KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to n1zuk
Re: Is listening illegal? Not unless the law says so... really any unencrypted RF should have zero expectation of privacy. i mean if you are just beaming it out there for the world to see.
what an AG should be more worried about is all those insecure WAPs, in this era where the MPAA can sue you for piracy even if it wasnt you, that alone is reason enough to secure the network.
never mind things that are illegal like child porn, guess where the FBI goes if the Scumbag uses your open wifi.
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | said by Kearnstd:really any unencrypted RF should have zero expectation of privacy. i mean if you are just beaming it out there for the world to see. what an AG should be more worried about is all those insecure WAPs, in this era where the MPAA can sue you for piracy even if it wasnt you, that alone is reason enough to secure the network. never mind things that are illegal like child porn, guess where the FBI goes if the Scumbag uses your open wifi. I'm more concerned that terrorists might use the AP to communicate do other nefarious things.
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 DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
| I'm more worried about Google than these nebulous "terrorists".
People that steal because "we left it unlocked" are called thieves of opportunity. They are the lowest.
If you like Google and wish to assimilate with them, go ahead. Keep your snooping eyes away from my house. Personally, I think we are way too interconnected. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | said by DavePR:I'm more worried about Google than these nebulous "terrorists". People that steal because "we left it unlocked" are called thieves of opportunity. They are the lowest. If you like Google and wish to assimilate with them, go ahead. Keep your snooping eyes away from my house. Personally, I think we are way too interconnected. why do you have an open AP in the first place?
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standard disclaimers apply. |
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DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | Whether I have an unsecured wireless access point or not is immaterial. It is none of anyone else's business that I am transmitting, period. Google (and other wardrivers) are intruding. What ever happened to respecting someone else's privacy? |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | don't confuse accesing your network with monitoring your transmissions. If you broadcast in the clear, all bets are off.
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standard disclaimers apply. |
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| It doesn't matter if you access my network or not. Google had no right to use special systems to invade my privacy. Google is not a businessman looking for a free public wifi hotspot so he can check his mail. Their purpose in invading my privacy was for one goal only; to diminish that privacy.
When will you decide they have gone too far? |
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| reply to AVD
I do not broadcast, in the sense of the federal law. Broadcast means to spew voice and music and news, as in Radio and TV stations. A wireless data connection is a 2 party private connection, conversation, etc. It is not readily available on ubiquitous receiving equipment and is not programmed for the general public.
So if I leave my car unlocked, it's OK for you to steal my camera off the back seat? |
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 n1zukBreak out the checkbookPremium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2 | reply to DavePR
said by DavePR:Whether I have an unsecured wireless access point or not is immaterial. It is none of anyone else's business that I am transmitting, period. Google (and other wardrivers) are intruding. What ever happened to respecting someone else's privacy? So, respect should be legislated?
Radio frequencies are just a segment of the electromagnetic spectrum. At the low end of the frequency range, sound. At the higher end, light.
If you yell out to the sidewalk in front of your house, is there an expectation of privacy that no one should listen? Of course not. Carry on a conversation in your home? Then it is considered private.
If you stand naked on your front porch, is there an expectation of privacy that people on the street shouldn't look at you?
Keep your WiFi signals off of the public way, and in a place which you control, then you can expect privacy. Place those signals out in public? Not private.
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DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | Electronic eavesdropping is a felony. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | said by DavePR:Electronic eavesdropping is a felony. [citation needed]
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | reply to Dave P R
said by Dave P R :
I do not broadcast, in the sense of the federal law. Broadcast means to spew voice and music and news, as in Radio and TV stations. A wireless data connection is a 2 party private connection, conversation, etc. It is not readily available on ubiquitous receiving equipment and is not programmed for the general public.
So if I leave my car unlocked, it's OK for you to steal my camera off the back seat?
1) google didn't steal anything
2) transmission=broadcast, laws of physics
3)as a matter of law, google did not violate the ECPA, as cited above.
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DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | TV stations, Radio Stations, NDBs and NOAA Weather Radio broadcast. I do not.
ECPA was intended to make low cost personal communications more secure by banning unconcerned parties from eavesdropping.
Is Google not eavesdropping? |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | said by DavePR:TV stations, Radio Stations, NDBs and NOAA Weather Radio broadcast. I do not. ECPA was intended to make low cost personal communications more secure by banning unconcerned parties from eavesdropping. Is Google not eavesdropping? Dave:
you can spin this any way you want, Google did not break this law. ECPA of 1986 only banned eavesdropping on encrypted and "real" cell phone (800mhz) communications.
As a US citizen resident, the ECPA of 1986 authorizes you to monitor anything that goes over the public airwaves.
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DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | They are intercepting private communications, and saving the data for commercial gain. This is not allowed. A case can be made that they have stepped over the line. |
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n1zukBreak out the checkbookPremium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2 | said by DavePR:They are intercepting private communications, and saving the data for commercial gain. This is not allowed. A case can be made that they have stepped over the line. Where is the expectation of privacy? As long as no one has physically trespassed onto private property, no eavesdropping has taken place. If you do not wish for your wireless network to be heard in places not in your control, you need to design your system not to allow your signals to go beyond the areas that are in your physical control.
And how does "commercial gain" come into play? Are you suggesting that it isn't illegal if it is not profitable?
Our discussion isn't about "stepping over the line", or the ethics of Google's actions. We have been discussing the legality of their actions. Seems as your arguments have been confused about this.
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| "..commercial..gain..." is a factor in the statute to be considered when determining criminality.
The Chocolate Factory stepped over my property line, got unique identification data from my equipment, then used it to make money.
Their only defense is that I was "broadcasting" to the "general public"? How many of them can I get in front of my house? How "off the shelf" is the hardware and application to glean this data? |
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n1zukBreak out the checkbookPremium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2 | said by Vernon73pl :
The Chocolate Factory stepped over my property line, got unique identification data from my equipment, then used it to make money.
If they stepped onto your property, they were eavesdropping.
Google was out in the street (a "public way"). Big difference.
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