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actor90
Never a dull moment
Premium
join:2003-07-21
Jackson, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Comcast
reply to cypherstream

Re: Official Comcast blog about new SA guide

said by cypherstream:

That is so nice. Why would any cable company want to get rid of that?

What version are you running?
Honestly, because Comcast has a moronic need to own every aspect of our viewing experience. It might not be a bad thing, except for the fact Comcast has a track record of picking the wrong companies and people to absorb. More often then not, Comcast in their programing and internet content choose the worst people to make the decisions. Back when Comcast bought TechTV only to merge it with the horrible G4, and then systematically kill off programing and personalities from the more popular TechTV, in the same way Comcast absorbs a company and pushes a guide no one wants, that is clunky and ugly compared to alternatives, even some from the company they partly own.
--
My Blog on blogspot.com


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3

Heres some comments on the new guide from The Middletown Press (CT)
»www.middletownpress.com/articles···5101.txt

" This upgrade is horrible, Its a step backwards, which I didn't think was possible. It no longer flows smoothly from channel to channel but it jumps around to block of 4-5 channels at a time and not they added advertisements which u have to scroll through. I want the old system back because this new one is straight garbage. "



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to Camaro305

wow thats some nice passport GUI :O i want it now


The Q

join:2008-06-26
Collegeville, PA
reply to cypherstream

Hard to believe all the love for the SARA guide.

Passport, yeah, I get that, but SARA?

There are quite a few comments (18 at my check today) on the site that cypher referenced. I assume that these are all from Comcast customers in CT.....

Looks to be mixed responses/reactions

Here is another one...

" I was disappointed with the guide when I first pulled it up -- but I didn't realize the menu key brought up all of the old functions that the guide key used to give until I saw this:

»www.comcast.net/meetyourguide/

I haven't used it much but directions do help (you would think Comcast would have sent them in advance, or at least put info in one of those advertisement boxes we now have to deal with). "


jjv124

join:2009-11-21
Hanover, PA

I am a bit surprised about the SARA love as well. I think is probably a mixed bag of the issue with the guide, plus people not being happy to change. We all know people tend to love what they had, even when they didn't love it and don't want something new. Because they get the new something and assume that any of their rate increase went to it and don't want that.



actor90
Never a dull moment
Premium
join:2003-07-21
Jackson, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to Camaro305

This new guide seems, from all reports, to be less functional then the current SARA guide in two key areas.

1. No Picture In Picture any longer. That is completely UNACCEPTABLE.

2. Broken zoom function in On-Demand and on DVR recorded programs. That is just plain sloppy coding in my book.

That is just two of the many reasons many of us love the SARA guide over this new clunky abortion of a guide.
--
My Blog on blogspot.com


jjv124

join:2009-11-21
Hanover, PA

Picture and picture is just something we'll have to live without now, or hook it up another way using your box to tv setup. The zoom feature...I don't understand how this is a problem at this point, the moto guide has no problem locking in a format in either of those so I'm not sure why this is an issue with the new guide.



cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
reply to Camaro305

mikedz used to complain about lack of PIP on Motorola set tops all the time. Seems like a Motorola DVR would be able to do PIP if the software was written to handle it. I-Guide is the limiting factor.

That big honkin advert at the bottom of the screen seems to be a big complaint.

It's going to be worse for you jjv! That Passport eye candy will be gone. Sianara to your transparencies and nice subtle GUI animation effects too! Goodbye IPhone OS, Hello Windows 3.1.


jjv124

join:2009-11-21
Hanover, PA

Yeah I know it's going to be different for sure. I have family in Lancaster who I've worked on getting a few things working for them and I am aware of how that a.28 guide looks and acts. It's certainly a difference from that passport echo guide, and honestly short of the MyDvr feature I'd rather stick with my current guide. But I know that's not going to happen and I'm kind of resigned to the fact I'm getting a guide expereince that's probably not as nice as my current one. Hopefully in the not too distant future we'll see the full 28 guide over and the beggining of the EBIF's so we can get that web interface ap that they showed at the cable show for the Ipad. Just hoping ya know



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Camaro305

Ok I have officially been told by Comcast's Toms River office that the Ocean County area is "no where near ready for the World of More offerings, nor the new guide, and that we have not even laid down the neccesary wires. It will be at least December or Janurary before its out". She was very rude to me and left me both stunned and speechless and she almost threw a remote control at me!


The Q

join:2008-06-26
Collegeville, PA

1 edit

Because in my experience the front counter office team is always the first to know (and the most informed) about such things.......



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to cypherstream

said by cypherstream:

mikedz used to complain about lack of PIP on Motorola set tops all the time. Seems like a Motorola DVR would be able to do PIP if the software was written to handle it. I-Guide is the limiting factor.
The Moto box is able to do PiP. The original Microsoft software package for Verizon had PiP on the Moto box, the QIP version of the DCT-6412 Phase III. The QIP and DCH/DCT differ by one tuner, they both can amply run the same software. Look at FiOS software for what a Moto box is capable of.

Part of the limiting factor of Iguide was the proprietary middleware between the simplistic and non-advanced proprietary linux kernal Moto ships the box with and the EPG written in C. While C is a fine language, it has been replaced by more advanced and effecient languages in the last 20 years that are better suited for client-side-execution of remote sent data in an extensible atmosphere. The "Jguide" or "Barcelona" version of Iguide that is near to us being installed on rented STB's is based on OCAP, which not only replaces the firmware, but also the middleware and stack to run Javatv based apps on a smaller footprint/larger libraried linux kernal and stack. Part of this is the removal of the oversized and underexecuted security protocal/stack and server awareness which was rolled into a much smaller module with the kernal (what OCAP started as), allowing more space and room for advanced features to reside. OCAP, when the right stack is installed, can also run .net and C# apps if the providers chose that route over the specifically designed Java module for CPE ETV. The selection of "Java" is beyond Comcast. It was a decision between CableLabs, NAB, CES, and others throughout the industry to define "Enhanced Television". Cable is preparing itself to offer whatever content exists, in any form, any transmission, to your home, on whatever viewing device you decide, over a single coax. Allowing Web 2.0 apps to run over the network for elder TV's is a good first step to "true" TV Everywhere, especially if Hulu really is the beginning of the death of affiliates as Les Moonves predicted the broadcasters would be venturing towards in 5 years time. The suppliers are preparing to carry this content to you, by first offering cutesy apps like MLB social chat and Caller ID, and later full blown applications if content requires.

EBIF, for example, was developed as a stop-gap to allow extensible execution on the aging Iguide boxes. By installing a "dumb" application on the box (A25 I believe was the Iguide version that installed this), the application is nothing more than an executing framework where the instructions are sent along with data from server side as tables within the stream and performed client side as graphics. This sounds ideal for a thin-client solution, but it isn't, as the data is streamed and the thin-client hardware isn't controlled, the footprint is larger than wanted, the memory allocation is shortened and very protected and bandwidth can become an issue depending on how complex the operation is. OCAP (tru2way) is more "Web 2.0" based in design, where the execution is local, the data is remote and both are extensible through DSG which would allow better data flow through packetable information rather than streams. The upgrade to "Iguide" has very, very little interest in actual "guide" operation and aesthetics. It is more an operation to get ETV into more homes to marry coax with internet.

The pictures, responsiveness due to streamed data instead of packets, colors, and 4:3 aspect ratio of Iguide are aged and lead most to assume it is an old and defunct product. A shame, really, as it is very well advanced for the hardware specs it is given to run on on. Either way, it's day of glory is long past and integration of TV and Web have sealed it's coffin.

The replacement of Passport/Echo to Iguide is a good indication that "Barcelona" is nearly upon us. A national roll-out of "Barcelona" is almost needed, as the data interchange and DSG activation is almost mandatory for it's roll out. While Head-ends are separable entities, it is bad business to continue to separate them when integration of source is not only more profitable, but also better for the consumer. Comcast has shown evidence that integration of head-end operation to more regional coverage is forthcoming. Iguide is replacing Passport/Echo for two main reasons:

1. Passport/Echo is solely owned by Rovi. Iguide is owned by a venture company whom Rovi and Comcast share ownership. It is more cost effective for Comcast to deploy Iguide.

2. Passport/Echo EBIF and OCAP solutions are not porting well between Iguide. Comcast has a larger share of Motorola made CPE with Iguide installed (as well as half ownership of Iguide) and has decided it is more time and cost effective to pursue a heavier Moto ETV solution than spliting and trying to port apps in support of both guides.


heat84
Bit Torrent Apologist

join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 edit
reply to schimmy

said by schimmy:

said by cypherstream:

Eff that, and eff passport.

I want this.

»/r0/download/1···iful.jpg

Now THAT's a grid!
So we'll see this in what? 5-7 years?
You've heard of concept cars(rarely any of which never go into production). This is a concept guide. Maybe we'll get lucky and this'll be a Dodge Viper.
--
Bit Torrent is my DVR.


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to markofmayhem

Do you think that Comcast will licence the new guide to other cable providers stuck on Motorola equipment? What about smaller operators that fall under the American Cable Association?

I'm moving out of Comcast territory. Buying a house, but it's served by "Service Electric Cablevision" which uses I-Guide A25 and a mix of Motorola DCT/DCH-3416 and Pace Tahoe/Aspen DVR's.

A company that small won't see a new guide for years, so I'm choosing Dish Network and the vip 922 DVR. 16:9, HD guide, full color icons/logos, PIP, program from iphone/web, caller id, etc. You think waiting around for giant Comcast to innovate was bad... I bet it's even worse for a smaller op like secv. Sure they have 75 HD's, DTA's and 870 MHz. But that software is a killer. And their I-Guide ad's show products like tide, lunesta, temperpedic, frosted flakes, sham-wow, etc. You thought Comcast's banner ad was bad? At least Comcast's shows relevant information as pertains to what's on TV.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by cypherstream:

Do you think that Comcast will licence the new guide to other cable providers stuck on Motorola equipment? What about smaller operators that fall under the American Cable Association?
Absolutely. Rovi and Comcast will license it out, whether or not it is a price others will pay.... well. Those banner ads you speak of are to subsidize the cost of not providing their own guide, higher carriage costs due to less subscribers, etc. A dime here and a penny there keeps the bill to customers within competitive reason.

I believe SECV is using some of the HITS services.
--
I can haz competition?

metalsaber1

join:2003-03-08
Slippery Rock, PA
reply to Camaro305

Still waiting in W. PA for the update. /sigh



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to heat84

said by heat84:

You've heard of concept cars(rarely any of which never go into production). This is a concept guide. Maybe we'll get lucky and this'll be a Dodge Viper.
With our luck it'll probably be a Ford Pinto

TurboDan

join:2006-06-08
Beach Haven, NJ
reply to jjv124

said by jjv124:

I am a bit surprised about the SARA love as well. I think is probably a mixed bag of the issue with the guide, plus people not being happy to change. We all know people tend to love what they had, even when they didn't love it and don't want something new. Because they get the new something and assume that any of their rate increase went to it and don't want that.
I have no love for SARA's UI, but it will be a sad day when I have to wade through SPAM in my guide that I pay for. THAT is the essential issue most people have with this, it seems.

jjv124

join:2009-11-21
Hanover, PA

How many ad's are there? I mean I saw the moto guide and it honestly wasn't this horrific mess of ads that I had to wade through. Now is it going to be a shock to the system the first few times you betcha, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I guess I'll let you know how I feel about it when it comes my way.


TurboDan

join:2006-06-08
Beach Haven, NJ

said by jjv124:

How many ad's are there? I mean I saw the moto guide and it honestly wasn't this horrific mess of ads that I had to wade through. Now is it going to be a shock to the system the first few times you betcha, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I guess I'll let you know how I feel about it when it comes my way.
Well, they want you do get used to it. That's part of the strategy. I actually find it exceedingly annoying, having seen it in action in the Atlantic County, NJ system. It honestly could make me flee from Comcast. The very fact that I can't scroll through the guide without mousing over a huge, hulking banner ad thrown in for good measure is simply infuriating to me.

And to think that I actually PAY for the privilege.


JimCramer

@comcast.net

Is there anything new regarding the new guide in Ocean County, NJ?


jjv124

join:2009-11-21
Hanover, PA
reply to TurboDan

said by TurboDan:

said by jjv124:

How many ad's are there? I mean I saw the moto guide and it honestly wasn't this horrific mess of ads that I had to wade through. Now is it going to be a shock to the system the first few times you betcha, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I guess I'll let you know how I feel about it when it comes my way.
Well, they want you do get used to it. That's part of the strategy. I actually find it exceedingly annoying, having seen it in action in the Atlantic County, NJ system. It honestly could make me flee from Comcast. The very fact that I can't scroll through the guide without mousing over a huge, hulking banner ad thrown in for good measure is simply infuriating to me.

And to think that I actually PAY for the privilege.
Like I said I've seen the moto guide and to me it's not that bad. However if the guide is such an issue for you, why not just then go with a tivo or a moxie?

shades

join:2001-06-26
Williamstown, NJ
reply to Camaro305

how about turnersville, new box message saying xfinity is here. well to me it looks oddly like before xfinity


The Q

join:2008-06-26
Collegeville, PA
reply to TurboDan

...cancelling my magazine subscriptions - I pay for that, why should I have to look through ads?


neufuse

join:2006-12-06
James Creek, PA

ad's in magazines subsidize the magazine...... your $2 magazine costs way more then $2 in reality....



jmoz2989

join:2008-02-01
Moscow, PA
Reviews:
·Adams CATV
reply to TurboDan

If ads on a guide annoy you, I bet you'll just love channel surfing through a load of 'not authorized' messages. SA boxes currently have the luxury of skipping through channels not in the customer's paid package whenever surfing w/channel up and down buttons.
--
-Cruising along contently on a $35 a month dumb pipe.
-Want change? Satire often works, sarcasm not at all.


The Q

join:2008-06-26
Collegeville, PA
reply to neufuse

said by neufuse:

ad's in magazines subsidize the magazine...... your $2 magazine costs way more then $2 in reality....
I would think the same example would also hold true for TV programs and the on-screen guide.

In either case, the ads offset the cost or add to the profit of a publicly held company. That was the initial business model for broadcast television and is core to most media business plans including publishing and online.

Why are cable tv companies held to a different business standard than newspapers and magazines or any other business? My monthly/weekly train pass even has an advertisement on it. The Philadelphia Inquirer even has ads sometimes on page 1.

TurboDan

join:2006-06-08
Beach Haven, NJ

1 edit
reply to neufuse

said by neufuse:

ad's in magazines subsidize the magazine...... your $2 magazine costs way more then $2 in reality....
Oh, so I guess a few dollars will be knocked off my bill when they plaster ads on my screen then, right? I mean, it's being "subsidized" by the ads, after all.

You know, JUST ONCE, Comcast could make an attempt to put its customers first and sacrifice a few sheckles for the masses. There's a reason why this company is consistently rated among the worst in America in customer surveys. These people are hated so much they had to put bulletproof glass up in their offices. Sheesh.


newguide

@comcast.com

said by TurboDan:

Oh, so I guess a few dollars will be knocked off my bill when they plaster ads on my screen then, right? I mean, it's being "subsidized" by the ads, after all.

You know, JUST ONCE, Comcast could make an attempt to put its customers first and sacrifice a few sheckles for the masses. There's a reason why this company is consistently rated among the worst in America in customer surveys. These people are hated so much they had to put bulletproof glass up in their offices. Sheesh.
Here's something else to think about though. Why Does TiVO charge you a monthly fee to use hardware you purchased?

primary reason? The cost they must pay to the companies who provide the guide data to them. MSO's have that same per-sub kind of cost for the actual guide data.

Tribune and Rovi (the 2 big guide providers) both charge a monthly subscription fee for their data. It's not cheap. IMHO, if the ads help offset the cost of that guide data, I'm not going to complain too much. Considering those licensing fees are paid per device (as in, per box), If it helps keep the boxes from experiencing the same regular rate increases we see for video when the provider jacks their prices, I'm happy.

Remember, you box rental rates cover the cost of the hardware, as well as the monthly licensing for the guide data, guide software (including IP Licenses for things like Macrovision, video codecs, etc), and also to a small extent the cost of the box overhead (warehouse staffing, cleaning, repair).


ashraffool

@verizon.net
reply to TurboDan

to most ppl , ads are ignored but it makes more money for comcast. same reason there are ads in bus shelters , side of pay phone booths beginning of DVD, all over. sorry customer doesn't come first especially those that are impossible to please

said by TurboDan:

said by neufuse:

ad's in magazines subsidize the magazine...... your $2 magazine costs way more then $2 in reality....
Oh, so I guess a few dollars will be knocked off my bill when they plaster ads on my screen then, right? I mean, it's being "subsidized" by the ads, after all.

You know, JUST ONCE, Comcast could make an attempt to put its customers first and sacrifice a few sheckles for the masses. There's a reason why this company is consistently rated among the worst in America in customer surveys. These people are hated so much they had to put bulletproof glass up in their offices. Sheesh.