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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

Bill 60 In Québec

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download2009C51F.PDF 89,800 bytes
Loie 60 (2009-51 Français)
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download2009C51A.PDF 84,358 bytes
Bill 60 (2009-51 Anglish)
There have been many mentions of Bill 60 which affects contracts in Québec.

Figured I would dig it up to see what it EXACTLY means.

I found it at:

Français:
60- Loi modifiant la Loi sur la protection du consommateur et d'autres dispositions législatives

»www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/travaux-parl···9-1.html

or for Englophones:
An Act to amend the Consumer Protection Act and other legislative provisions

»www.assnat.qc.ca/en/travaux-parl···9-1.html

It is number "60":


jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

The item people are most familiar with:

quote:
“214.6. The consumer may, at any time and at the consumer’s discretion, cancel the contract by sending a notice to the merchant. The cancellation takes effect by operation of law on the sending of the notice or the date specified in the notice.

The total of the charges the merchant may then claim from the consumer, other than the price of the services provided to the consumer calculated at the rate provided in the contract, constitutes the contract cancellation indemnity. For the purposes of this paragraph, a service contract or a contract for the lease of goods concluded on the making of or in consideration of the service contract forms a whole with that contract.

“214.7. If the consumer unilaterally cancels a fixed-term contract in consideration of which one or more economic inducements were given to him by the merchant, the cancellation indemnity may not exceed the value of the economic inducements determined by regulation that were given to him. The indemnity decreases as prescribed by regulation.
When no economic inducement determined by regulation was given to the consumer, the maximum indemnity the merchant may charge is the lesser of $50 and an amount representing not more than 10% of the price of the services provided for in the contract that were not supplied.

Bell may have to review its hidden modem rental charges. And Air Canada will have to stop advertising in Québec since its advertised prices have no relationship with the total amount to be paid when you buy a ticket

quote:
12. Section 224 of the Act is amended by adding the following paragraph:
“For the purposes of subparagraph c of the first paragraph, the price advertised must include the total amount the consumer must pay for the goods or services. However, the price advertised need not include the Quebec sales tax or the Goods and Services Tax. More emphasis must be put on the price advertised than on the amounts of which the price is made up.”

What I find interesting is that the french version mentions requirement to inform the customer on paper, whilst the english translation uses "in writing". In the age of emails, especially for the ISP business, this distinction may be quite important. My guess is tht an ISP in Québec could claim he used the english translation of the law. (or is the french o the only "official" text, with the english provided as convenience and constitutional obligation ?)

BTW, they have recognised that travel agents may now be virtual entities without a store where customers can physically go to.

kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

1 edit

said by jfmezei:

The item people are most familiar with:

quote:
“214.6. The consumer may, at any time and at the consumer’s discretion, cancel the contract by sending a notice to the merchant. The cancellation takes effect by operation of law on the sending of the notice or the date specified in the notice.

The total of the charges the merchant may then claim from the consumer, other than the price of the services provided to the consumer calculated at the rate provided in the contract, constitutes the contract cancellation indemnity. For the purposes of this paragraph, a service contract or a contract for the lease of goods concluded on the making of or in consideration of the service contract forms a whole with that contract.

“214.7. If the consumer unilaterally cancels a fixed-term contract in consideration of which one or more economic inducements were given to him by the merchant, the cancellation indemnity may not exceed the value of the economic inducements determined by regulation that were given to him. The indemnity decreases as prescribed by regulation.
When no economic inducement determined by regulation was given to the consumer, the maximum indemnity the merchant may charge is the lesser of $50 and an amount representing not more than 10% of the price of the services provided for in the contract that were not supplied.

Bell may have to review its hidden modem rental charges. And Air Canada will have to stop advertising in Québec since its advertised prices have no relationship with the total amount to be paid when you buy a ticket

quote:
12. Section 224 of the Act is amended by adding the following paragraph:
“For the purposes of subparagraph c of the first paragraph, the price advertised must include the total amount the consumer must pay for the goods or services. However, the price advertised need not include the Quebec sales tax or the Goods and Services Tax. More emphasis must be put on the price advertised than on the amounts of which the price is made up.”

What I find interesting is that the french version mentions requirement to inform the customer on paper, whilst the english translation uses "in writing". In the age of emails, especially for the ISP business, this distinction may be quite important. My guess is tht an ISP in Québec could claim he used the english translation of the law. (or is the french o the only "official" text, with the english provided as convenience and constitutional obligation ?)

BTW, they have recognised that travel agents may now be virtual entities without a store where customers can physically go to.
I don't think Bell has hidden fees for modems anymore... for new customers that is.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

I wonder if Bill 60 in Quebec will end up changing Bell Canada's business practices in Ontario too, or whether it will result in bell's quebec offering becoming more and more different than its ontario offerings.

And it becomes harder for Bell (and others) to have national ad campaigns unless they harmonise their national plans with those of Québec.



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

My understanding was that airlines are exempt from bill 60.
After all, we're getting our passengers bill of rights, right?
*Crickets start*



ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
reply to jfmezei

said by jfmezei:

(or is the french o the only "official" text, with the english provided as convenience and constitutional obligation ?)
As far as I know, French is the only official language when it comes to legislation here. English is just a courtesy translation that they're obligated to provide due to the BNA Act.

As for Bell, I do not think they will have a problem with making a whole different offering in Quebec and keep 'National' campaigns that do not include Quebec. The extra step to do something different in Quebec might cost extra, but I doubt they'll mind as their idea of competition (primarily against Videotron) seems to be to increase prices and spend the extra money on publicity. I noticed that they went absolutely CRAZY with ads this week. Videotron's infinite talking adds are like 3-4 per each wagon in the metro, and Bell's Fibe is on every second bus, plus I already saw 4 different pick up trucks with the huge billboard behind of Fibe just this morning alone...(But they might have the same in TO right now.)

Anyhow, hiding fees is more attracting, so I doubt they'll stop doing it unless every other province creates a similar law. And Air Canada will probably just not advertise prices in Quebec at all and go with the generic "Best prices in Canada' ads instead.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to jfmezei

When looking at the R&V Bell filed last night about HSPA+ and deferal account,they showed a sample of a new offering if CRTC lets them build using wireless.It shows a 1 time fee in Q for modem rental



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to jfmezei

»www.mccarthy.ca/article_detail.aspx?id=4884
Bill specifics.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to jfmezei

said by jfmezei:

I wonder if Bill 60 in Quebec will end up changing Bell Canada's business practices in Ontario too, or whether it will result in bell's quebec offering becoming more and more different than its ontario offerings.

And it becomes harder for Bell (and others) to have national ad campaigns unless they harmonise their national plans with those of Québec.
Sure, they'll harmonize, they'll raise the rates across the board to match the increased costs in Quebec.
--
Jake: "Four fried chickens, and a coke" Elwood: "And some dry white toast, pleas


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to jfmezei

I read through the entire bill a while back. It was not fun. I wish that the bill had gone a lot further than it did, but beggars can't be choosers.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



rex0

join:2002-02-10
reply to jfmezei

Both the French and English versions of the legislation are equally official and carry equal force.

Bell already offers different prices on the same thing or slightly different packages at the same price; it doesn't really change anything other then ads.



Chuck Carlso

@prgmr.com
reply to jfmezei

We always pay less in Quebec than the people who live in Ontario so in essence we've never had it so good.



hmmmmm

@mc.videotron.ca

said by Chuck Carlso :

We always pay less in Quebec than the people who live in Ontario so in essence we've never had it so good.
I wouldn't say that.

CR123

join:2006-11-04
Vancouver, BC
reply to jfmezei

said by jfmezei:

And it becomes harder for Bell (and others) to have national ad campaigns unless they harmonise their national plans with those of Québec.
Bell doesn't really have national advertising campaigns, though, that mention prices...
--
- The content of this post is my opinion, and does not reflect the opinions of my employer. -


Luring

@mc.videotron.ca

said by CR123:

said by jfmezei:

And it becomes harder for Bell (and others) to have national ad campaigns unless they harmonise their national plans with those of Québec.
Bell doesn't really have national advertising campaigns, though, that mention prices...
What bell does is target regions, sends out reps (like they did in T/O), then sends out unsolicitated junk mail to people saying they can have fibe-25 for 30$.

Then when the sucker calls, they find out it's not available, and then try to reel the sucker in to buying regular "up to" 5-6 meg internet for 60$.

See:
»[Internet] Bell ...

Now if anyone here thinks Bell has no f'n clue what geographic region they have fibe-25 and thus iptv in and this is all a misunderstanding, I will call you insane.

This is no different than their commercials on TV claiming how fast they are, targeting the viewer, luring the viewer to buy into it, selling them fibe-7, then giving them 1.5-meg internet.

Do you honestly think they didn't know which area's have fibe-7?

It's not just the fact that they lure people with fraudulent pricing for services that don't even exist in their targeted area, it's also the fact that bell is pretending they don't know which geographic area's they have fibe-x.

Luring.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to jfmezei

I got the 25Mbps flyer in the mail. Bell's site says I don't qualify for Fibe at all.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

said by Guspaz:

I got the 25Mbps flyer in the mail. Bell's site says I don't qualify for Fibe at all.
For a downtown appartment building, wouldn't Bell need to put a DSLAM in each building ? If the Building owner is not amenable to such an installation, then it would be a no-go.

Or does Bell have sufficient space in under-street bunkers to put its DSLAMs there to feed the optical copper to your building ?

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by jfmezei:

For a downtown appartment building, wouldn't Bell need to put a DSLAM in each building ?
It does not need to be _in_ the building, it can be curb-side, pole-mounted, building-mounted or any other mounting option that might be available in the area. Indoors is only one of many options.

said by jfmezei:

If the Building owner is not amenable to such an installation, then it would be a no-go.
The owner cannot do a darn thing about easements so denying access to the utility room so Bell can deploy a hidden DSLAM means he risks getting a mini-lawn-fridge instead.

As for underground, that would require submersible cabinets which would be problematic... I have a hard time imagining Bell wanting to deal with getting 4' of snow or 2" of ice off the sidewalk to access their hardware so they can connect a new subscriber during winter with the possibility of parked cars, garbage/recycling bins, etc. further hindering access. With outdoors remotes, ice on remotes is a non-issue since they produce enough heat to de-ice themselves under most circumstances

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

I don't think Bell would put DSLAMs on sidewalks on René Lévesque or Ste-Catherine in the middle of downtown. Perhaps on side streets where there may be a strip of lawn between the sidewalk and the buildings, but not on the major arteries.



shrug

@mc.videotron.ca

said by jfmezei:

I don't think Bell would put DSLAMs on sidewalks on René Lévesque or Ste-Catherine in the middle of downtown.
They would if they are after the insurance money after every weekend.


Rickkins

join:2004-04-05
Mtl, Canada
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to ekster

said by ekster:

As far as I know, French is the only official language when it comes to legislation here. English is just a courtesy translation that they're obligated to provide due to the BNA Act.
BNA act no longer exists since Trudeau repatriated our constitution...