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BAINCH
MVM
join:2003-04-02
Blooming Grove, NY

1 recommendation

BAINCH to drslash

MVM

to drslash

Re: Suspended service, should I sign the letter?

said by drslash:

One more question, on the Mediacom end, do you have any way of knowing whether the offending IP address has a wireless network and whether it is secured or not? I say the answer is no. Some people just don't understand the risk they put themselves under if they have an unsecured wireless network. Does Mediacom try to work with customers who get a notice and claim they have no idea about such activity only to find out later that they had an unsecured wireless network?
We can see NAT translations going through but it doesn't tell us whether the router is wired, wireless or combo. If we provide the gateway then it is possible although that is not something we monitor (try to respect customer privacy.)

We have had a few customers claim, "I'm innocent, please help me prove it." In those cases we have investigated further and found a few common causes:

1. "little John junior" or his friends are responsible. Mom and Dad didn't know.

2. Open wireless, so the neighbor was doing it (still the customer's legal responsibility.)

3. Running bittorrent/edonkey etc for "legit" content and didn't realized many of those applications PUSH unrequested content to their computer for "temporary storage."

and my personal favorite:

4. "What? This is illegal? Then how come I'm just allowed to go to this website and download torrents?"
drslash (banned)
Goya Asma
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA

drslash (banned)

Member

Thanks.
threexk
join:2009-01-13

threexk to BAINCH

Member

to BAINCH
said by BAINCH:

said by drslash:

One more question, on the Mediacom end, do you have any way of knowing whether the offending IP address has a wireless network and whether it is secured or not? I say the answer is no. Some people just don't understand the risk they put themselves under if they have an unsecured wireless network. Does Mediacom try to work with customers who get a notice and claim they have no idea about such activity only to find out later that they had an unsecured wireless network?
We can see NAT translations going through but it doesn't tell us whether the router is wired, wireless or combo. If we provide the gateway then it is possible although that is not something we monitor (try to respect customer privacy.)

We have had a few customers claim, "I'm innocent, please help me prove it." In those cases we have investigated further and found a few common causes:

1. "little John junior" or his friends are responsible. Mom and Dad didn't know.

2. Open wireless, so the neighbor was doing it (still the customer's legal responsibility.)

3. Running bittorrent/edonkey etc for "legit" content and didn't realized many of those applications PUSH unrequested content to their computer for "temporary storage."

and my personal favorite:

4. "What? This is illegal? Then how come I'm just allowed to go to this website and download torrents?"
Funny. I know people who think #4, it blows my mind.

Just curious, what is done when the user claims someone hacked into their machine and used it for illegal downloads? Is the user still considered responsible? Are they guilty until proven innocent?

If someone breaks into my house and calls in a bomb threat, I shouldn't get put in jail, even if I had left a door unlocked.
k9iua6
join:2004-05-23
Dubuque, IA

k9iua6

Member

said by threexk:

Just curious, what is done when the user claims someone hacked into their machine and used it for illegal downloads? Is the user still considered responsible? Are they guilty until proven innocent?
I believe a resident would be responsible for any equipment they installed beyond what is provided or needed by their ISP. In other words, with a wireless access point you install, you would be considered responsible for seeing that it is secured and not being used by outsiders. I know that is the stance we place on the residential students at our educational institution. We permit them to install consumer wireless access points in their residences, but we also ask that they take at least minimal steps to secure them by changing administrator passwords and suggest they introduce some level of encryption and turn off broadcasting.

We actually had a case where we received an incidence of downloading copyrighted material, and when we traced it through our system, found it traced to an open wireless port. Fortunately it was another of our students who was inadvertently picking up that wireless access point instead of their own, and could take further steps, but it can happen.

But the short answer is that I believe the copyright holders would still see you responsible if someone used your network, with or without permission.
threexk
join:2009-01-13

threexk

Member

said by k9iua6:

I believe a resident would be responsible for any equipment they installed beyond what is provided or needed by their ISP. In other words, with a wireless access point you install, you would be considered responsible for seeing that it is secured and not being used by outsiders. I know that is the stance we place on the residential students at our educational institution. We permit them to install consumer wireless access points in their residences, but we also ask that they take at least minimal steps to secure them by changing administrator passwords and suggest they introduce some level of encryption and turn off broadcasting.

We actually had a case where we received an incidence of downloading copyrighted material, and when we traced it through our system, found it traced to an open wireless port. Fortunately it was another of our students who was inadvertently picking up that wireless access point instead of their own, and could take further steps, but it can happen.

But the short answer is that I believe the copyright holders would still see you responsible if someone used your network, with or without permission.
I can understand holding the user responsible if a user does something negligent like an open wireless access point, doesn't change their admin password, etc. However, I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to be responsible for the absolute security of their systems. Windows often has 0-day vulnerabilities, like the recent .lnk exploit that was found in the wild and took several weeks for Microsoft to patch. Same for ubiquitous web browsers, Adobe products, etc. Wireless routers can have 0-day flaws too; common models like the Linksys WRT54G have had them in the past. In fact, the WRT54G and others right now are susceptible to an attack called "DNS rebinding". If you expect users to keep their wireless routers perfectly secure, you expect them to not use them at all. Generally, perfect security is not currently attainable, so it's not a reasonable expectation.

You're surely right though that the content providers would still see you as responsible. I'm pretty sure they took at least one user to court who claimed they had been hacked. Mediacom isn't responsible for ascertaining someone's guilt anyway; they just follow the DMCA by conveying the accusation and under the DMCA the user has a right to appeal (i.e., counter-notification). I suppose when it comes down to it, legal changes are needed to prevent abuse by content providers.