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chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Verizon a consumer's predator?

"Here's a real fact: Verizon wants what any massive, government-pampered duopolist wants: more strings-free taxpayer money, a lazy regulatory body with no consumer protection authority whatsoever, government protection from competition, and the ability to engage in any business practices they like, no matter how unethical or anti-competitive."

Sounds like the top executives would fail a business ethics course if they went back to college.
Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL

Angrychair

Member

Business ethics? Isn't that an antithetical?

coldmoon
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Fulton, NY

coldmoon to chgo_man99

Premium Member

to chgo_man99
said by chgo_man99:

"Here's a real fact: Verizon wants what any massive, government-pampered duopolist wants: more strings-free taxpayer money, a lazy regulatory body with no consumer protection authority whatsoever, government protection from competition, and the ability to engage in any business practices they like, no matter how unethical or anti-competitive."

Sounds like the top executives would fail a business ethics course if they went back to college.
The only people that the execs are accountable to are the shareholders who (presumably) have profit as their top priority. I don't think they would care what grade the execs got in their ethics classes or even if they ever took such courses...

JMHO

Mike
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99 to Angrychair

Member

to Angrychair
These courses do exist. At least in private schools.
chgo_man99

2 edits

chgo_man99 to coldmoon

Member

to coldmoon
I think schools really mean well by teaching those courses.

The more people in power who have some ethics, the less need for a regulation in government level.

These courses became very widespread since fall of Enron.

But unfortunately, the reality seems to be very different with government agencies overlooking consumer protections and going to bed with corporations for their money.

They should still teach those courses though. They should be in public schools as well.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz to coldmoon

Member

to coldmoon
said by coldmoon:

said by chgo_man99:

"Here's a real fact: Verizon wants what any massive, government-pampered duopolist wants: more strings-free taxpayer money, a lazy regulatory body with no consumer protection authority whatsoever, government protection from competition, and the ability to engage in any business practices they like, no matter how unethical or anti-competitive."

Sounds like the top executives would fail a business ethics course if they went back to college.
The only people that the execs are accountable to are the shareholders who (presumably) have profit as their top priority. I don't think they would care what grade the execs got in their ethics classes or even if they ever took such courses...

JMHO

Mike
The only people execs should be accountable to are the ones that SHOULD ENFORCE THE LAW.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Then you need to remove fiduciary responsibilities and disallow private investment in corporate structures. Talk about a sure way to kill CAPEX and stifle innovation.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz

Member

said by openbox9:

Then you need to remove fiduciary responsibilities and disallow private investment in corporate structures. Talk about a sure way to kill CAPEX and stifle innovation.
Fiduciary responsibilities are not an excuse to break laws without repercussions.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Broken laws? Did I miss part of the discussion?
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

said by openbox9:

Broken laws? Did I miss part of the discussion?
Anticompetitive behavior, backroom deals, cartel-like pricing... all quite illegal.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt to coldmoon

Member

to coldmoon
To the best of my recollection one of the major stockholders in Verizon is a foreign company, Vodafone. Listen carefully and you can hear the hissing sound as Vodafone tries to suck us dry! What interest does Vodafone have treating Americans fairly above profits.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to sonicmerlin

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to sonicmerlin
Anti-competitive behavior has occurred in a few instances and it's typically been squashed fairly quickly. Backroom deals? Our country is founded in part on making deals, and unless you have examples, I don't see how they're illegal. Cartel-like pricing? Hardly. Lack of sufficient competition in certain markets to get profit margins as thin as possible to favor consumers, possibly. But how is that illegal?
openbox9

openbox9 to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
What interest does Verizon have in treating you fairly above profit? What interest does any for profit company if treating your fairly beyond profit? BTW, Verizon Wireless is a joint venture between VZ and VOD with VZ owning a majority share.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

1 edit

1 recommendation

sonicmerlin to openbox9

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to openbox9
said by openbox9:

Anti-competitive behavior has occurred in a few instances and it's typically been squashed fairly quickly. ?
Wait wait, you don't think inflated special access prices is anticompetitive? There are ISPs in rural areas paying $100+/mb of bandwidth because only one company, either Verizon or AT&T, runs a line there, and they can price at whatever the heck they want. Even Sprint is at the mercy of V & T's special access lines.
quote:
Backroom deals? Our country is founded in part on making deals, and unless you have examples, I don't see how they're illegal.
It's anti-competitive you moron. If V, T, and Google are sorting out rules in closed-door meetings with an FCC in meetings without any input from the consumer or small businesses, how can anyone else compete?
quote:
Cartel-like pricing? Hardly. Lack of sufficient competition in certain markets to get profit margins as thin as possible to favor consumers, possibly. But how is that illegal
*faceslap* 90% of the industry is owned by 4 companies. What the heck do you think the word "cartel" even means? The antitrust measurement gauge that the FCC uses, the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index, has jumped by almost 700 points to 2848 since the 2003. A market is "highly concentrated' at 1800. The FCC is supposed to take notice at 2880.

Only Sprint is experimenting with pricing, and that's because they don't have a choice with all the customers they're losing. AT&T was able to slap on an abusive 2 GB cap despite the falling cost of wireless backhaul.

What kind of evidence beyond this do you NEED to see cartel-like behavior?
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

said by sonicmerlin:

Wait wait, you don't think inflated special access prices is anticompetitive? There are ISPs in rural areas paying $100+/mb of bandwidth because only one company, either Verizon or AT&T, runs a line there
So how exactly can it be anti-competitive if only one competitor exists?
said by sonicmerlin:

It's anti-competitive you moron.
What's the old saying about name calling in lieu of presenting a valid argument? I'm still waiting to hear what's illegal.
said by sonicmerlin:

What the heck do you think the word "cartel" even means?
said by dictionary.com :
car·tel [kahr-tel]
noun
1. an international syndicate, combine, or trust formed esp. to regulate prices and output in some field of business.
2. a coalition of political or special-interest groups having a common cause, as to encourage the passage of a certain law.
3. a written agreement between belligerents, esp. for the exchange of prisoners.
4. a written challenge to a duel.
If it weren't for the growing number of smaller wireless competitors, I could begin to see your concern.
said by sonicmerlin:

What kind of evidence beyond this do you NEED to see cartel-like behavior?
Something that actually highlights illegal activity would be a great start, particularly in relation to an actual law being broken.