| [H/W] Cisco 851 versus new gen cheap routers (ex:Dir-600) Hello
I am CCNA student and also i am trying to get some toys working around.I have a FTTB 100mbps internet connection in my home that now go through a DIR600 with DD-WRT installed.Here is my dad connected too.
Being a CCNA student that need a certification i decided to get a toy and being exposed to a Cisco real router.Unfortunetly now i don't have enough to build a lab.
First i wanted to buy a 861 brand new but after i read about ASA5505 i restricted myself to this 851 until i have enough money.
Also i wished a router that can handle 100mbps traffic (torrents, games and some usual) but also exposing to the Cisco equipment so i said instead of spending now 230euros on 861 i may be able to buy an ASA5505 later at around 400euros..What's your opinion?I bought the 851 with 105$..
Now my DIR-600 with DD-WRT is pushing a 5MB/s max on torrents and other multithreading stuff.Unfortunetly this is half of my current connection and if i plug the utp cable from my ISP directly to my Broadcome NetExtreme NIC i get 12MB/s from same locations.Another thing regarding the DIR600 is i heard that DD-WRT is slow versus stock firmware but when i bought the router i just flashed directly with DD-WRT and because of a bug in DD-WRT i cannot reflash to original D-link to test the thing.
So the question that comes in mind is the Cisco 851 (produced in 2006) versus the cheap 40$ that are produced in 2009 or 2010? |
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Reviews:
 ·Nexicom
| 1. You can't compare them. The Cisco is vastly superior hardware.
2. The "stated" throughput for the 851 is 5Mbit.
3. My experience with the 851 (we've had a couple) is that with a basic NAT config, you can push 20Mbit of "normal" traffic (like a web download) through it with relative ease. I have not been able to test it with connections any larger than that.
You will likely find that the 851 will be faster "at the limit" than the D-Link (since the D-Link is already choking); but with the CPU and potentially memory usage pegged on either device, you really aren't doing yourself any favours.
In contrast, the ASA5505 is rated for 150Mbit throughput. |
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| thx for reply..
So the way is ASA5505.Fortunetly i didn't throw too much money on the 861.I maybe jump directly in a couple of month to the ASA after dealing with the 851.
So even if the 851 is from 2006 is still much better than 2009 and 2010 stuff... |
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Bink
join:2006-05-14
Denver, CO
kudos:4 | reply to badsykes1
For your 100Mbps connection, most consumer-class and low-end Cisco routers will have issue with this. While you do want to have some Cisco gear for your Cisco studies, almost any computer with GigE NICs and an open source operating system (I use OpenBSD, but you might find something like pfSense far more simple) can handle this.
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“You do know that OS-X is built on BSD, which is a derivative of Unix. So in essence, you are still using Linux.”—gregz |
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| you mean to build another rig and make it a router? |
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Reviews:
·Nexicom
| said by badsykes1:you mean to build another rig and make it a router? That's exactly what he means. PFSense is a great BSD-based firewall distro. That would also do the job handily until you can get your ASA. |
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| thx guys for replies..
Now that i bought the little 851 for fun i have another question..
Is there any other source for latest IOS version because i am a home user not a company or do i need to find someone that have a smartnet contract and tell him to download the file for me? |
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| reply to badsykes1
ASA Throughput Test |
router charts on smallnetbuilder.com. Some of the max thruput and max
simultaneous connection numbers are unbelievable!
»www.smallnetbuilder.com/componen···mid,189/
And just to whet your appetite what an ASA can do, here's an iperf graph for
a 5505 with 10 simultaneous streams.
As for IOS, I can only say "there are other sources but outside of SMARTnet
they are not legal." Full stop.
Regards |
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Bink
join:2006-05-14
Denver, CO
kudos:4 | Cool site—thanks—I didn’t know about this/didn’t know so many inexpensive commercial devices could push that many Mbps. However, I didn’t find many of the maximum simultaneous connections listed impressive though (most of these devices have little RAM and that’s the Achilles heel here).
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“You do know that OS-X is built on BSD, which is a derivative of Unix. So in essence, you are still using Linux.”—gregz |
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| reply to badsykes1
Having been in the enterprise arena now for some time, I'd agree with
you Bink. But how about some of those bottom numbers? And I used to
wonder why boxes from the local electronics stores couldn't handle
multiple simultaneous streams of traffic without choking.
Regards |
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elnino
join:2006-08-27
Akron, OH | reply to HELLFIRE
said by HELLFIRE:And just to whet your appetite what an ASA can do, here's an iperf graph for a 5505 with 10 simultaneous streams. That's a cool application, I'll have to try it out! I know for a fact I've seen the 5505 do 30-40mb/sec or so using 2 or 3 simultaneous FTP sessions. Could have been more possibly, but it was already consuming most of our bandwidth at the time. |
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| reply to HELLFIRE
haha... Damn if i would have found this site earlier before buying the dlink..Seems the Cisco 851 is after all killed by new gen cheap products in performance.For 60$ 619Mbps ...
»EnGenius ESR-9850 300Mbps Wireless N Router
this guy here posted some numbers.I will keep the Cisco for the sake of my CCNA. |
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Reviews:
·Nexicom
2 edits | said by badsykes1:haha... Damn if i would have found this site earlier before buying the dlink..Seems the Cisco 851 is after all killed by new gen cheap products in performance.For 60$ 619Mbps ... » EnGenius ESR-9850 300Mbps Wireless N Routerthis guy here posted some numbers.I will keep the Cisco for the sake of my CCNA. That's a LAN speed test (the one for the EnGenius you linked to); it measures the throughput of the internal switch in the device, which is listed as "gigabit".
This is NOT the same as the device's ability to push packets across the WAN interface, which I didn't see any mention of in my quick glance at that thread.
I find it funny that his results with the switch are half that of the results from the test performed by the website HELLFIRE linked to, LOL |
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| Do you think that the ENgenius can't handle 2 clients and give them to both a shared 100mbps connection?ASA is more for many more users with many many connections simultaniously but the Engenius at least should support 2-3 at wirespeed.
So what rates you guys think i will get from the 851.Now my dlink with DD-WRT is capped at 5.2MB/s so it's around 40mbps.After reading around about the 851 i expect this to be halved so maybe around 3MB/s..What do you think? |
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Reviews:
·Nexicom
| All you can do is try it. I have an ASA 5505 arriving on Tuesday. I'm going to use the software from that benchmarking site that HELLFIRE linked to and run some of my own testing. See where it ranks.
I'd benchmark my 1841, but I'm just too lazy, LOL. |
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| reply to badsykes1
@elnino
»code.google.com/p/xjperf/
It's just a graphical Java frontend to iperf for Windows. It's my first time using it, but I'm planning
to use it ALOT more in the future for throughput testing
@badsykes1
Look up routerperformance.pdf, take the number you find and divide by half. The 851 was good in its day
but the short version is for pipes bigger than 100Mbps, I wouldn't go lower than the 89x, 181x / 19xx
or an ASA5505 period.
@OVERKILL
Let us know if you do ever benchmark it. I'm still wondering if it can even do the 38Mbit Cisco claims
it can do or not 
Regards |
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| This thread is getting intersting...
Hellfire.. which numbers to divide by two: the pps or mbit's?
I could get an 1812 for around 180$ but i thought an ASA5505 would be a more future proof thing and now i just bought a 120$ 851..I agree the difference in money wouldn't worth the 851..In some way i regret it..
How much sound does the ASA5505 emanate?I am already thinking of modifying the case of the router and apply 2 noiseblocker fans that are hanging around here instead of the tiny ones in the router..
My isp will not put Gigabit anytime soon so 150Mbps is more than enough throughput for me.The aditional 50mbps over my current bandwidth will be kicked by firewal. acl's and so on so basically i assume that i am not seeing a hit in performance by using more options.
Waiting for impressions and criticism on my thinking.. |
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 addp009Premium
join:2003-03-08
Markham, ON | reply to badsykes1
One thing about the throughput on routing / switching gear is that it is largely affected by the packet size. It is much easier to route 100mbps worth of 1500byte packets than 64 bytes packets. This is because bigger packets reduces the lookups in the fib, and hardware interrupts on the router.
When throwing out a throughput number, lets qualify it with a packet size.
Also note that routerperformance.pdf list throughput numbers for 64 bytes packets and with nothing configured. With no ACLs and just PAT, I would be shocked if actual throughput at 1500byte wasn't higher than the listed numbers.
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Addp009's Site |
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nosx
join:2004-12-27
00000
kudos:5 | Actual throughput with 1500 byte packets is almost always about half whats listed in the partner quick reference "routerperformance.pdf" product sheet. Those numbers are theoretical packets/sec based on processor, etc. |
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| reply to badsykes1
@badsykes1
quote:
which numbers to divide by two: the pps or mbit's?
Mbps, who the heck thinks in pps anyways? *LOL*
quote:
I could get an 1812 for around 180$ but i thought an ASA5505 would be a more future proof thing
The 1812 and ASA are two entirely different classes of devices, and
the futureproof thing is a bit of a moot point. If you want 100Mbit
internet, then I'd go with either one. If you want 100Mbit internet
AND learn CCNA, I'd go with the 1812.
If you have no experience with PIX OS and are somewhat daunted by it,
then I'd avoid the ASA.
Personally I own both an 1811 and an ASA and I've never regretted
purchasing either one.
quote:
How much sound does the ASA5505 emanate?
Literally none. There's no active cooling / moving parts. See here
for what the internals look like
»cisconews.co.uk/2007/12/27/asa-5···ry-hack/
I've had to open the case and put my head to the circuitry to
hear anything.
quote:
My isp will not put Gigabit anytime soon
My personal opinion, Gigabit is going to take as long as it took to get
from 14400 to the first gen DSL / cable. Sure, they can demo it all
they want, but until they roll it out with aactual equipemt and price?
Yeah, whatever...
@addp009 / nosx
Thanks for mentioning that, I'll see if I can't manipulate the test
packet sizes and see how much a performance delta there is.
Regards |
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