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limegrass69
Here's my Posting tag

join:2008-05-28

End users are idiots??

It's pretty scary that hardware manufacturers are trying to take control of your OWN network away from you.

I know, I know...they know what's best for us.



RiseAbove
Premium
join:2004-01-30

1 recommendation

said by limegrass69:

It's pretty scary that hardware manufacturers are trying to take control of your OWN network away from you.

I know, I know...they know what's best for us.
Welcome to America enjoy your stay.

Corporations are trying to take over every minute and every second of your day with chances to capitalize monetarily so I'm not surprised by this. I am surprised that Cisco is doing it though considering they seemed to be more on the up and up compared to other companies.
--
20" Imac 2.16mhz Core2Duo 2GB DDR2 ram FOR SALE inquire within.

33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2
reply to limegrass69

said by limegrass69:

It's pretty scary that hardware manufacturers are trying to take control of your OWN network away from you.

I know, I know...they know what's best for us.
no just ones by name of peterboro


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to limegrass69

said by limegrass69:

It's pretty scary that hardware manufacturers are trying to take control of your OWN network away from you.

I know, I know...they know what's best for us.
The Cisco web assistant should be an opt-in choice if they insist on having one.
--
Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC?


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to RiseAbove

said by RiseAbove:

I am surprised that Cisco is doing it though considering they seemed to be more on the up and up compared to other companies.
to the cisco "purists" out there, "linksys-by-cisco" kit is not true "cisco" kit. it may have the shiny bridge logo on it, but i believe that the purchase was just to put the cisco logo in front of people so that when other consumer electronics came out boasting the same logo, people could identify it. the original "cisco" line (where you config with the cli, sdm, or ccp) is actually very good and stable hardware (my 871w has been running for weeks and the 2821 before that was running over a year).

my comment to a cisco engineer (in the san jose campus) after the initial purchase of linksys by cisco went something like this:

me: "what are your feelings towards cisco buying linksys?"
engineer: "pretty indifferent. it doesn't change much. how about yours?"
me: "i thought that cisco purchasing linksys would make the hardware better, and actually work"
engineer: "yeah, good point. i thought it would too. seems like the purple makes everything suck"

my two bits. am i surprised that cisco's doing this? nope -- especially not after their latest ios licensing move.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to RiseAbove

Why do you expect anything decent from a sociopathic entitiy?



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to tubbynet

said by tubbynet:

the original "cisco" line (where you config with the cli, sdm, or ccp) is actually very good and stable hardware (my 871w has been running for weeks and the 2821 before that was running over a year).
Yeah, my Zyxel router has been up for a couple years without a hitch - Cisco certainly hasn't cornered the market for stability.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

said by SLD:

Yeah, my Zyxel router has been up for a couple years without a hitch - Cisco certainly hasn't cornered the market for stability.
i never said that they had cornered the market on stability -- but seeing as it was a discussion about cisco (actually, linksys-by-cisco which is *crap* and many people now equate shitty consumer hardware with shitty soho or enterprise gear), i felt compelled to say that once you leave the "linksys" line, you get good hardware.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Frankley, Cisco is pretty crappy compared to the available options. It may work as well, but it is harder to configure and costs much more. I've been using 3Com switches in the Datacenter and they run circles around Cisco if you consider price and ease of use.



tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by SLD:

Frankley, Cisco is pretty crappy compared to the available options. It may work as well, but it is harder to configure and costs much more. I've been using 3Com switches in the Datacenter and they run circles around Cisco if you consider price and ease of use.
poh-tay-toe, poh-tah-toe.
i'm glad 3com works for you.

sure -- ios isn't menu driven. thats what makes it powerful, and when you use monolithic ios, your commands are the same on the 871 as they are on cat6500s. couple that with the flexibility of chassis like the 6500e, where you're able to run mixtures of copper blades, 10gig fiber blades, fwsm's for datacenter firewall contexts and ace modules for load balancing all in the same box -- you *can't* beat that. run two of those chassis in a vss and you've got distributed ha on your firewalls and loadbalancing. there is a reason cisco kit is always popular -- and its not just good marketing.

however, if you feel that you're better than anyone running cisco because you run "3com in your datacenter", i'm happy.

back to regularly scheduled discussion regarding *cisco*...

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

I don't feel that I'm "better", I just pointed out that the myth that Cisco is the best way to go is false. BTW, the featues that you listed are available in my other vendor's equipment, including 3Com (HP now).



tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by SLD:

I don't feel that I'm "better", I just pointed out that the myth that Cisco is the best way to go is false. BTW, the featues that you listed are available in my other vendor's equipment, including 3Com (HP now).
thats great. many other manufacturers make such gear too (juniper, force10, brocade, etc.). the issue isn't always availability or price, but the level of support you can get, both directly from the manufacturer and through other outlets. cisco (due to its popularity) has support everywhere, from millions of configuration examples on the website, to knowledge base articles, to mailing lists, to random bloggers. thats not including tac support for when things really go pear shaped.

i am not any better than someone who uses brand "j" or brand "f" if they can use their preferred gear and make it do the same things. even better if they can do it for less work or less upfront gear cost. i know that there are several places that juniper has cisco beat *hands down* and have used j* gear to fill that need. part of being a *good* network engineer is knowing what works best for the situation you're in, being able to justify that business case (especially if it deviates from prior purchases) and then design the solution without any issues. the "myth" that cisco is better doesn't exist for people who are regularly in the design and testing phase of network deployment.
do i *prefer* cisco -- yes, its what i've been using and learning on for the better part of 8 years. do i critcize cisco for business decisions? sure. look at my posting history regarding linksys products, the new cisco licensing methods, as well as any number of rants/complaints i have about syntactical differences between minor code revisions or features appearing in a release (and being robust and stable) only to disappear in another release. no company is perfect and everyone has a personal choice. i've had bad experiences with procurve switches in the past and have tended to shy away from them. you make them work. in the end, we both win.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to limegrass69

I do not agree with limegrass69's subject line for this matter. In reality end users are not idiots, they are ignorant about issues related to the service or product they are purchasing. Companies like Cisco take advantage of that ignorance and configure their product in a way that produces results that customers may not expect. Most of these corporate configurations work to the disadvantage of the customer. The easiest customer to scam is one that is ignorant about the product or service that they are purchasing or leasing.


ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL
reply to tubbynet

The Cisco vs the world argument is an old one.

Cisco bought Linksys to get into the SMB space, which Cisco had zero presence at the time.

The first attempt to monetize it was the "trade up" program where you would get a faux discount on a catalyst if an SMB dragged in their old Linksys gear. Not many takers on that one.

Second attempt was to increase brand recognition by placing the "Linksys by Cisco" label on the gear. Most buyers didn't care as long as it did what it was supposed to. The only oversight in this era was taking open source off the WRT54 and putting on VxWorks. Flop city.

Third attempt now is to rebrand Linksys gear in a different color and call it Valet. Like it will do everything for you. To me that is a consumer direction and leaving the SMB space.

Linksys used to try various market niches in the prosumer/SMB space often and early. They appear to be running second fiddle now and release competing product after their competitors.

There is nothing wrong with Cisco Corporate as hardware and the IOS goes, (except for some sales tactics) but their value equation doesn't fit in the SMB or emerging network market. Too many examples to list here.

On a funny note, back in the old days, I figured out how to silence a room full of Cisco reps who were feeling pretty good about themselves....I said that Intel was buying out Bay Networks. You could hear the clock on the wall ticking after that one.

Give Cisco credit, they keep trying, but they are too attached to the teat of monthly maintenance income, which SMB's avoid.


Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to limegrass69

i had always pictured the Cisco buy of Linksys was Cisco seeing that as an easy way to enter a lower end market(cheaper to buy a brand then build a brand)

and the fact they neutered the open source WRT54G almost right away pretty much proves they where also just a tad worried that a low end router could be made to do things a cisco router costing 5times as much does(not as well but for a small business or a techy its good enough).
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

Frankley, Cisco is pretty crappy compared to the available options. It may work as well, but it is harder to configure and costs much more. I've been using 3Com switches in the Datacenter and they run circles around Cisco if you consider price and ease of use.
I have actually seen a lot of reports on the WHT (webhostingtalk.com) in the colo section that 3com switches have reliability problems (a lot of failures or bad ports). We used to use extreme switches way back when but now we only use cisco as they are the only ones that have proven to handle the load/beating we place on them.
--
20/2mb Charter, 18/1.5mb U-verse, 6mb/768k DSL Extreme load balanced for a total of 44/4.2


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

That's a bummer. Maybe the luck is in the draw. I have a few that are serving over a Gigabit constant traffic for some high-ranking websites. Never saw a hitch. Some others that push about 300Mbit constant run great too.



houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by SLD:

That's a bummer. Maybe the luck is in the draw. I have a few that are serving over a Gigabit constant traffic for some high-ranking websites. Never saw a hitch. Some others that push about 300Mbit constant run great too.
Although they can be proportional to each other they aren't always I heard the problem was the pps (not the bps).
--
20/2mb Charter, 18/1.5mb U-verse, 6mb/768k DSL Extreme load balanced for a total of 44/4.2