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fatness
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join:2000-11-17
fishing

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Re: FCC & SamKnows

said by RedCaliSS:

give up my privacy? ehhh.. this is the internet age... we all gave that up the minute we got our own unique IP Address.
Perhaps you did. Others did not.
itch
join:2008-12-06
Louisville, KY

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I got this same email on Saturday. My white box should be at my house by Thursday.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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Hmm...I wonder if the OP ever got a box or a reply saying he was no longer being considered...blah...blah?

I have no communication from them since I did the further qualifying tests a month ago.

Well....maybe on Monday I will hear something. It would be rude if they don't let those who don't pass the further tests know that, but instead just keep them wondering. So, I hope I hear something one way or the other soon.

dmxrob
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join:2005-06-24
Saint Peters, MO
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said by RedCaliSS:

give up my privacy? ehhh.. this is the internet age... we all gave that up the minute we got our own unique IP Address..
yes i know all about proxy servers.... anon access methods but seriously...what good will that do?
been on the "net" before it was the net.. arpanet... BBS's.. hell my first pc was a brand new shiny Commie C=64
This is probably one of the best posts I've read about this subject.

Those of us who have been around since the days of 300 baud access know that illusions of privacy are just that -- illusions.

Do you think that everytime you use your debit card the bank/super market/gas station/credit card processor isn't storing that information to track you seven ways south of Sunday?

Do you think that everytime you make a phone call that isn't being logged and tracked in a database somewhere?

Do you think that everytime you visit a web page the Google Analytics, Bing for Webmasters, Alexa, web hosting provider, ISP, banner ad server and 100 different other entities aren't tracking that and analyzing every last bit of information?

Wal-mart didn't get to be Wal-Mart without analyzing and studying every shopping habit down to the size of detergent they bought on Sunday's after a football game.

So keep dreaming those dreams, and telling yourself that you have them "fooled" -- the only person you are fooling is yourself.

DocDrew
How can I help?
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join:2009-01-28
SoCal

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I wonder what happens if the SamKnows router "disappears"....

It's a Netgear WNR3500L, a Gigabit ethernet ports and USB.

It'll run TomatoUSB w/ VPN nicely.

John K
@conquesthousing.com

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quote:
Do you think that everytime you visit a web page the Google Analytics, Bing for Webmasters, Alexa, web hosting provider, ISP, banner ad server and 100 different other entities aren't tracking that and analyzing every last bit of information?

Tracking information in aggregate form and tracking it in dossier form are two different things, sir.

Google analytics may know that "someone" visited a webpage. However, matching up a visit with an IP address and -then- making the effort to match the ip address up with an -actual name- is a whole different kettle of fish. Google likely does not care if John K visits a website so much as they are interested in the fact that "someone" visited the site.

I'm not saying it's impossible to link information gathered in the aggregate to individuals, only that, for most purposes, advertisers and webmasters are going to be interested in you (and your online habits) as an IP address, not you as a individual person ("John K"). There's a difference.

I don't need to know who someone is, exactly, in order to try to take advantage of their surfing habits and what they like.
quote:
Wal-mart didn't get to be Wal-Mart without analyzing and studying every shopping habit down to the size of detergent they bought on Sunday's after a football game.

I agree. However, if I pay cash for something (and avoid using a "club card" for the purchase) all that a store like Wal-Mart knows is that "someone" bought detergent on Sunday.
quote:
So keep dreaming those dreams, and telling yourself that you have them "fooled" -- the only person you are fooling is yourself.

It's entirely possible to fool "them;" it is all a matter of how hard you are willing to work at it.

The more convenience you desire, and the quicker to want to obtain something, the greater the chance you're going to be compromising your privacy as part of the exchange.

I agree that folks who think that advertisers and webmasters don't keep an eye on what they're doing as consumers are kidding themselves. However, I also feel that people who believe that everything they do, everywhere, is not only tracked, but matched up with them -as an individual- (i.e. a dossier) are overthinking things a bit.

Granted, there's currently a move afoot to more or less banish anonymity on the InterTubes, (the CEO of Google made some rather disturbing remarks recently to this effect*) so if such believers are wrong as of Q4 2010, they might not be wrong for very much longer.

*"We can predict where you are going to go Tuesday morning."

"Show us 14 photos of yourself and we can identify who you are. You think you don't have 14 photos of yourself on the internet? You've got Facebook photos!"

"The only way to manage this is true transparency and no anonymity. In a world of asynchronous threats, it is too dangerous for there not to be some way to identify you. We need a name service for people. Governments will demand it."

All of the above are quotes from Eric Schmidt, Google's CEO
mleland
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Westwood, CA

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Well according to UPS my box is waiting for me at home.

RXDOC
You want what?
MVM
join:2002-03-13
Pawtucket, RI

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My box is installed and running.
RXDOC

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They have been very responsive to e-mails I sent to them asking questions (prior to being selected and prior to installing my box). The longest wait I had is about 18 hours for a response.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

said by RXDOC:

They have been very responsive to e-mails I sent to them asking questions (prior to being selected and prior to installing my box). The longest wait I had is about 18 hours for a response.
Hmmm...I sent one email after I got the first email last month asking if I was still interested and saying that soon there would be another email with a link for me to do further testing. I got no response so I haven't tried to send any more emails.

I am quite puzzled because it is very rude to welcome me to the testing and then never let me know that somehow I didn't qualify after doing the speed test and giving my address, etc. I'll send another email of inquiry. Thanks. (Every day I check that email thinking I will have some kind of reply even if it is one telling me I was rejected. I have a stable connection so that would be no reason for rejection and they need some testers in Hawaii and I have Road Runner which they certainly must be testing).

joako
Premium Member
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null

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said by DocDrew:

I wonder what happens if the SamKnows router "disappears"....

It's a Netgear WNR3500L, a Gigabit ethernet ports and USB.

It'll run TomatoUSB w/ VPN nicely.
Thanks for the info.

I am going to claim that I didn't get at least the first router they ship to me. Is there any criteria one should use to increase the chances of getting accepted?
l_parker
join:2004-10-30
Destin, FL

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White box wireless router has been shipped, should be here in a few days.
l_parker

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And now (drumroll please), you can pay to look at ANYBODY'S entire life. There is a company advertising on TV to provide complete background checks on anybody. No longer do you have to be a tech geek or go to a web based service, just pick up your phone and call!

John K
@conquesthousing.com

John K

Anon

quote:
And now (drumroll please), you can pay to look at ANYBODY'S entire life. There is a company advertising on TV to provide complete background checks on anybody.

Hmmmmm. You've got me wondering just how thorough a background check these folks are offering.

Arrest records are kept on a federal level. Accessing the NCIC is pretty straightforward and can be done by just about anyone. Any arrests you have under your belt are more or less a matter of public record.

However, doing the -whole- shebang (NCIC search -and- chat with former employers, current neighbors, and so forth) to form a complete picture of just what kind of person someone is is fairly expensive and time-consuming. Do the guys on TV give a price for the service they're offering?

Something tells me that a company advertising on TV is likely offering only a simple criminal background check and could be using hype and a cleverly-worded advertisement to make it sound like it's a much more revealing search than it actually is. However, I have to be honest here and admit that I have never seen this ad myself, so maybe someone else can flesh things out a bit more to give us a better idea of what exactly it is they are offering.

A -thorough- background check comes with a pretty hefty price tag. It's not something you can attain for $39.95 (operators are standing by!). However, any cupcake with a credit card can check on someone via the NCIC for about that without needing to turn on their TV to do it.

A criminal background check is not going to uncover the fact that you can't get to sleep unless you're in your Spider Man Underoos: it's only going to uncover arrests and convictions. Only interviewing ex-employers and neighbors is going to uncover that sort of thing and I'm skeptical that most people who are inclined to respond to such a commercial are going to be willing to foot the kind of bill they'd be faced with to uncover that level of detail.

Of course, the cost of gathering information gets lower and lower all the time. I'm just saying I'm skeptical about what these guys are offering, that's all. TV advertisements are usually long on the sizzle and short on the steak and I'd be very suprised if these guys were an exception.
jonny4
join:2008-01-12
Cumming, GA

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I was accepted into this program but it was when I at&t 6mb dsl. At that time I was not getting dsl and the "bandwidth" had dropped significantly over the past 2 years. I finally got tired of it and switched to 8mb charter cable about a month and a half ago, I get on average 20mb speeds with a docsis 2.0 modem. I was sent a box last week and I tried to tell them all my stats have changed but they said good they still wanted to do the study. When I did this I had an issue and did not care if they saw my usage. Now I am worried about what they are actually testing. I got my box in today, is it possible to use it inline with my current router or anything like that? Example modem->my router->their router. This looks exactly like a sealed Netgear router, I am not sure how they are monitoring it.
Daemon
Premium Member
join:2003-06-29
Washington, DC

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I got my box in the mail today too. Nothing on the firmware configuration page to indicate that anything other than the stock netgear firmware is running, which is a little sneaky on their part.

Has anyone been able to decompile or dump the stock firmware on one of these devices? If so, it should be trivial to determine how much the device is actually monitoring connections.

Initially, I had planned to put the device into the DMZ off of the router I currently use, but, annoyingly, the stock firmware doesn't provide any sort of bridge mode, so one ends up on a separate NAT'ed subnet on the LAN side of the router no matter what. That made it annoying to configure or monitor, so I ended up putting it where the FCC requested I locate it-- just downstream of the modem. I turned my previous router into bridge mode any everything appears to be working just fine.

My downstream/previous router is an Apple Airport Extreme that does simultaneous dual band, but not QoS. The Netgear only works on 2.4GHz, though it does do MIMO, and includes QoS. By daisychaining them as such, I now have simultaneous dual band and QoS on one subnet, which is kinda nice.

So far, the FCC has not notified me how frequently the router will run the custom subroutine, to which servers it will communicate, for how long the program will run, and at what point I will have to return the router. Someone should set one of these things up behind a packet logger, because I'd like to see when/where they connect.

McSummation
Mmmm, Zeebas Are Tastee.
Premium Member
join:2003-08-13
Fort Worth, TX

McSummation

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Is the Ethernet (LAN) side of the snooper 10/100/Gigabit or just 10/100?
Daemon
Premium Member
join:2003-06-29
Washington, DC

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As far as I can tell, it's gigabit on both sides, WAN and LAN

tmpchaos
Requiescat in pace
Numquam oblitus
join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ

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Click for full size
It connects about once an hour, but doesn't run all tests every hour (near as I can see). It has been pretty transparent. Once you've been on a while, you'll gain access to the stats online, which can give a lot of info. This is a partial screenshot of the overview screen- you are able to refine (and download CSV data for) down to specific date ranges on each test.
Can you tell when the Docsis 3 modem was installed?
djoropallo
join:2003-10-20
Maple Shade, NJ

djoropallo

Member

I got my box on Friday and hooked it up on Saturday. It is a lot faster than my WRT-54G, but today it started having connection issues. First the wireless dropped a few times then it stopped communicating with my cable modem, I had to reset them. I fired off an email to Samknows to see if there is a fix. I can't upgrade the firmware, somehow it is locked. 5 years and my Linksys never had an issue, hope this isn't a sign of things to come.
Daemon
Premium Member
join:2003-06-29
Washington, DC

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I have found the samknows box to be a little... consumer grade... compared to the Apple Airport routers I am otherwise running.

Aside from the lack of a bridge mode, computers wirelessly connected have trouble accessing services on wired computers on the same network and subnet, though it depends on which 2 computers exactly one chooses. Between other computers it will work, but VERY slowly (6 megabit or less). It reminds me of the hiccups I used to have with the linksys and belkin gear I used before I became a mac fan(boy).

I'm wishing they had made two different white boxes: one a full-featured router for simple one-router networks and technophobes, and the other just a tiny little dumb client that just runs the tests now and again and would be much cheaper to build and less interfering on more complicated network topologies like my own.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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Well blow me away! I FINALLY received a letter just now from SamKnows saying they now have all the"relevant ISP details" and welcomed me to the testing and asked that I confirm my desire to participate. I followed the link and confirmed and was informed the router will be mailed out within 7-10 days.

I thought for sure after I did the qualifying tests back in the middle of October and then never heard a word from them (until just now) that I was rejected for some reason. I can't believe it took two months to get my relevant ISP details. Geez....

The confirmation required my phone number. It said they need it to "validate my service tier". So, I can expect a call probably when I am asleep (due to time differences)? I bet they can't reach me as I have no voice mail or answering machine and I turn the ringer on the phone off when I am sleeping so if they don't pay attention to the time difference they will call when I am sleeping. I don't see why they can't ask Oceanic what my service tier is. I guess I should send an email to the address they provided me and let them know what hours to call me that would be best.

I didn't realize until I read the Installation Requirements a few minutes ago that I would have to remove my Linksy router. I thought I would be ADDING the Netgear so I had two routers. I hope this Netgear one will work ok. I recall problems with XP when I set up the Linksy in 2003. I won't have problems with my virtual machines will I with this Netgear router?

Edit: I didn't know anything about various Netgear routers so I read about this one. It sounds really nice!

former qwest
@qwest.net

former qwest

Anon

i received my email today as well. as i only have naked DSL, that's the "phone number" they received the the reply. good luck to us.
siptrunker
join:2009-07-27
Atlanta, GA

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said by Daemon:

I got my box in the mail today too. Nothing on the firmware configuration page to indicate that anything other than the stock netgear firmware is running, which is a little sneaky on their part.

Just set up last night and checked firmware (V1.2.2.26_33.0.28SK) - guessing the SK is SamKnows. Support (from the UK) was excellent but were unable to set me up with bridging - have to portforward everything or DMZ the Airport my Mac network needs.

I've worked for AT&T, Internap, and Knology (cable ISP). Skip the tinfoil - they don't even need warrants to get all your logs. There is no expectation of privacy on the net unless you are going waaay out of your way (TOR).

-Christopher

tmpchaos
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join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ

tmpchaos

Numquam oblitus

I did notice that it's custom firmware (naturally)- and despite there being later firmware (WNR3500L Firmware Version 1.2.2.30), the router doesn't show the later firmware on check.

timcuth
Braves Fan
Premium Member
join:2000-09-18
Pelham, AL

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Ok, I just got my invitation to complete my acceptance and receive the special router. I am trying to decide whether to proceed.

Tim
djoropallo
join:2003-10-20
Maple Shade, NJ

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said by tmpchaos:

I did notice that it's custom firmware (naturally)- and despite there being later firmware (WNR3500L Firmware Version 1.2.2.30), the router doesn't show the later firmware on check.

I even downloaded the newer firmware but it fails to install, was thinking of changing the end of the file name to sk but I don't want to brick it yet.
Daemon
Premium Member
join:2003-06-29
Washington, DC

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It's not the snooping I am afraid of, it's that a second-hand or third-hand owner/user of the router would not have any obvious knowledge the router was performing checks on his/her connection. I feel that a special heading/menu off of the left tree explaining how this router is special would be appropriate. Two letters at the end of a firmware is not a real clue, in my opinion.

I am not sure what the FCC is going to do with all of these routers when the tests are complete. Government regulations may require them to take them back and sell them as surplus (we can't get rid of ANYTHING at the state-sponsored university where I work except via surplus requisition), but it would make more sense to just let the users keep them.
bgoodbody
Bill G
join:2002-05-08
North Truro, MA

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email community@samknows.com and they will send link to latest somknows software.
bgoodbody

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It looks like SamKnows uses about 3 GB of bandwidth a day.

Is this True?