kept taking things away with newer versions (No ps2 games on play station anymore really pissed me off because my collection is basically a paper weight) I was saving up money to buy a PS3 because you can run linux and I want a blu-ray player, but I might just buy a blu-ray player. Whats next will they stop letting you put in hard drives? Sony is really piling on the suck recently I hope they get bought out by Microsoft that would me laugh.
--
Team Discovery-Join the fight


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
That's a reason to support emulation projects. Some of the ps2 projects are running decent and look good, but require a massive CPU. As they evolve, this should improve somewhat, and hardware keeps getting faster. Great games should be immortal. I fully believe that. Speaking of which, one thing I loved about my ps3 was running an NES, Genesis, and an SNES emulator via Linux straight from the console to the TV, making it a Linux pc, an SNES, an NES, a Genesis, a Sega Master System,a ps3, a ps2, a bluray player, and a ps1, all in 1 shelf space. I agree with an earlier comment: ps3 it just does did everything.
--
The new Sony rootkit-Using the ability to remove features you paid for. What's next? Boycott Sony products »[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux