| reply to KrK
Re: Tethering charges are BS said by KrK:If you have a cap, and pay overages, it shouldn't matter one bit how you choose to use your data. Charging extra for tethering is just an extra fee to make more profit, period. You do realize that if an application acts like ICS in any form - the carrier can NOT EVER know how much data you actually tethered. This is due to the fact the data comes from the data connection on the phone and not a separate connection. Verizon tried to "patch" ICS on WM devices, but that obviously didn't last long before someone figured out how to "un-patch" ICS.
AT&T wanted me to pay for a tethering plan - for using ICS. So my question to AT&T - how do you know how much data I am actually using if I use ICS? |
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 dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
kudos:2 | they could snoop on the packets and examine them for signatures that pc based applications use...
but they would never snoop through our data now would they? |
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| reply to k1ll3rdr4g0n
I don't understand your point.
Data is data. With AT&T you could be unlimited, 2GB, or 200MB.
Why does it matter how you used that data? Whether it is tethered or not, it's still the same data plan. But it costs $20 more to use the same data through tethering?
I see your point that they don't know how much you tethered, but why would that matter? It's still data that you are already paying for. So they charge you more to use the same exact data? |
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| reply to k1ll3rdr4g0n
I'm not sure where you are getting this ICS analogy, but AT&T does know how much data you use if you tether. It shows up in your monthly account statement, regardless of what is or isn't connected to the phone.
Data is data. It comes and goes to and from the phone. They know it's there. They measure it.
Verizon's problems measuring data, whatever they are, do not apply to AT&T. |
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| reply to skuv
said by skuv :
I don't understand your point.
Data is data. With AT&T you could be unlimited, 2GB, or 200MB.
Why does it matter how you used that data? Whether it is tethered or not, it's still the same data plan. But it costs $20 more to use the same data through tethering?
I see your point that they don't know how much you tethered, but why would that matter? It's still data that you are already paying for. So they charge you more to use the same exact data?
I think you see my point. AT&T wanted me to pay for a service that I wouldn't even use. |
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| reply to ruraltn
said by ruraltn:I'm not sure where you are getting this ICS analogy, but AT&T does know how much data you use if you tether. It shows up in your monthly account statement, regardless of what is or isn't connected to the phone. Data is data. It comes and goes to and from the phone. They know it's there. They measure it. Verizon's problems measuring data, whatever they are, do not apply to AT&T. I see we need a little networking 101.
So, ICS is short for Internet Connection Sharing (if you already haven't figured that out).
What does it do exactly? Take your home router, it is a physical representation of ICS. Take a look at the IP address of your computer that is plugged into the router, then goto some site like whatismyip.com. Notice they are different. Why is that? The router is performing what is called NAT (or Network Address Translation). What happens is that when you send a packet out from your computer it has a source and destination. The source will be the IP address of your computer, however, since that is a private IP it is not routable on the internet. So, your router changes the source to the IP address that was given to it by your ISP and sends it off. Now, the packet is routable and can get back to you. However, when the packet comes back the router changes the destination to the private IP of your computer and sends it on its way.
Now, with that said - put 5 computers behind the router, does any device on the otherside of the router know if the data came from your PC or the router (outside of course cookies or other tracking software)? Absolutely not. The outside world sees only a single device, your router, or in this case the phone. The outside world sees data coming from your device but will not, and will NEVER know if it was generated from the router, or your phone, or a device on a private network because the data's source IP address is changed before it hits the internet.
So, no, AT&T does NOT know how much data you actually tethered if you use a system similar to ICS. When I used ICS the data showed up as normal data and charged as such, which it should be because without a system like DPI (Deep packet inspection), you can NOT know about any devices on a private net from the ISP's point of view. This is due to the fact that the data simply isn't routable on the internet so the router, or ICS, will change the source address and AT&T will just say "oh, another packet from your phone".
Now....
Of course AT&T doesn't want you to use ICS for this very reason.
Instead AT&T wants you to install their software (red flag #1), and/or dial some number (red flag #2) instead of easily using ICS.
Source: »www.wireless.att.com/answer-cent···=KB64519 |
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| said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:I see we need a little networking 101. ......
Snip the rest of the garbage lecture.
You need a little reading comprehension 101. I said AT&T knows how much data you use if you tether. That is not the same thing as saying they know how much of it is from tethering and how much is from non-tethered use of the phone.
Bottom line, if you tether, the data is not mysteriously hidden from them, as you imply. If they want to know if, or suspect you are tethering, they can deduce that by examining the data stream. Data to and from tethered devices will not have the same characteristics as data solely to and from the phone. Whether they actually make that effort will be driven by internal policy questions/decisions that turn on law, public relations, and cost benefit ratios.
In other words, corporate self interest will dictate if they really care if someone is tethering surreptitiously or not. |
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| said by ruraltn:said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:I see we need a little networking 101. ...... Snip the rest of the garbage lecture. You need a little reading comprehension 101. I said AT&T knows how much data you use if you tether. That is not the same thing as saying they know how much of it is from tethering and how much is from non-tethered use of the phone. -snip- This sentence is wrong no matter how you phrase it. If you read my post (which seems like you didn't) you would understand that AT&T has NO IDEA HOW MUCH DATA YOU TETHER if you use a system like ICS. To AT&T on their counters its just data from the phone, so if you used ICS and purchased a tethering plan your montly usage would always show 0, period. Since, there is no way for AT&T to know if the data from your phone was requested from a PC or your mobile (well any evidence that can be upheld in court that is). |
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