BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN Reviews:
 ·Integra Telecom
 ·voip.ms
 ·T-Mobile US
1 edit | reply to hottboiinnc
Re: Small ISPS And what about the subscribers that don't care for ESPN3? Is it fair to charge them access to content that they don't need?
This is exactly what's wrong with the direction things are going. ISPs need to provide people with a dumb pipe. Let the subscribers/consumer decide what content they want. If content providers want to charge $ for access, they should do it on a subscription level and not hold certain IP addresses hostage.
That would be like your mobile provider having to pay extra money so you can call certain blocks of phone numbers. It's complete garbage. |
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Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
| is it wrong for ATT to charge me for email addresses i don't use? you comment about ESPN doesn't have much weight because the access is built into the price the same as everything else is. If you don't use your ISP email; do you get a discount? Nope! they take away News Groups. You get a discount? Nope!
See my point? its built into the price and its the way things are going. You either accept the fact that the industry is changing and adopt or you don't and face the fact you'll either 1- go out of business (if you're an ISP that won't partner) or 2- face dealing with customers and their bitching about "prices". especially when a good share of the public now do NOT use their ISP email and they don't get any discounts for that.
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| reply to BlueC
and mobile provider and the 'net are 2 different things. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc:the access is built into the price the same as everything else is. Not initially, but as price hikes come along it will be. The real issue is that this sets a precedence. What about the HBO situation? What happens when some other popular content provider steps up to negotiate a similar deal? While $0.75 here or there may not seem like much, when 10 content providers step up with similar tactics, you're now looking at $7.50/mth for all subscribers. I for one will not be happy when my ISP increases my rate 18% for value added service I didn't ask for, nor will I ever use. |
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| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc:is it wrong for ATT to charge me for email addresses i don't use? you comment about ESPN doesn't have much weight because the access is built into the price the same as everything else is. If you don't use your ISP email; do you get a discount? Nope! they take away News Groups. You get a discount? Nope! But did you want them to keep News Groups and have the price go up? or have no News Groups and you can buy your own and not have to pay for the poor basic Groups + the GOOD higher cost one. |
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BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN Reviews:
·Integra Telecom
·voip.ms
·T-Mobile US
| reply to hottboiinnc
E-mail is not a worthwhile comparison to accessing 3rd party content. If someone doesn't use an e-mail address, it costs the ISP nothing (even if they use it, it's such little expense). If somebody chooses not to access a 3rd party content provider, the ISP is still paying for the service.
Regardless, it makes monopolies worse. If a large ISP chooses to not pay for certain content, the subscribers suffer. Like I said, it makes sense to leave the content access up to the subscribers and not the ISPs. |
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| reply to joepubpc
but the price never went down either. And that's the point. It comes back to the whole Muni thing. The majority of the customers (taxpayers) will decide on what is offered. |
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| reply to openbox9
and like my post below says. The majority will decide what you want. and you'll pay for it. if not you can change ISPs. Thats the way businesses work. |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| reply to BlueC
and yes it is. It does cost money. It costs money for that server to be on, it costs bandwidth, it also costs time to maintain that server and make sure its reliable. those items are not free.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to hottboiinnc
You fail to acknowledge that very few ISPs are co-ops that allow members to directly make decisions. |
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| they're still a co-op when it is said and done. But the fact is if they can provide it; there is no reason why nobody can't. especially when these co-ops only have a hand full of customers. |
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BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN | reply to hottboiinnc
Not anywhere near $0.75/user. If less people use their ISPs email address, don't you think there will be considerably less bandwidth used? less server use? etc
Of course those items aren't free, but it's not a fixed cost @ $0.75/user. |
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| and it can be. are you out sourcing it? Nothing is free. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to hottboiinnc
You've lost me now. Are you referencing a specific co-op that has successfully negotiated a deal with Disney for ESPN3 content? |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| there are several go check their ISP partners. If people on here would have read that a long time ago you would have seen that there are several Co-Ops and Munis that are offering ESPN360 to their customers. But instead everyone was on here bashing the idea.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Ok, so 11 coops (only counted ISPs with Coop in their name/website) have negotiated for ESPN3. How many consumers does that represent? What are the structures of those coops? I still standby ESPN setting a precedent that most consumers won't like in the long-run. |
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 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc:and like my post below says. The majority will decide what you want. and you'll pay for it. if not you can change ISPs. Thats the way businesses work. There really aren't too many choices available for most people. This particular business model takes all of the consumer influence out of the basic supply-demand chain. The only real option is to go without service, which isn't much of a choice from a practical standpoint.
Where can a consumer find an ISP that allows them to pay for TV programming, but not Disney channels? This is exactly where this ESPN360 model is taking us. It's a similar reason why HBO refuses to make their content available to Netflix. They don't want to deal with consumers choosing to pay $10 a month for content, they would rather have the ISP oligarchy fork over millions for their content and take the individual consumer completely out of the picture, except where used as a statistic to determine how much each ISP should pay in "extortion" fees.
I don't like it. The consumers can't make this die. All the power is in the hands of the ISPs, and the powerful conglomerates will simply use this to increase rates so that they make a bit of a profit, too, while calling it a value add. A smaller ISP, where the operating cost per customer is typically much higher, cannot afford to pay up to 5 times more per subscriber, and they are basically being priced out or missing out on features that will ultimately drive some of their business away, making an already tenuous endeavor even more so.
I do see where you are coming from, but I just don't think that there is enough consumer control to allow for this type of business model to take root without an investigation into some kind of regulation and oversight. |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| reply to openbox9
11 is better than nothing. And just because its not in their name or in their website it does not mean not a co-op there are several from Ohio that are co-ops on there and not in the name or in the url or on the front page of their site. But anyway. And it shows that small ISPs can do it, they just choose not to and want a law to protect them from something that they need to embrace now or later. And Customers can change ISPs if they choose not to want to support this. There is nothing stopping them from doing that. They always have a choice weather they want it or not. But instead they'd rather bitch about the fact that the industry is changing and is always changing. Time to wake up and smell the Starbucks.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| reply to jmn1207
Yes there are options. NetZero DSL/Dial up, Earthlink, there are 2 major providers there. The list can go on and on. Oh! did we forget DSLX? They're a nationwide provider but people choose NOT to go with them due to they actually add un"fees" to their bottom line to make more $$$ and then blame ATT for that charge. But that is something else to talk about.
And yes you can get away without having Disney. Again remember C-Band? It's still around and in business. People again, forgot about they have another option.
you are confusing ISP and TV providers as well. Which seems to be done on here when discussing this topic.
Customers can make this die! Ever hear about becoming your own ISP? There are several DSL resellers that will let you open up shop over night and offer services nationwide. people just don't feel like doing it; again- instead they'd rather bitch about not having an "option".
And here we go again with regulation. You add regulation and you'll get a higher bill. What's going to happen? Your ISP will go into court; they'll sue the FCC, and you'll end up with a bigger bill. We already seen what happened when everyone on here wanted a hard cap from Comcast. You got one. with that "regulation. but people asked for it, and got it, and still bitch.
Regulation does NOTHING but provent a company from doing what they want. If you don't like it, change companies and shut up about it. That's what customers should do. If you have a problem, vote with your $$$ and change ISPs someone will accept you until their tired of dealing with the bitching and just shut you off.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods |
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jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | said by hottboiinnc:Yes there are options. NetZero DSL/Dial up, Earthlink, there are 2 major providers there. The list can go on and on. Oh! did we forget DSLX? They're a nationwide provider but people choose NOT to go with them due to they actually add un"fees" to their bottom line to make more $$$ and then blame ATT for that charge. But that is something else to talk about. And yes you can get away without having Disney. Again remember C-Band? It's still around and in business. People again, forgot about they have another option. you are confusing ISP and TV providers as well. Which seems to be done on here when discussing this topic. Customers can make this die! Ever hear about becoming your own ISP? There are several DSL resellers that will let you open up shop over night and offer services nationwide. people just don't feel like doing it; again- instead they'd rather bitch about not having an "option". And here we go again with regulation. You add regulation and you'll get a higher bill. What's going to happen? Your ISP will go into court; they'll sue the FCC, and you'll end up with a bigger bill. We already seen what happened when everyone on here wanted a hard cap from Comcast. You got one. with that "regulation. but people asked for it, and got it, and still bitch. Regulation does NOTHING but provent a company from doing what they want. If you don't like it, change companies and shut up about it. That's what customers should do. If you have a problem, vote with your $$$ and change ISPs someone will accept you until their tired of dealing with the bitching and just shut you off. None of the solutions offered in your rant are very practical. You know this, and the conglomerates running our government know this as well. Very few people are going to give up HSI for dial-up or switch to satellite (if possible) because of a $4 annual price hike. It sucks, but there really isn't any other choice.
If ESPN360 were available for a subscription fee to everyone that had internet access, it would hardly make the same amount of money that they are making by having it bundled into our ISPs' services. Why is that? Because this business model makes a profit for both parties, and takes the consumer choice out of the picture. Also, by allowing everyone to sign up individually, the prices could be controlled by consumer demand, which would directly influence the quality of the product. No forward-thinking business wants to give that kind of power to the people.
It is the same problem we now see wth our TV content, which is why I lump this in with TV service. Disney wants the same business model for their internet content that they currently enjoy with their TV products. |
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