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scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to dvd536

Member

to dvd536

Re: [RANT] Forums that make you register/log-in to search

said by dvd536:

Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
Well, Linux culture can have its own issues, that's true, as I've found to my chagrin. And people really do need to RTFM more, but that's just as true of car owners, etc. as it is of Linux users.

I was specifically referring to the trades (HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc), who are not only intolerant of outsiders but also can be extremely cruel to each other. Apparently if another tradesman doesn't do things exactly like you do then he's nothing more than a "stupid hack who is going to kill people and needs to have his licensed pulled", and so on. Or the unkindest cut of all - that the other guy is "unprofessional". Sometimes there's a grain of truth to the arguments, but most often it's just a refusal to acknowledge that there is typically more than one legitimate, safe, code-compliant way to do things. No to mention the fact that code changes regularly and always varies a bit from region to region.

Sometimes when I see an outsider being stonewalled, to get things rolling I will jump in with a "I'm not a _____, but ..." answer, which may not be wholly correct but which I consider to be reasonable, and then watch the pros jump in to lambast me and in the process answer the very question they were refusing to answer to begin with. And it's all the more hilarious if they start going after each other's throats in the process. Baiting jerks is fun!



To be fair, there are a few pros out there who will answer questions openly and patiently. These appear to be the exception, though, not the rule.
neonturbo
join:2009-02-27
Lansing, MI

neonturbo

Member

said by scross:

I was specifically referring to the trades (HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc), who are not only intolerant of outsiders but also can be extremely cruel to each other. Apparently if another tradesman doesn't do things exactly like you do then he's nothing more than a "stupid hack who is going to kill people and needs to have his licensed pulled", and so on. Or the unkindest cut of all - that the other guy is "unprofessional". Sometimes there's a grain of truth to the arguments, but most often it's just a refusal to acknowledge that there is typically more than one legitimate, safe, code-compliant way to do things. No to mention the fact that code changes regularly and always varies a bit from region to region.

To be fair, there are a few pros out there who will answer questions openly and patiently. These appear to be the exception, though, not the rule.
Sounds like you have been hanging out on hvac-talk.com!

Here is an example of what gets me. I have been a professional auto mechanic for 20+ years. That involves working with electricity, refrigerant, mechanical repair, and more. Places like that think I will blow up the whole neighborhood and kill all the "childrens" by working on my furnace or A/C. I need special training, licenses, on the job training, and more to be as "good" as they are.

These same guys work on their own car brakes all the time and that is just fine. They can slap a $10 pair of brake pads on the car and all is good. Those auto mechanic thieves are all out to rip them off. Anyone can fix a car, after all.

Back to the original topic, it is annoying to have to register to search. I have joined hundreds of websites over the years to find info about something I was doing, or having problems with at the time. That is how I found this site, I was having DSL problems. It was friendly and accessible here so I stayed. Very little of the RFTM type thing here. Over the years I have found way too many sites were so badly run or just a bunch of 14 year olds, so I found what I wanted and left.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross

Member

said by neonturbo:

Sounds like you have been hanging out on hvac-talk.com!
Well, I hang out on a lot of sites, bouncing around quite a bit, but you're right - the HVAC folks are probably the worst! Not only I have not been able to find HVAC techs locally who I consider to be both honest and competent (it's hard enough to find one or the other, much less both), but of all the trades these guys seem to be the most willing to tell bald-faced lies directly to your face. Unfortunately I've found that this spills over to automotive A/C work, too.

One of the issues with this particular trade is that they are in fact trying to tighten up their act, so right now you have a bunch of formally-educated but inexperienced "noobs" fighting it out with "old, worn-out hacks" who learned their skills on the job but who do have the benefit of many years of experience in the field. Each group thinks the other is full of it, and watching them battle it out is fun, fun, fun! I find watching physicists (experimental vs. theoretical) go at each other on the internet is fun, too, but sometimes their little dramas can take years to play out.

Back to the Google thing that I mentioned earlier: yesterday I ran into a situation where there was a news article that I wanted to read but the web site was password protected. The Google back-door wouldn't let me in either, but it did point to a half-dozen other sites which had the same article or at least the same details, so it didn't take two seconds for me to actually get to it. Google will also bring up fly-by-night sites which "borrow" liberally from other, more legitimate sites (where the fly-by-night site is just trying to generate ad revenue on the cheap), so overall it's rare for me to not be able to get to the information that I want/need. As a matter of fact, that "borrowing" is probably why the legitimate sites decide to implement passwords to begin with, in order to try and prevent this. It doesn't always work, obviously.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to scross

Premium Member

to scross
said by scross:
said by dvd536:

Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
Well, Linux culture can have its own issues, that's true, as I've found to my chagrin. And people really do need to RTFM more,
I mean even if you pose your question in a way that lets them know you just didn't download this thingie that isn't 'doze', they still write you off as a noob. if i can demonstrate i can compile a kernel or tweak source to do what i want, i should at least get help but no, i'm a noob cuz i'm not in their little "clique".
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross

Member

said by dvd536:

said by scross:
said by dvd536:

Sounds like #linux chatrooms on IRC where every answer is "RTFM Noob"
Well, Linux culture can have its own issues, that's true, as I've found to my chagrin. And people really do need to RTFM more,
I mean even if you pose your question in a way that lets them know you just didn't download this thingie that isn't 'doze', they still write you off as a noob. if i can demonstrate i can compile a kernel or tweak source to do what i want, i should at least get help but no, i'm a noob cuz i'm not in their little "clique".
Well, if it were me (and it might be me before too long - who knows) I might go and do a little research on something really esoteric and "bleeding edge" that hasn't been implemented in Linux yet, and then go on-line and talk about how I plan to code it and maybe hint around that I might need a little help doing so. And when they realize that they don't have a clue about what I'm proposing to do, I could either dazzle them with brilliance or baffle them with bullsh_t (your choice).

And then you, sir, would be a god among men!



Now, you might be challenged by the clique to go and actually do what it is you're proposing to do, but even then sometimes an "epic fail" can be almost as good as a "win", so just give it a go and see how it turns out!