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aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

[RANT] Forums that make you register/log-in to search

If a forum that requires users to register to post is one thing, but a forum that require you to register/log-in to able to search - What is wrong with these people?

#1 I went to The official message board for Mythbusters

#2 I tried to search/find for Internet to help me find all of the myths from the net/about the net, but it redirected me to a register/log-in page.
--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.


OHN

join:2003-02-05
Appleton, WI
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Yeah that sucks. You may want to try snopes.com instead BTW.



dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to aefstoggaflm

I HATE THAT!
some sites don't even let you view without hoop-jumping.


moes

join:2009-11-15
Cedar City, UT
Reviews:
·Revol Wireless
·Optimum Online
reply to aefstoggaflm

Alot of them come out of the box like this and the option is never changed, If the option is on, I like most of the forum admins turn it off and add a robots.txt to stop Google from prying at parts of the forum it should not be and plus the Russian spambots love searching for find people to send private messages too.



Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20

2 recommendations

reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:

If a forum that requires users to register to post is one thing, but a forum that require you to register/log-in to able to search - What is wrong with these people?

How about -- NOTHING.

It's their website. You want to use it? Then register and log in.

You don't want to register? Then you don't get to search the site.

Sounds pretty simple to me.
--
The farther one travels, the less one knows.


MineCoast
Premium
join:2004-10-06
127.0.0.1

said by Technogeez:

said by aefstoggaflm:

If a forum that requires users to register to post is one thing, but a forum that require you to register/log-in to able to search - What is wrong with these people?

How about -- NOTHING.

It's their website. You want to use it? Then register and log in.

You don't want to register? Then you don't get to search the site.

Sounds pretty simple to me.
^ What he said!


joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:6
reply to aefstoggaflm

There used to be a nice site called BugMeNot.com... now they block most sites.
--
PRescott7-2097



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable
reply to aefstoggaflm

Click for full size
Search results
Following the link you supplied
»community.discovery.com/eve/foru···91937776
I was able to to do a search for "Internet" without being required to register.
There is no cookie that is being recognized, can anyone else replicate the search function without being logged in?


aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL

said by Snowy:

Following the link you supplied
»community.discovery.com/eve/foru···91937776
I was able to to do a search for "Internet" without being required to register.
There is no cookie that is being recognized, can anyone else replicate the search function without being logged in?
Ok, please try this.

#1 Go that site.

#2 Click on Find.

#3 Type in the keyword, Internet and press Go

Please tell me if I am lossing my mind OR not: You must register/log-in to search the message board.

Thanks.
--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6

Aah, I used the search function to search.
The "find" function does bring me to a login page.
bugmenot.com does have some logins which I haven't tried if you're interested.



fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14

1 recommendation

said by Snowy:

Aah, I used the search function to search.
The "find" function does bring me to a login page.
If you'll notice, the bottom of the login page contains a "sitesearch" box. Entering "Internet" there brings these results without being logged in: »dsc.discovery.com/search/results···h=search
--
I don't have a problem!

jfd15

join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA
reply to Technogeez

said by Technogeez:

How about -- NOTHING.

It's their website. You want to use it? Then register and log in.

You don't want to register? Then you don't get to search the site.

Sounds pretty simple to me.
yeah, that is the truth....


silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01
reply to joako

said by joako:

There used to be a nice site called BugMeNot.com... now they block most sites.
Most are not with exception of dslreports as i guess they asked them to. I am thinking of starting similar site but deny any request to block any site.


fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14
reply to Technogeez

said by Technogeez:

You don't want to register? Then you don't get to search the site
That's incorrect. You can search the site without logging in. I just did.
--
I don't have a problem!


La Luna
RIP Lisa
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3

That was posted before it was made clear that the OP didn't in fact use the SEARCH function of the site to do his, er, SEARCH.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 recommendation

reply to aefstoggaflm

Don't forget that, even if a site is password protected, Google is often given a free waiver on this; this may be true for some other search engines, also. Googling with internet site:mythbusters.com probably would have led you where you wanted to go. Even on sites with a decent search function, I often also use Google, because it finds and presents things in a different way.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

I forgot to add that Google usually caches stuff, too, so even if the link they give you is still blocked, the cache can be very informative. And sometimes just clicking on the link via Google (instead of accessing it directly) gives you a free pass, too. I do this all of the time with articles in the Wall Street Journal, and it almost always works.

Case in point: go to a current "pay" article on the front page of the WSJ (or use an external link) and you'll get this, which just gives a couple of paragraphs of teaser:

»online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142···llection

Google the headline for that article ("Indian Firm in Early Talks to Buy MGM") and you'll get this, which shows you the whole thing. Note the different "mod" parm, but simply tweaking the URL doesn't work; go have to do a Google search:

»online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142···news_wsj

A year or two ago, when Rupert Murdoch was throwing a hissy fit about how Google and others "steal" from him so he was threatening to block access, it was pointed out that this method still worked and that he was making no apparent attempt to block it. Apparently he was (correctly) afraid to all-out block Google, but I believe he and Google eventually came to some accommodation, where maybe Google pays him a fee for accessing his sites from theirs.



Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20
reply to fatness

said by fatness:

said by Technogeez:

You don't want to register? Then you don't get to search the site
That's incorrect. You can search the site without logging in. I just did.
I believe I'm discussing a basic principle here... It applies to all sites that request logging in before allowing you full access.

Again, if you don't play by the owner's rules, you don't get to play full up. And why does anyone have a problem with that?
--
The farther one travels, the less one knows.


Maccawolf
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Hillsdale, NJ
reply to aefstoggaflm

I've had that happen to me in the past as well, and it P*SSES me off......

Even not searching for something on the site, just reading the forums and such.
This site is the ONLY one I sign into every time I read. Most of the others, I prefer to remain anonymous unless I want to post. Why should I have to register to READ?
--
Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to aefstoggaflm

My pet peeve is specialized forums where certain trades and professions hang out, and if you as an outsider come in and ask some basic questions, you get hit with "We won't talk to just anybody in here because we spent many years and mucho dollars becoming "professionals", and we don't just share this info for free" - blah blah, blah blah. But then if they ask basic questions about other subjects (computers or whatever), either in their own forums or elsewhere, they expect free and immediate answers to be forthcoming.

Karma's a real b_tch, though, because as cold and unkind as they are to outsiders, they are often even worse to each other. It's always hilarious to watch so-called "professional" discussions devolve into flame wars, with them calling each other "crooked hacks" in various ways and for various reasons - sometimes with a certain amount of restrained civility, but usually not! The more "respectable" the profession the funnier it is, too.



fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14

1 edit
reply to Technogeez

said by Technogeez:

I believe I'm discussing a basic principle here... It applies to all sites that request logging in before allowing you full access.

Again, if you don't play by the owner's rules, you don't get to play full up. And why does anyone have a problem with that?
Your basic principle doesn't apply to the Mythbusters site in the opening post of this topic.
--
I don't have a problem!


PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to aefstoggaflm

As someone else mentioned, the option for guests to search is usually off by default.

Mostly because searches are a vector of attacking for a DDOS'ing a forum as searches are one of the more intense operations it performs.

And secondly, most forums are smaller and run on shared or vps hosting and if your going to use the resources, they would prefer you to be a member.

I'm not saying its right wrong or otherwise but that is the basic rational behind it.
--
~ Insert a Funny Sig Here ~



dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to scross

said by scross:

My pet peeve is specialized forums where certain trades and professions hang out, and if you as an outsider come in and ask some basic questions, you get hit with "We won't talk to just anybody in here because we spent many years and mucho dollars becoming "professionals", and we don't just share this info for free" - blah blah, blah blah.
Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
--
The shortest distance between 2 points adds 1.5 stars to T. want $25? solve »coord.info/GC20A37 for me

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by dvd536:

Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
Well, Linux culture can have its own issues, that's true, as I've found to my chagrin. And people really do need to RTFM more, but that's just as true of car owners, etc. as it is of Linux users.

I was specifically referring to the trades (HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc), who are not only intolerant of outsiders but also can be extremely cruel to each other. Apparently if another tradesman doesn't do things exactly like you do then he's nothing more than a "stupid hack who is going to kill people and needs to have his licensed pulled", and so on. Or the unkindest cut of all - that the other guy is "unprofessional". Sometimes there's a grain of truth to the arguments, but most often it's just a refusal to acknowledge that there is typically more than one legitimate, safe, code-compliant way to do things. No to mention the fact that code changes regularly and always varies a bit from region to region.

Sometimes when I see an outsider being stonewalled, to get things rolling I will jump in with a "I'm not a _____, but ..." answer, which may not be wholly correct but which I consider to be reasonable, and then watch the pros jump in to lambast me and in the process answer the very question they were refusing to answer to begin with. And it's all the more hilarious if they start going after each other's throats in the process. Baiting jerks is fun!



To be fair, there are a few pros out there who will answer questions openly and patiently. These appear to be the exception, though, not the rule.

neonturbo

join:2009-02-27
Lansing, MI

said by scross:

I was specifically referring to the trades (HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc), who are not only intolerant of outsiders but also can be extremely cruel to each other. Apparently if another tradesman doesn't do things exactly like you do then he's nothing more than a "stupid hack who is going to kill people and needs to have his licensed pulled", and so on. Or the unkindest cut of all - that the other guy is "unprofessional". Sometimes there's a grain of truth to the arguments, but most often it's just a refusal to acknowledge that there is typically more than one legitimate, safe, code-compliant way to do things. No to mention the fact that code changes regularly and always varies a bit from region to region.

To be fair, there are a few pros out there who will answer questions openly and patiently. These appear to be the exception, though, not the rule.
Sounds like you have been hanging out on hvac-talk.com!

Here is an example of what gets me. I have been a professional auto mechanic for 20+ years. That involves working with electricity, refrigerant, mechanical repair, and more. Places like that think I will blow up the whole neighborhood and kill all the "childrens" by working on my furnace or A/C. I need special training, licenses, on the job training, and more to be as "good" as they are.

These same guys work on their own car brakes all the time and that is just fine. They can slap a $10 pair of brake pads on the car and all is good. Those auto mechanic thieves are all out to rip them off. Anyone can fix a car, after all.

Back to the original topic, it is annoying to have to register to search. I have joined hundreds of websites over the years to find info about something I was doing, or having problems with at the time. That is how I found this site, I was having DSL problems. It was friendly and accessible here so I stayed. Very little of the RFTM type thing here. Over the years I have found way too many sites were so badly run or just a bunch of 14 year olds, so I found what I wanted and left.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by neonturbo:

Sounds like you have been hanging out on hvac-talk.com!
Well, I hang out on a lot of sites, bouncing around quite a bit, but you're right - the HVAC folks are probably the worst! Not only I have not been able to find HVAC techs locally who I consider to be both honest and competent (it's hard enough to find one or the other, much less both), but of all the trades these guys seem to be the most willing to tell bald-faced lies directly to your face. Unfortunately I've found that this spills over to automotive A/C work, too.

One of the issues with this particular trade is that they are in fact trying to tighten up their act, so right now you have a bunch of formally-educated but inexperienced "noobs" fighting it out with "old, worn-out hacks" who learned their skills on the job but who do have the benefit of many years of experience in the field. Each group thinks the other is full of it, and watching them battle it out is fun, fun, fun! I find watching physicists (experimental vs. theoretical) go at each other on the internet is fun, too, but sometimes their little dramas can take years to play out.

Back to the Google thing that I mentioned earlier: yesterday I ran into a situation where there was a news article that I wanted to read but the web site was password protected. The Google back-door wouldn't let me in either, but it did point to a half-dozen other sites which had the same article or at least the same details, so it didn't take two seconds for me to actually get to it. Google will also bring up fly-by-night sites which "borrow" liberally from other, more legitimate sites (where the fly-by-night site is just trying to generate ad revenue on the cheap), so overall it's rare for me to not be able to get to the information that I want/need. As a matter of fact, that "borrowing" is probably why the legitimate sites decide to implement passwords to begin with, in order to try and prevent this. It doesn't always work, obviously.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to scross

said by scross:

said by dvd536:

Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
Well, Linux culture can have its own issues, that's true, as I've found to my chagrin. And people really do need to RTFM more,
I mean even if you pose your question in a way that lets them know you just didn't download this thingie that isn't 'doze', they still write you off as a noob. if i can demonstrate i can compile a kernel or tweak source to do what i want, i should at least get help but no, i'm a noob cuz i'm not in their little "clique".
--
The shortest distance between 2 points adds 1.5 stars to T. want $25? solve »coord.info/GC20A37 for me

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by dvd536:

said by scross:

said by dvd536:

Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
Well, Linux culture can have its own issues, that's true, as I've found to my chagrin. And people really do need to RTFM more,
I mean even if you pose your question in a way that lets them know you just didn't download this thingie that isn't 'doze', they still write you off as a noob. if i can demonstrate i can compile a kernel or tweak source to do what i want, i should at least get help but no, i'm a noob cuz i'm not in their little "clique".
Well, if it were me (and it might be me before too long - who knows) I might go and do a little research on something really esoteric and "bleeding edge" that hasn't been implemented in Linux yet, and then go on-line and talk about how I plan to code it and maybe hint around that I might need a little help doing so. And when they realize that they don't have a clue about what I'm proposing to do, I could either dazzle them with brilliance or baffle them with bullsh_t (your choice).

And then you, sir, would be a god among men!



Now, you might be challenged by the clique to go and actually do what it is you're proposing to do, but even then sometimes an "epic fail" can be almost as good as a "win", so just give it a go and see how it turns out!