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Mr_Derp
join:2004-11-10
Plainfield, ON

1 recommendation

Mr_Derp

Member

Northerner sues bell for billed 911 fees for nonexistant 911

»www.cbc.ca/canada/north/ ··· uit.html

So there's no 911 service in NWT, and Bell bills our northern friends .75/month for 911 service that simply doesn't exist, when you dial 911 in those parts you get: "There are no 911 services in this area. Please hang up and dial the emergency number for your area, or hang up and dial 0 to reach an operator."

Wow Bell, charging everyone for damned Touch-tone access when you do not ever have the option to go pulse (where's that last old strowger switch that needs to die so we can be done with this?) and billing customers for 911 service that live in a region that doesn't have it... The least Bell could do is forward the customer to their appropriate local emergency service (7 digit #) since they (Bell) say they charge the 911 fee to pay for the 'routing of calls' to 911.

I wish I could say that their greed surprises me, but coming from Bell I only expect the worst sociopathic, consumer-abusing, scumbag con-artist behaviour.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

The $15MM+ per month that Bell rakes in for the touch-tone fee alone could replace all the old Strowger switches in 2 months tops (labour & planning included).

And surprise, surprise, surprise....the new switch can still support pulse dialing too.

When the f!ck will the CRTC stop this Bell ripoff??!!!!???
CR1239
join:2006-11-04
Vancouver, BC

CR1239 to Mr_Derp

Member

to Mr_Derp
They don't charge it for land line customers - only Mobility. And the cell phones can dial 911 in other locales, that have established 911 services.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

Doesn't justify a BS charge if the service isn't available. I hope the courts rule in his favor.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned) to Mr_Derp

Member

to Mr_Derp
any info on contacting him
might have a lil story about how bce admits they should nto have cut service to me and that cut also killed 911 that almost cost me my life

sue em
@cgocable.net

sue em to Mr_Derp

Anon

to Mr_Derp
If only more consumers would take Bell to small claims court like I did then some of their other BS might stop.

help help
@mc.videotron.ca

help help to Mr_Derp

Anon

to Mr_Derp
I do believe this is the class action lawsuit stemming from this:
»[ Mobile] Bell Mobility. No service = a billable fee

Good read that adds some info into what happened.

Guy had an emergency situation, calls 911, but, oh, there is no 911 service. Guess he had to pack-up his emergency and move it over to a town that has 911 service. Right?
help help

help help to CR1239

Anon

to CR1239
said by CR1239:

They don't charge it for land line customers - only Mobility. And the cell phones can dial 911 in other locales, that have established 911 services.
That doesn't help too much if in an emergency in the town you live in has no 911 service, does it.

Oinktastic
Let them use fibre
join:2005-08-24
Scarborough

1 edit

Oinktastic to CR1239

Member

to CR1239
said by CR1239:

They don't charge it for land line customers - only Mobility.
You mean in NWT? I have to pay a 9-1-1 fee for my landline in Toronto, because there's SOOO much routing that has to be done around here to get to an emergency centre.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
The 9-11 fee is collected to pay for the operation of the local 911 system which may or may not be operated by Bell.

If there is no 911 in NWT at all, then there would have been no government asking Bell to collect the 911 fee and Bell has kept that money to itself all these years.

If Northwestel doesn't charge the 911 fee for an address, then Bell Mobility should not charge 911 fee for that same billing address.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by jfmezei:

If Northwestel doesn't charge the 911 fee for an address, then Bell Mobility should not charge 911 fee for that same billing address.
If there is going to be selective billing of the 911 service fee, it should be based on the rate centre of the subscriber's mobile number, not their billing address. Someone with a Toronto number could have their bill mailed to NWT.

kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium Member
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC

kewlkeed to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
What's wrong with Step By Step or Crossbar eh!!!??! (Strowger)

LMAO if there WAS still one of those puppies in real live operation somewhere out/up there, you can bet your ass I (Along with a few people who I can guess) would be on a flight this week to get up to see it, let alone throw bids to remove it and preserve it.


sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

I'd be very surprised if Bell had a strowger exchange in operation since the 60s as they implemented DDD (Direct Distance Dialing) and changed to Crossbar switches. Now I doubt there are any crossbar switches still in operation!

kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium Member
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC

kewlkeed to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
Hehehe, aaaaactually, I know of a Bell SxS switch that was in operation in 2003. OK sorry no it did not belong to Bell but was now bought out by them (Or possibly Telebec).

But I actually was served from a SxS as late as 1995 if I remember right. (Knowlton QC, 243 NXX)
bridge
join:2008-08-11
Montreal, QC

1 edit

bridge to CR1239

Member

to CR1239
They do charge for 911 with an home phone line, just took a look at my invoice and i got .40 for municipal taxe for 911 + .19 for 911 call service.(sorry for my english)
grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC

grunze510

Member

said by bridge:

They do charge for 911 with an home phone line, just took a look at my invoice and i got .40 for municipal taxe for 911 + .19 for 911 call service.(sorry for my english)
The lawsuit is for the NorthWest Territories where they don't have 911 service.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to kewlkeed

Premium Member

to kewlkeed
According to »www.telcodata.us/telcoda ··· ocn=8051 Bell is predominantly using Nortel DMS100 switches and Nortel Remote Switching Centers (which if my understanding is correct are remote switches of a parent DMS100).

But there are a number of rate centres whose entries I don't understand (I'm not a telco guy).

eg.
613-399 ON Bell Canada 8051 Wellington WGTNON41RS0 00/00/0000
Prefix Type: ICO
Switch Name: N/A
Switch Type: RS
LATA: Manitoba (888)
Tandem: N/A
Detailed Switch Info

Are these the areas where you crank the phone to get Ernestine's attention so she can place the call for you and listen in on the line while you talk?

kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium Member
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC

1 edit

kewlkeed to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
Basically that amounts to a "Who knows" entry. telcodata has a bad habit of that where most of the switch types are unknown or not listed or not CORRECTLY listed.

I find it's a decent resource for some basic info, but is horribly flawed most of the time.

As an Edit, my previous CO (243 and now also 242 out of the 450 NPA, previously 514) is a DMS-10 with no switching matrix. So basically it's a dumb pipe that just sends all switching info to the town of Granby (777 and many other NXX) where they have a DMS-100 that handles the actual switching, only to have the call routed right back to the DMS-10 if it's a local. Which is kinda stupid because it has happened before where some fool has hit a pole and taken out the entire town's switching capabilities. AFAIK the DMS-10 that serves me is not even capable of switching calls on it's on local prefix and relies 100% on that DMS-100.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

Perhaps this is a billing/long distance issue where the remote switch doesn't generate sufficient revenue to warrant buying the extra hardware and software to put in that remote switch to decide which call is local and which call is long distance and record long distance billing information. (and nowadays, with different long distance companies assigned to individual phone lines, it gets even more complex).

kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium Member
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC

kewlkeed to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
That's basically the jist of it. If they did the checks now it probably would warrant some form of switching matrix (Although I doubt DMS-10 would have been their choice now).

But at the time it was a pretty low traffic CO. Hell if it took to 1995 to swap it from SxS I think you can count that as a rather un-important switch hehehe. Last time I was in the CO I remember them saying it served about 4500 lines, that was 2 years ago so now I would assume higher. Plus it also handles 3 remote DMS-1U units from the DMS-10.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member


Time to petition the CRTC to do way with the touch tone fee.
Bell makes ~$15MM per month off of it in ON/QC.

Giving the 250,000 remaining ON/QC rotary phone customers a $60 touch tone phone for free costs $15MM.

Since the ~$15MM per month to Bell represents a direct subsidy to Bell - which they are probably using to fund their NGN and fighting to keep independents from using, I propose the following:

a) CRTC to sunset the touch tone fee in 12 months.

b) Each ILEC to keep 3 months worth of the remaining touch tone fee, with the provisio that they deliver 2 wired touch tone phones to each remaining rotary/pulse customer. Bell will no doubt buy them from China for about $4 each.

c) the remaining 9 months of touch tone fees ( 9 x $15MM = $135MM in the case of Bell's ON/QC territory) is to be paid to independent ISP's in the ILEC's territory - as a means to jump-start the creation of CO-DSL/FTTN/FTTP or other technology on a shared net neutral common carrier basis.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

If Bell Canada wants to be competitive, it knows it can start by removing its silly fees like the touch tone one. Do you know that if you have no long distance package at all, the first one of the month is tagged for a $1.95 fee (on top of the 1950s per minute fees).

The POTS exodus towards VoIP and cable systems is continuing.

One has to wait to see what bell will do with the Québec City FTTH telephone service. Will Bell just copy/paste the POTS 1950s rate structure, or will they come out with a totally new service that is billed competitively with modern fare structure and no funky extra fees ?
freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10

freejazz_RdJ

Member

JF, I get the distinct impression Bell is just changing the medium, not the services. It would be nice if they had some great multi-service bundles... VoIP + Internet + TV like Fios or Uverse. But probably not. FTTP doesn't seem to be a whole new product line strategy with them, just a substitute for FTTN where it makes sense for them to do so. I doubt many FTTN areas will move to FTTH anytime soon.

Another missed opportunity for them and for customers.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

for FTTH, they cant't have POTS service to the homes. They'll need some sort of VoIP service. If they price it as POTS, then they are stupid. Their mentor, AT&T has already stated they would love to go away from POTS to get rid of the legacy POTS pricing between carriers.
freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10

freejazz_RdJ

Member

Well, not entirely true. Verizon offers voice over FTTH in two ways: 1 basically connects you to your local TDM switch and is their POTS equivalent with identical pricing. Some alcatel lucent ONT's have a proprietary DS-0 over GPON function. They also have a VoIP digital voice service, using an integrated ATA. It is priced more attractively like you would expect a VoIP service to be.

I don't think Bell offers their old voip service anymore... digital voice I think it was called. Therefore I expect them to price it like pots, regardless of whether the ONT connects in back to TDM or IP switches on their end. They really don't seem to think that customers are that put off by their POTS prices I guess, despite Videotron/Rogers and Vonage.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

1 edit

HeadSpinning to kewlkeed

Member

to kewlkeed
said by kewlkeed:

As an Edit, my previous CO (243 and now also 242 out of the 450 NPA, previously 514) is a DMS-10 with no switching matrix. So basically it's a dumb pipe that just sends all switching info to the town of Granby (777 and many other NXX) where they have a DMS-100 that handles the actual switching, only to have the call routed right back to the DMS-10 if it's a local. Which is kinda stupid because it has happened before where some fool has hit a pole and taken out the entire town's switching capabilities. AFAIK the DMS-10 that serves me is not even capable of switching calls on it's on local prefix and relies 100% on that DMS-100.
DMS-10 is a small switch. It has full local switching capabilities, and can have remotes subtended off it. It was a popular switch for small communities.

I think you're thinking of the DMS-1, which is a dumb subscriber line carrier.

Some DMS remotes have survivability, meaning if they lose connectivity to their host, they can switch calls locally.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di ··· x_System
vintagewino
join:2003-07-22
Grimsby, ON

1 edit

vintagewino to jfmezei

Member

to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

If Bell Canada wants to be competitive, it knows it can start by removing its silly fees like the touch tone one. Do you know that if you have no long distance package at all, the first one of the month is tagged for a $1.95 fee (on top of the 1950s per minute fees).

The POTS exodus towards VoIP and cable systems is continuing.

One has to wait to see what bell will do with the Québec City FTTH telephone service. Will Bell just copy/paste the POTS 1950s rate structure, or will they come out with a totally new service that is billed competitively with modern fare structure and no funky extra fees ?


I know of one person (in the Toronto area)who has a rotary dial phone AND is NOT charged the Touchtone fee. Bell tried charging him, he called, refused to pay it, and it was removed!! Maybe he spoke to a likable fellow countryman, I don't know. Oddly, on that same line, he is using Blue's internet service.

$1.95 fee, yes I found that out last month. Had to accept a collect call from a loved one in the hospital. $2.84 collect call - $0.10 savings(wow!) + $1.95 LD network connection fee + $0.53 taxes = $5.30 total. Ridiculous for a 1 minute phone call!! Needless to say, I took in a cell phone for that person the next day. Using cell phone dropped it to $0.51/min air+LD+taxes.

edit: As far as being competitive, why should they even have to think about it? When you're a monopoly sucking up to the politicians, they will get their way at the expense of John Q. Public every time. Too many favours at the 19th hole.

kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium Member
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC

kewlkeed to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
HeadSpinning, nope it's a real DMS-10, just with half of the equipment as normal. It's a real bizzare setup, and one that even the people who work in the CO say isn't normal by a long shot. What's more odd is from what I can tell the last time I talked to them, the DMS-1U units fed from the DMS-10 HAVE survivability mode and can switch themselves locally, but the hosting DMS-10 can't switch internally. (I'm not sure if this makes sense, or is possible. The switch guys said they assumed the 1Us had survivability mode but that they couldn't/wouldn't confirm it because of how the DMS-10 was set up)

It's a very strange one.

xbell
@cgocable.net

xbell to vintagewino

Anon

to vintagewino
said by vintagewino:

I know of one person (in the Toronto area)who has a rotary dial phone AND is NOT charged the Touchtone fee.
Bell tried that years ago and was shut down by the outcry and the CRTC had to go along.
I was up at the cottage last weekend and did a job for one of the neighbours in an old farmhouse.
Dial phones from the 50s and 60s and a 4 party line.
Technically party lines are not deregulated for me to work on but all I did was replace a section of quad to the 2nd floor that had gone bad.

kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium Member
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC

kewlkeed to Mr_Derp

Premium Member

to Mr_Derp
No WAY! I was on a party line back in 1995, but I didn't think they still existed!

Theoretically COULD I call Bell and order one? LMAO I can only imagine what that would be like trying to convey to India :P