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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
reply to CBLMorphis

Re: [Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux

..Um, nobody's hacked it yet CBLMorphis. Perhaps you should study the situation a bit more to fully understand what is and isn't actually happening with this?

First, you can choose not to update.
-no PSN access.
-future blu-ray titles may or may not play
-game patches probably won't come through
-Linux option still works - researchers, gov't, and those who enjoy the freedom to tinker can continue to do so, but the console is not bricked by any means

You can choose to update
-no more Linux
-current updates, blu-ray updates, and PSN access continues to work

Reason for the update? Sony is scared that there MIGHT be a POSSIBLE way to gain further access to the "guts" of the system, which could possibly lead to future hacks.

The implications are thus:
why not remove web browsing - that's certainly a more realistic threat to "security"

why not remove media server access? that's a security risk - talking to other computers on a network...

why not remove mp3 playback? only hackers use that audio format

...point is, this isn't about security for paying customers. It is fear. One guy figures out one very tiny crack in the armor, so to speak. Neither he, or anyone else on the planet was close to coming up with any further hacks (that we know about anyway) that would accomplish anything useful - the only thing "hacked" so far was a possible way to MAYBE get further into the system. Even then, it wouldn't mean anything would come of it.

Sony saw one guy figure out a tiny bit of their hypervisor - their response seems premature.



silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01
reply to Technogeez

said by Technogeez:

They sound as bad as Nintendo, constantly pushing out updates to break the hacks...
No worry, it's easy to hack this one. Sony needs to understand that they can't stop most people.

ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
reply to Xioden

said by Xioden:

I'm not talking about the PS3, as per the post I replied to, I was talking about older systems.
Oops missed that... Had next gen systems jammed into my brain when I was posting.
--
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Bink63
Namedrop THIS
Premium
join:2002-10-06
Everywhere
reply to amungus

quote:
On March 1st, 2010, Sony affirmed it's continued commitment to support the feature on non-slim PS3 units via mailing list posts. Less than one month later, Sony reversed its position by announcing that the "Other OS" capability of the original model PS3s would be removed with PS3 Firmware 3.21 on April 1 2010.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_···#History

Oh, BTW haters, I bought my refurbed 60GB CHECHA in February of THIS year solely for 2 reasons...

#1 PS2 compatibility for all my son's PS2 games

*AND*

#2 "Other OS" capability for *ME*.

Removal of *either* of these abilities is Sony straight up ripping me off considering that the marketing for the CHECHA specifically mentioned the "Other OS" capability for that model.

Sony needs to get rid of this POS "update" and restore the marketed functionality or I will no longer purchase *ANY* Sony products and in fact, actively discourage ANYONE from purchasing any Sony hardware or software!

And there's also the reasonable possibility that they could be looking at a series of or class action lawsuit(s) for false advertising.

From my heart...

Fuck off and DIE Sony!



/vent
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»twitter.com/bink63
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Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

Yup, the way to hurt Sony for ripping us off is to deprive them sales, not only from us, but people who seek recommendations from us. I have many choices I can recommend for most hardware/software needs. I paid $400 for my unit when the price first dropped and it was a marketed feature on my ps3. It seems like bait and switch to me, only it's worse because the switch is done after purchase, giving the consumer no choice or the ability to make an educated decision(feature X may be stripped a year from now, there is no way to tell).
--
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Bink63

You make a good point; I am very satisfied with (and reliant upon) the software backcompat in my 80GB CECHE -- but what if they disable that in a future update? It's a fairly silly example, because I can't see any reason why they would touch backcompat, but man...it gets you thinking, ya know?
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent


McRat

join:2009-09-09
Corona, CA
reply to amungus

I'm no longer much a video game guy, but I do own an early PS3 that I mainly use for a BlueRay player and for the kids to play games. I hate to admit it, but we buy thousands of dollars worth of consoles, accessories, and games every year. We have the Wii, X360, PS3, PSP's, and hundreds of game titles. Just the PS3 Guitar Hero / Rockband games and accessories is perhaps $1500. No exaggeration.

I doubt anyone from Sony Entertainment will read this, but I agree 100% with those who feel ripped off by Sony.

Does this move by Sony mean that the mfr's can remove features of their products at any time they wish?

I'm starting to get less and less enthusiastic about Blueray. Sony's threat that I might not be able to view new movies or play new games if I didn't tolerate their "downgrade" (opposite of update) which took nearly an hour to perform, tells me that I cannot rely on Sony to act in the customer's best interest. Telling me you can remove or restrict my use of features that I paid for is going to make me very skeptical about Sony purchases in the future.

Bad move Sony. In an industry that is changing constantly, the only thing constant is the need for customers. Pissing them off for no reason is probably not well thought out.


amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

Haven't looked into this in awhile, but apparently there was some interesting news.

Somebody figured out how to proxy to the PSN, allowing access with older firmware - »www.engadget.com/2010/04/09/bypa···wn-risk/

The "hacker" who likely caused Sony to act immaturely, prematurely, supposedly has a working firmware mod that restores the "other OS" »www.engadget.com/2010/04/07/geoh···engadget
..if that's true, that is a pretty fast turn time on his promise to patch the firmware.

I still haven't bothered updating. Haven't tinkered w/Linux on it in awhile either. Will probably wait to see how this cat/mouse game pans out.

Sony's reason for acting so prematurely, in a paranoid and almost immature fashion just strikes me as unnecessary.

I'd rather see Sony put things right than try some patched firmware. Then again, the whole thing stinks. Probably going to leave my firmware alone for as long as possible. Push comes to shove, I supposed I'd wipe everything and go with the upgrade, and then try the patched fw



MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Katy, TX
reply to amungus

Wow how lame. The PS3 kept taking things away with newer versions (No ps2 games on play station anymore really pissed me off because my collection is basically a paper weight) I was saving up money to buy a PS3 because you can run linux and I want a blu-ray player, but I might just buy a blu-ray player. Whats next will they stop letting you put in hard drives? Sony is really piling on the suck recently I hope they get bought out by Microsoft that would me laugh.
--
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Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

That's a reason to support emulation projects. Some of the ps2 projects are running decent and look good, but require a massive CPU. As they evolve, this should improve somewhat, and hardware keeps getting faster. Great games should be immortal. I fully believe that. Speaking of which, one thing I loved about my ps3 was running an NES, Genesis, and an SNES emulator via Linux straight from the console to the TV, making it a Linux pc, an SNES, an NES, a Genesis, a Sega Master System,a ps3, a ps2, a bluray player, and a ps1, all in 1 shelf space. I agree with an earlier comment: ps3 it just does did everything.
--
The new Sony rootkit-Using the ability to remove features you paid for. What's next? Boycott Sony products »[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux


amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
reply to amungus

Class action lawsuit time...
»arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010···suit.ars

"The suit seeks unspecified damages from Sony, but does claim that such damages will exceed $5 million."

Or, they could just release another firmware that brings this back...

I still haven't updated mine. Don't plan to unless I run into a movie that won't play. Don't use the PSN, so that's not a concern for me. Messing with movie playback, however, is just totally wrong.



MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Katy, TX

Good consumers won't get money but at least it will hit their pocket book.
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beldin
Script Monkey number 50
Premium
join:2006-06-06
Union, SC
Reviews:
·Charter

said by MysticGogeta:

Good consumers won't get money but at least it will hit their pocket book.
Huh? Good consumers? It will hit whose pocketbook? The consumers?
--
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loli
Premium
join:2002-08-26
South Richmond Hill, NY

said by beldin:

said by MysticGogeta:

Good consumers won't get money but at least it will hit their pocket book.
Huh? Good consumers? It will hit whose pocketbook? The consumers?
Pocketbook = Sony. It is worded a bit weird but it's correct.

Bubba Rock

join:2010-04-21
reply to MysticGogeta

said by MysticGogeta:

Wow how lame. The PS3 kept taking things away with newer versions (No ps2 games on play station anymore really pissed me off because my collection is basically a paper weight) I was saving up money to buy a PS3 because you can run linux and I want a blu-ray player, but I might just buy a blu-ray player. Whats next will they stop letting you put in hard drives? Sony is really piling on the suck recently I hope they get bought out by Microsoft that would me laugh.
I don't have a PS3, but I do have some classic PS1 games and the original PS1. I think that bit about the backwards compatibility lacking is pretty crappy (but not all that surprising I guess).

I'd thought it was pretty cool how it was supposed to be backwards compatible with 1 and 2 games (and not just software emulation either).

Oh well, prefer the full original experience anyway! (and why I continue to keep the classic systems)


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Bink63

said by Bink63:

quote:
On March 1st, 2010, Sony affirmed it's continued commitment to support the feature on non-slim PS3 units via mailing list posts. Less than one month later, Sony reversed its position by announcing that the "Other OS" capability of the original model PS3s would be removed with PS3 Firmware 3.21 on April 1 2010.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_···#History

Oh, BTW haters, I bought my refurbed 60GB CHECHA in February of THIS year solely for 2 reasons...

#1 PS2 compatibility for all my son's PS2 games

*AND*

#2 "Other OS" capability for *ME*.

Removal of *either* of these abilities is Sony straight up ripping me off considering that the marketing for the CHECHA specifically mentioned the "Other OS" capability for that model.

Sony needs to get rid of this POS "update" and restore the marketed functionality or I will no longer purchase *ANY* Sony products and in fact, actively discourage ANYONE from purchasing any Sony hardware or software!

And there's also the reasonable possibility that they could be looking at a series of or class action lawsuit(s) for false advertising.

From my heart...

Fuck off and DIE Sony!



/vent
looks like they are getting sued because of it
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Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

I'd like to get involved in the suit, even if it only gets me a few dollars. After all, one reason I chose the ps3 was its Other OS feature, which enabled it to be a compact media server for the house, when watching things instead of gaming.
--
The new Sony rootkit-Using the ability to remove features you paid for. What's next? Boycott Sony products »[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux



darkwing5736

join:2010-05-05
united state
reply to amungus

Not to stray off topic, but my ps3 recently died I had to go and get the new Slim edition..... I never did the linux thing, but am now pissed I lost my PS2 gaming ability.... I sure hope they bring that feature back..... now all my ps2 games are just sitting there all dusty and unused
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
reply to amungus

Well, I'm hoping that I could get my hands on a copy of geohot's 3.21 firmware now. Or whatever version it is now.

This officially makes Sony the first console to actually lose functionality over time, rather than gain or improve it.
--
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Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

said by C0deZer0:

Well, I'm hoping that I could get my hands on a copy of geohot's 3.21 firmware now. Or whatever version it is now.

This officially makes Sony the first console to actually lose functionality over time, rather than gain or improve it.
Not really. The Dreamcast lost MLCD capability, which is required to play burned copies of its games(originals are on proprietary GD-ROM format). The new version of the NES lost video-out capability. I am sure there are other examples. The difference here is they are actually yanking the feature from consoles already bought, which is a first. But yes, new versions of other consoles have lost features. Now that I think about it, the CD-i comes to mind, as well.
--
The new Sony rootkit-Using the ability to remove features you paid for. What's next? Boycott Sony products »[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux


james1

join:2001-02-26
reply to McRat

said by McRat:

"downgrade" (opposite of update)
Thanks for the clarification, I always thought downgrade was the opposite of upgrade.
--
said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer


james1

join:2001-02-26
reply to Selenia

said by Selenia:

The new version of the NES lost video-out capability.
A console with no video-out capability you say? What the heck are you talking about?
--
said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer


Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

2 edits

1 recommendation

»upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c···ES_2.jpg

That ugly thing right there. The original NES had AV jacks for direct composite video output. This thing here only has an RF output.

Edit: Put in bigger picture.
--
The new Sony rootkit-Using the ability to remove features you paid for. What's next? Boycott Sony products »[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux



james1

join:2001-02-26

I checked it out, I see what you mean.


amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
reply to amungus

Another quick update...

Looks like ARS Tecnica has an update regarding class action lawsuit(s) against Sony. Lots of commentary going on over there.

I still think it's silly to blame "Geohot" entirely for this. The mod was never fully completed, only theoretically possible, and even then, only with repeated attempts at poking the hardware from what I understand.

Anyway, like the article/comments say, the most any regular user would ever see is MAYBE a few bucks, a gift card, some junk game, or otherwise useless little token prize while lawyers make out like bandits. Unlikely they're going to re-enable support for Linux, which is flat out silly.

I still haven't upgraded the firmware either, mostly because I don't care too much about their online content (I stream Netflix on an Xbox - would be nice if the PS3 did it w/out a disc, I'd definitely use it instead of the noisy 360 ).

Played "The Book of Eli" on blu-ray the other day, didn't haggle me to update firmware. Someday though, I'm sure I'll run across some movie that'll "force" me to. I think at that point, or possibly before, I may just sell the darn thing.

Without further ado - »arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010···oval.ars
"Ars Technica has now learned that the court will bundle all seven suits into a single class-action case."



Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:4

I believe Netflix is coming fall this year as a firmware.
--
I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock.



joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:6
reply to amungus

Amazon.com was refunding people in Europe about 100 USD.
--
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
reply to amungus

Well, thankfully I am relieved that the newest game I did get - Dante's Inferno - for the ps3 has not required a firmware update from me. Strangely though, it was able to download and install the game update for it even without me being logged into the PSN on my 60GB model.

I'm personally holding out for as long as I can regarding updating. I have no interest in buying a slim whatsoever, and I think it's BS that they removed it pre-emptively, even when someone else was quickly then able to make the console run code using the same scripting language that makes their new dynamic themes work.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever



Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to joako

Sony needs to refund us some money for the lost functionality. I hope there are eventually class actions on this one to teach them a lesson. The company has some nerve giving users a "choice" on which functionality they want to keep. I still have this topic in my sig because I don't want this topic to die. I think it has died out too quickly in other places and this situation needs attention(calling all greedy lawyers).
--
The new Sony rootkit-Using the ability to remove features you paid for. What's next? Boycott Sony products »[Rant] ps3 update = no more Linux



C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
reply to amungus

Another key point of frustration now. Even though so far my disc-based games don't require me to update on the ps3, the download games have. I can no longer play Stardust HD on my console because its update requires me to update.

Granted, stardust was one I got thanks to my brother, but it's still the principle of the thing, and it's still damn irritating. I'm now afraid to try the other games I do have installed only to be forced into updating them, and then being unable to play anymore.

So far Twisted Metal 2, for being a PSOne title, seems to be exempt.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever