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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to rv65
Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... Sorry, but I think that's a horrible option. One reason I enjoy my cable TV the way it is, is because when it works, it works. When my HSI goes out, I lose my phone. When my phone is out, chances are that the HSI is out.
In the last several years, I've had zero video outages. The last thing I really care to have is a stable platform for video become IP dependent in any form.
While it MAY be possible, at what expense? And how much is Tivo willing to pipe up $$ wise to ensure they get what they want? ... or are they going to continue to get the government to make a playing field that works for them.
I agree that I'd like to see more options, but where my disconnection remains is at who's expense and for who's benefit. I still see a company like Tivo as a parasite in it's existence that relies on a host to survive. Tivo has no other source of revenue other than cable, for the most part, or the other players (like satellite)... Tivo is unlike motorola or S/A even which have other divisions where income in generated. There is just WAY too much motivation for Tivo to get their way out of the cable industry to survive. You'll notice that the closest Tivo ever got to cable was to do a joint software venture.. they've not developed a cable box/unit "for sale" to cable have they? of course not as it's probably not as profitable. This, to be honest, was their major mistake.
I just still have many issues with Tivo and their business model. All one ever hears is how cable, an industry that built itself out on it's own dime, must constantly cater to everyone else who wants a piece of their business and have no major investment into it. | | |
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 rv65Ban Cat DeclawingPremium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1 | Cableco's are planning on moving to IPTV and use DOCSIS for the return path. Many newer boxes have this feature, but the cableco's aren't using it. The RCN return path requires their internet connection, so it's definitely possible. If a Cableco can use an embedded modem inside a STB, then why can't a 3rd party device use IP to access the cable system? Outages happen all the time, and that is with QAM as well. I would expect an IP system to be fairly redundant. Tivo wants providers to make it redundant. Cable is eventually going to migrate to IPTV. | |
2 edits | reply to fiberguy
@fiberguy.
Ever compared an SA8300HD to a TiVo with CableCARD support? No you haven't obviously. Or you would see that a TiVo actually has more features, better software, and is more responsive.
"But it doesn't have OnDemand". It has Netflix, which costs less.
TiVo pays for its self compared to a set-top rental after 2 years if you enjoy HD content.
And as for your remark about IP based tuning, you think it's a bad idea... ARE YOU KIDDING ME.
No seriously...
Why do people discuss an IP based solution? Because the current 14 (FOURTEEN) year old DAVIC code base the MSOs operate off of is closed and proprietary. So they WILL NOT allow TiVo to impliment a method to tune over it. Hence you use IP. IP is also part of Tru2Way...
But I bet you think Tru2Way is also not needed, pointless, and bottom feeding.
HOW THE HELL CAN YOU HATE TIVO. It's forcing the Cable industry to COMPETE...
I guess ONLY Sony should make Blu-ray players. And anyone else who makes Blu-ray players are bottom feeders.
You'll also notice the closer TiVo get's to having it's way. The closer we get to open standards? OMFG NO WAYZ OPEN STANDARDS MAKING MORE CONSUMER HARDWARE CHOICES, DROPPING PRICES AND CREATING DIVERSITY THROUGH COMPETITION!?
TEH BUSINESS MODELS MAKES NO SENSE, IT IS ARMAGEDDON FOR CUSTOMERS..
That's how you sound. | |
fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to rv65
Okay... take a look at what I was saying again.. right now, it's not as "simple" as you make it. RCN has a VERY small footprint, subscriber wise. They hardly have anything that Comcast or TWC have.. even COX. Cable boxes have had DOCSIS cable modems in them for many years now.
As it stands, the current return path is more stable than IP based return path. (see above) Also, it takes rebuilding every head end at a very expensive expense, and to be honest, while they can do it "for TiVo".. um, again, as I said, Tivo is a parasite of a business.. why should comcast fork out the money to appease Tivo? Of course tivo has their desires and wishes.. however, you need to take their halo off that you're putting on them as Tivo isn't exactly a angel of a company themselves.. they really have nothing more than a concept patented, they've sued people over and over for "a concept".. they sell equipment to the end user that has the capability to be used with out a forced subscription rate, thus making them a service provider themselves..
Sure, Tivo has their desires, but I'm sure the cable industry has theirs too. In this situation, the fact that tivo brings nothing to the table of this game, I hardly don't think that they're in much of a position to 'want" anything.. of course they can, as they have no risk what so ever in the game.
And yes, cable MAY eventually migrate to IPTV.. comcast has been talking about it all the way to 2000, however, it's not happened, yet. Its hard to say where they are going right now.. they also said they'd be running fiber to every home back in the early 2000's too, but as technology advances, so does their ability to use their existing hybrid fiber network to deliver more than what they thought was possible back 10 years ago... so really, it's hard to say when or even if they will continue with the whole IPTV thing.. right now they're delivering a heck of a lot of programming.. I really am not sure if we're going to see the need to increase capacity to, well, infinity for the near future. But to say "eventually going to..." while that's a safe bet, it's not always a guaranteed bet. | |
fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to DrThodt
said by DrThodt:@fiberguy. You're talking out your ass. Ever compared an SA8300HD to a TiVo with CableCARD support? No you haven't obviously. Or you would see that a TiVo actually has more features, better software, and is more responsive. "But it doesn't have OnDemand". It has Netflix, which costs less. TiVo pays for its self compared to a set-top rental after 2 years if you enjoy HD content. And as for your remark about IP based tuning, you think it's a bad idea... ARE YOU KIDDING ME. No seriously... Why do people discuss an IP based solution? Because the current 14 (FOURTEEN) year old DAVIC code base the MSOs operate off of is closed and proprietary. So they WILL NOT allow TiVo to impliment a method to tune over it. Hence you use IP. IP is also part of Tru2Way... But I bet you think Tru2Way is also not needed, pointless, and bottom feeding. Your replies make me hate life, they're based entirely out of reason. For god only knows what reason. But they make zero sense, and scream "fanboy". I mean really, HOW THE HELL CAN YOU HATE TIVO. It's forcing the Cable industry to COMPETE... I guess ONLY Sony should make Blu-ray players. And anyone else who makes Blu-ray players are bottom feeders. You'll also notice the closer TiVo get's to having it's way. The closer we get to open standards? OMFG NO WAYZ OPEN STANDARDS MAKING MORE CONSUMER HARDWARE CHOICES, DROPPING PRICES AND CREATING DIVERSITY THROUGH COMPETITION!? TEH BUSINESS MODELS MAKES NO SENSE, IT IS ARMAGEDDON FOR CUSTOMERS.. That's how you sound. Anger management anyone?
Um, sony isn't a bottom feeding company - they sell plenty of other products and services.
True2Way, a technology, isn't 'bottom feeding'..
Tivo, a company that has NO other business line other than a DVR that isn't even just hardware, in fact, REQUIRES a subscription to be used, and the overwhelming majority of consumers that have them subscribe to a pay tv service.. um, yea.. that's bottom feeding.. that's also parasitic. (A parasite can't survive without a host - look at the definition of both)
Tivo can't generate a subscription or hardware sale with out that of cable, and sometimes satellite.
Tivo has lost it's agreements with both DirecTV and Dish - ever wonder why? They force their ways into every industry they take part in and make demands that their business model can't cash.
I also never said I "hate" tivo.. hate has a pretty strong meaning... I don't take sides nor cheerlead (such as what you're doing right now) because you clearly can't see the basics of what I'm saying, which are tangible.
You let your emotions dictate you instead of applying logic. From what I see from you, "Tivo good, can do no wrong.. cable bad, they're cable"..
Don't bet.. don't put words into someone's mouth, don't assume.. stick to the facts. My opinions are mine..
And no one died and make tivo the great pioneers of "change"... they've failed many times over.. you can't be a winner when you put out a product that you expect should last and not be outdated as the rest of technology passes you by.. with that notion, maybe we should stick with analog TV because there are a small handful of users out there that just want basic cable.
think about it.. and really, leave the flames and personal attacks out of your post. | |
| @fiberguy.
yeah baseless statements make me angry when you're yapping to sound elitist.
You have made no actual rebuttal against TiVo based in uhm, what are those things called? Facts...
"TiVo makes you pay for service that requires updates. How awful  "
No Seriously let's get back to comparing set-tops... You completely disregarded that because you don't have a leg to stand on.
You also have zero understanding of cable history. Because the "bottom feeder" arguments were the same used against Cable back in "the day".
You have obvious tunnel vision. Sorry you think it's a "personal attack". But SOMEONE had to point out how blatantly incorrect you are.
Microsoft must be bottom feeders also.
Damn that MCE! Recording things that only cable should be allowed to record. Because it's not like YOU pay to access it or anything. So YOU have no say in it.
I also like how you ignored the part where you were downplaying ip tuning, despite the fact it's part of Tru2Way...
I guess Tru2Way isn't needed is it?
TiVo has made cable more open to the consumer. Guess that's turriblez. | |
bus7821
join:2003-08-07
San Pedro, CA
1 edit | reply to fiberguy
Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... @fiberguy
Every company/industry which has ever bundled products and services together has fought to prevent competition for any part of the package. So far your arguments look like nothing but business as usual.
You cite Tivo’s difficulties with sat companies as evidence of something wrong with Tivo. I have no inside knowledge of the negotiations, but from what I read in the trades I see no evidence of anything but the typical preference for keeping all of the profit from one’s own inferior product over making less from letting an outsider carve out a piece of the pie. Reports suggest that Tivo’s previous management may have driven too hard a bargain over this, but that isn’t a fundamental argument against unbundling. If you have knowledge of something more that was going on here, please specify -- otherwise I don’t think this is much of a point for your case.
SDV is a necessary and logical thing, but I have to wonder if the adapter is artificially kludgy thanks to the actions of the cable industry. Are you willing to claim that it, along with Cablecards and Tru2way are honest efforts to open things up rather than give the illusion of open architecture for dumb regulators? We need look no further than the firewire interface to find an example of a requirement sabotaged by the cable industry (and which failure the industry now tries to spin as proof that the requirement was bogus.)
One point of sympathy that I do have for cable is the interference of the entertainment and broadcast industries in all of this. Even if one genuinely wanted to design an open architecture for a cable system, it would be difficult in the face of pressure from these other industries to keep various parts of it crippled or closed. | |
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