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 dMarksMelting Faces For FunPremium
join:2007-02-09
Jackson, MI
 ·Comcast
| Re: Sorry, but they're right said by Markie:There are a LOT of reasons to avoid white space devices. TV interference is only one. I for one don't watch OTA (digital now) TV. Besides, I highly doubt it's actually that big of an issue. TBH I highly doubt there'll be any actual interference at all. This is all my opinion of course, same thing you're posting.
said by Markie:The other major reason is that there are tons of us already responsibly using the TV white spaces for wireless microphone systems, and we rely on a high degree of reliability that would be lost if white spaces become available. Weren't you using that before all this white space was opened up? If so...and there were no interference issues then...what exactly will be the problem now...? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
said by Markie:The tech world is quick to dismiss us... No, just those spreading FUD
said by Markie:...point out that our use is already unlicensed, not guaranteed, and only affects a small few compared to the "everybody" that would benefit from other white space devices. If I recall correctly, the wireless microphone issue is what got Dolly Parton to speak out against white space devices. I highly doubt Dolly Parton is going to be of much help to your cause, so bringing her up really...is just plain silly actually. Again, Wireless devices such as microphones have already been in use since before the transition to digital OTA TV. My guess is you already know that interference is going to happen, since it's done so for you when OTA analog TV was still going and you couldn't do anything about it. Guess what...you still can't do anything about it.
said by Markie:Quite simply, it's a real issue, and unless you basically never enjoy any form of entertainment or religion, it affects you. Everything from church services to pop concerts to auctions to sports games to live theatre relies on these wireless microphone systems. The loss of them wouldn't just affect the production engineers, it would affect you. The systems work in both directions, and are used for wireless in-ear monitoring too. Imagine if next time you go to church, a loud hiss interrupts a key part of the pastor's sermon. Imagine if the next time you go to a concert, hissing noises interferes with your favorite songs. Or imagine if the artist messes up due to annoying hiss and drop outs in his or her in-ear monitor. Imagine if next time you're at an auction, a flakey wireless microphone system leads to you bidding far more than you realized you were. This is the future if white space devices become reality. I'll say it once again. Wireless microphone systems, for one example, have been in place for a long time. Way before this digital transition. I will not say there won't be any bumps in the road...but I highly doubt there will be any difference once White Space devices are implemented.
All I see in your post is FUD, and that's pretty messed up.
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|  Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right Dude, your statement makes it clear you don't understand the issue at all. Digital TV didn't "open up" white spaces. It created far less white space spectrum. A great number of wireless microphone systems in the 700MHz band are now useless paperweights. What remains of the UHF TV band is now more closely consolidated with less white space. Running wireless microphone systems, especially many channels of wireless (the largest production I've been involved in coordinating microphones for was running 26 channels of wireless microphones on stage at once), has been getting very difficult already.
What the FCC is now proposing is to open the white spaces up to users OTHER than wireless microphone systems. They propose a database of wireless microphone systems that are installed so they can be avoided, however this blatantly ignores the fact that most wireless microphone systems are part of touring shows and temporary setups! I know that to the extent possible, I will enter every possible frequency as in use in this new mythical FCC database of wireless microphone users they propose for the venue I am a house sound engineer at. I can only hope and pray every venue does the same. That should at least blacklist white space devices, in theory, if the venue's house sound engineer is on top of things, from operating near theatres/churches/arenas/etc. But it doesn't do any good for every john doe who shows up and plays in coffeehouses... and from trampling on little country churches I've shown up at to setup a system for weddings... and from city parks I've ran concerts in.
See the problem? The FCC likes to blindly pretend the white space between TV channels is unused simply because very few people have licenses to use it. However, the FCC has always tolerated (though not outright permitted until recently) the use of wireless microphones in this space. And now, the entertainment industry, religions, sporting events, etc are dependent on these systems continuing to work - and so is everybody who enjoys these productions. That includes you. | |
| | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right P.S. Two things:
1. That should read that the FCC proposes to open up WHAT REMAINS of the white spaces.
2. Before you accuse me of spreading FUD, know this - if I were a gambling man, I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that I have more knowledge and certainly more real-world experience with UHF TV band wireless microphone systems than anyone else on this board. Including frequency coordination of large numbers of wireless channels at a time, and operation in extremely noisy environments.
P.S. I'm not going to say it'll be total doomsday. It won't. But it'll add a huge amount of unpredictability that'll make my job VERY difficult. Imagine I have a perfectly working setup in rehearsal for a concert. Audience comes in. A few turn on their new white space devices. Boom, wireless microphones not working reliably. First few songs totally ruined.
Now, I know what I'm doing, and you better believe I'll do everything I can to make sure shows don't get ruined. I can register every imaginable operating channel in the proposed FCC blacklist database. I can hide wireless receivers on stage very close to performers (the idea being the microphone is then more likely to be the strongest signal). I can have a backup plan in place. Etc.
It's the smaller users, the john does playing in a coffeeshop. They're the ones who won't have a clue and will just give up on wireless. And that'll be a sad day for America's indie performers, small churches, auctioneers, etc. | |
| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | said by Markie:I will enter every possible frequency as in use in this new mythical FCC database of wireless microphone users they propose for the venue I am a house sound engineer at. No you won't. They are planning for every metropolitan area to have one TV channel (6 MHz) designated in the database for wireless microphone use such as channel 40 designated in Pittsburgh. Otherwise wireless microphone users will have to depend on the signal sensing of the TV Band devices. | |
| | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right Wow that really stinks. I had read of a plan for venues to be able to enter the frequencies they're actually using. That's REALLY bad news. And thanks for letting me know it! | |
| | |  DaDawgsPremium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA
1 edit | said by Sammer:said by Markie:I will enter every possible frequency as in use in this new mythical FCC database of wireless microphone users they propose for the venue I am a house sound engineer at. No you won't. They are planning for every metropolitan area to have one TV channel (6 MHz) designated in the database for wireless microphone use such as channel 40 designated in Pittsburgh. Otherwise wireless microphone users will have to depend on the signal sensing of the TV Band devices. Which we will be able to turn off because the vendor will supply it with that option for over seas sales appeal.
The microphone people need to move their kibitzing to more appropriate spectrum. Since they just hijacked white space why not hijack something up around 1500 MHz? They did it once, why not do it again?
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| | | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right Do you have any clue how much money is invested in UHF white space wireless microphones? Or how many such systems have JUST been replaced recently to clear off 700MHz for the cell companies? | |
| | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | said by DaDawgs:Which we will be able to turn off because the vendor will supply it with that option for over seas sales appeal. The microphone people need to move their kibitzing to more appropriate spectrum. Since they just hijacked white space why not hijack something up around 1500 MHz? They did it once, why not do it again? There may not be any overseas market for a long time so IMHO there will be no user accessible option without illegal modification to turn off the signal sensing. In fact the potential for the violation of international treaties may be the biggest downside of unlicensed TV Band Devices. | |
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| |  DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
| I can get 14 mics in a 6 MHz channel, if I use $600 worth of cavity filters. Mel Brooks at the Kennedy Center Honors used 36 microphones at the same time. Luckily the Kennedy Center has lots of shielding.
The venues that want to stay in business will harden against UHF TV ingress. Both the Nokia Theater and the Staples Center are very quiet inside. If either installs any White Space Devices they'll be shooting themselves in the foot. | |
| | | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right Most I've ever ran was 26 channels of wireless at a time for a musical that was being recorded so EVERY actor needed their own mic, and each channel was recorded separately. They were mostly rented units in several different TV channels, so frequency coordination wasn't a huge problem. It was when we had 700MHz to play in too...
I'm not worried about venues installing white space devices. I'm worried about some handheld battery-powered whitespace gizmo. The day those come out is the day our nightmares come true Dave... | |
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