1 edit | [Future9] Rate surprises (and not good ones) Has anyone else noticed lately that the rates quoted in the F9 rate page are not accurate?
I call Brazil cell phones, and the grey and white rates to the numbers I call are both quoted as $0.039. Yet the calls are billed at 0.099 USD and listed as "standard." The only one that is accurate is premium at $0.112
I emailed F9 Monday and received this response.
"The $0.039 route is down for a few days. Please be advised not to use it if that's a problem. It will be back up probably later this week."
Not exactly helpful. "Pleased be advised not to use it if that's a problem?" Of course paying almost triple the quoted rate is a problem.
And the cheap routes are not back (this is later this week), they are still being billed at higher rates. Yet the rates page continues to inform customers that rate is 3.9 cents.
Surely the rates page should be changed. The only way to check whether the more-than-quoted rates are applied without wasting money is to make a call and hang up before it is answered, then check your call records. |
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PX EliezerPremium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:12 Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
·callwithus
·Callcentric
·Vitelity VOIP
·Optimum Voice
·Gizmo5
| Agree fully.
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A somewhat related example: The Wendy's fast food company here says they can't easily get tomatoes, so they will include tomatoes only on request.
Fair enough.
But then they should lower the price of the hamburger if they are actually NOT providing something they provided before. |
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| Wendy's is doing the same in Canada. I noticed that when I was there a month ago (I am in Brazil now). There they say they can't get "quality" tomatoes. Apparently other fast food outlets are not having the same problem. |
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 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Those are some fairly significant rate differences. |
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Mangowww.toao.net
join:2008-12-25
Alberta
kudos:8 | reply to Toollio
Indeed; I wonder how many other routes this affects? |
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| reply to Toollio
I wonder, does the F9-affiliated comparevoipproviderrates.com site reflect this? |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | reply to Toollio
Future Nine attempts to provide you with the cheapest rates we can. These are grey routes that are unstable and can go down at any point in time. If that happens you will be re-routed through a normal route at market price. Brazil mobile market price is around 13cents/minute and up. Some example:
Callcentric - $0.1375/min
Voip.ms - $0.133/min
Vonage - $0.17/min
At $0.099/min billed it's still cheaper than any provider I could find to Brazil mobile. $0.039 is a 3rd of the market price and it is no wonder it goes out once in a while. We could save ourselves the headache, remove this route, and have you pay the higher rate always - but we'd rather not do that.
I realize the rate page displaying the wrong rate is a problem- but there is no good solution that I can think of - other than to notify you not to use the route. |
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| reply to Toollio
The attitude of Future9 is "if you don't like us, don't use us". I wonder how this business model will work out... |
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OmagicQPosting in a thread near you
join:2003-10-23
Bakersfield, CA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·voip.ms
·callwithus
·Callcentric
| said by alpovs:The attitude of Future9 is "if you don't like us, don't use us". I wonder how this business model will work out... Voting with your wallet is the surest way to communicate with a company how you feel about their product. I think he has plenty of satisfied customers who will continue to use F9's services for the long term. Others... well as some might say, "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya"
*These comments are entirely my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Future Nine or any of its employees. |
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toro
join:2006-01-27
Scarborough, ON Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
·voip.ms
| reply to Toollio
I am not a F9 customer, but I guess if the same situation happened to me, I would expect at least an automated message playing at the time when I dial the number, informing me that the call could not be put through the cheapest route and it will be billed at a higher rate. |
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approval from:
Mango 
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:Future Nine attempts to provide you with the cheapest rates we can. These are grey routes that are unstable and can go down at any point in time. If that happens you will be re-routed through a normal route at market price. Brazil mobile market price is around 13cents/minute and up. Some example: Callcentric - $0.1375/min Voip.ms - $0.133/min Vonage - $0.17/min At $0.099/min billed it's still cheaper than any provider I could find to Brazil mobile. $0.039 is a 3rd of the market price and it is no wonder it goes out once in a while. We could save ourselves the headache, remove this route, and have you pay the higher rate always - but we'd rather not do that. I realize the rate page displaying the wrong rate is a problem- but there is no good solution that I can think of - other than to notify you not to use the route. to me it would certainly seem more reasonable for the call to fail, perhaps with a message that the call would be successful through another route. at the very least there should be an option that would cause any call that would not be billed at the expected rate to fail. |
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1 edit | reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:I realize the rate page displaying the wrong rate is a problem- but there is no good solution that I can think of - other than to notify you not to use the route. Then why not fix the rate page? I am not complaining about the rates, I am complaining about the fact that the rates you are posting are unavailable and are wrong. if I check the grey and white rates, then make the call, I pay almost triple what you tell me I will pay. It has been that way for almost a week, that I know of. It could be longer. It is not a matter of hours.
BTW, mywebcalls offers 9.4 cents to Brazil cellulars and the routing seems to work well. I used your 9.9 cent route today and got a message in portuguese saying "this type of call cannot be made through this service" (I speak portuguese) and was charged 9.9 cents for the uncompleted call. |
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PX EliezerPremium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:12 Reviews:
·voip.ms
·callwithus
·Callcentric
·Vitelity VOIP
·Optimum Voice
·Gizmo5
| reply to Toollio
I think that the issue is not the actual rate, but rather the notification to the customer.
No one likes an unpleasant surprise. Pleasant ones are OK.
If Kelly Clarkson suddenly shows up at your house, that's a pleasant surprise.
If Geraldo Rivera shows up at your house, that's an unpleasant surprise.
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And---IF someone knows in advance that a call will cost more than previously, then they can adjust their call length accordingly.
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We all agree that F9 is a good company, Nitzan is a good fellow, F9 has very good rates, and so forth.
But that's NOT the issue.
And I would say that regardless of which company it was. |
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| said by PX Eliezer:If Kelly Clarkson suddenly shows up at your house, that's a pleasant surprise. Not so sure about that, especially if she decides to sing at my front door. |
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| reply to OmagicQ
The attitude of Future9 is "if you don't like us, don't use us"... well as some might say, "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya" I guess this is why Future9 doesn't give out their business address. Though I guess it also protects them from potential lawsuits, not that I'm aware of any or causes for one. |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | reply to Toollio
said by Toollio:Then why not fix the rate page? I am not complaining about the rates, I am complaining about the fact that the rates you are posting are unavailable and are wrong. if I check the grey and white rates, then make the call, I pay almost triple what you tell me I will pay. The only way to "fix" the rates page is to completely remove the cheaper route. If we do that we will not add it back because it's a PITA and we don't want to keep doing this every time a route goes down. At least until we can figure out a technical solution to this - the best I can do is ask you to use another provider to call the problem destination.
No offense, and I'm sorry about this - but we are too busy right now with other issues which are higher priority (the carrier change). Once that storm passes, we'll seriously look at better technical solutions for this issue. |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·voip.ms
| reply to Toollio
Wouldn't it be more responsible to post on the website the highest possible price it could be, then if the cheaper route is available when the call is made, charge the customer the lower rate?
(Unless, of course, one is solely focused on advertising the lowest rate in the market, reality be damned.) |
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1 edit | reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:The only way to "fix" the rates page is to completely remove the cheaper route. If we do that we will not add it back because it's a PITA and we don't want to keep doing this every time a route goes down. No offense, but quoting one rate and charging another is most likely illegal. Price misrepresentation almost always is.
No offense, but how difficult can it be to have a database in which you enter a new number?
No offense, but I am too busy to make a test call every time I want to figure out what your real rates are. |
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Mangowww.toao.net
join:2008-12-25
Alberta
kudos:8 Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Anveo
 ·Shaw
·FreePhoneLine
·TELUS
·Callcentric
·callwithus
·LINGO
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:No offense, and I'm sorry about this - but we are too busy right now with other issues which are higher priority Oh, wow. If I ever said something like that to a customer I'm sure I'd get fired.
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 N9MDPremium
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL
kudos:5
·VOIPo
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·PHONE POWER
| Oh, c'mon ... give Nitzan a break.
No one is right or wrong here ... but Nitzan is knee deep in making major changes to his product at this moment. Don't overread any intent to insult or demean in his responses. It's kind of tough for a small business to drop everything just to "fix" a problem that probably affects two or three of its customers.
I'll bet he is racking his brain for a solution ... but there may be no "quick fix" available. Not to be antagonistic, but if it really bothers anyone, go to another provider. The vast majority of F9 customers won't care a whit about occasional higher price calls to Brazil. |
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