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FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH

What's Wrong With These Stats?

Westell 7500 - A90-750018-07 - Modem/Router

Transreceiver Revision: A2pB020b3.d20h
Vendor ID Code: 4D54
Line Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Data Path: INTERLEAVED

Down / Up
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec): 3360 / 864
Margin (dB): 16.5 / 12.0
Line Attenuation (dB): 38.0 / 20.5
Transmit Power (dBm): 7.4 / 12.2


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
Welcome to BBR.

Stats look great. Decent attenuation and able to sync at correct rate for 3000/768 package. Might even squeak by with 7Mbps plan.

I assume you are experiencing some sort of problem with your DSL from the way you titled the post.

/tom

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH

1 edit
reply to FairpointV09
Thanks and yes. Webpages, downloads & everything internet related start in a pause before beginning. It's difficult to watch videos, surf webpages and play games. Everything is behind(latency). But ping times seem okay.
5 Computers in the house. They experience the same thing. We've done all the basics with modem resetting, line checking too. The modem also pauses before loading the 192.168.1.1 page up. Going from page to page on the modem is also very slow.

Some sources say my line signal? strength is not good enough.
Some sources say my modem needs to be replaced. But we've had the modem replaced before and there has been no difference.


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
Do a traceroute (tracert in Windows) to stable sites like this one and/or do the line quality test on the tools page. Latency should slowly increase with hop count and distance. Sudden unexplained jumps could indicate congestion at that or the previous hop.

The problem is something other then the physical DSL circuit. To give you an idea what to expect I've posted my tracert to this site. Might also want to run speed test wither here or Speedtest.net.

 
Tracing route to Broadbandreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    22 ms    23 ms    22 ms  10.20.12.1
  3    23 ms    23 ms    23 ms  static-64-222-165-50.man.east.myfairpoint.net [64.222.165.50]
  4    33 ms    32 ms    32 ms  POS5-0.GW1.NYC9.ALTER.NET [208.192.176.109]
  5    32 ms    32 ms    33 ms  0.so-1-0-1.XT1.NYC9.ALTER.NET [152.63.99.178]
  6   112 ms    32 ms    33 ms  0.so-1-0-1.XL3.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.213]
  7    32 ms    33 ms    32 ms  GigabitEthernet6-0-0.GW1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.20.49]
  8    33 ms    32 ms    78 ms  teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.60.14]
  9    33 ms    32 ms    33 ms  nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.248.145]
 10    33 ms    33 ms    33 ms  nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.247.19]
 11    34 ms    33 ms    33 ms  netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248.99.90]
 12    33 ms    33 ms    33 ms  0.e1-1.tbr1.ewr.nac.net [209.123.10.129]
 13    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  0.e1-4.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.122]
 14    38 ms    34 ms    64 ms  vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
 15    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
 
Trace complete.
 
/tom

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH

1 edit
reply to FairpointV09


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Both look fine. Try running them again when you are having problems.

/tom

jleefellows

join:2010-01-13
Franklin, NH

1 edit
reply to FairpointV09
The problem is "Always".

Our connection is smooth. It is solid. It never has a packet drop or connection problem. But it is behind.

It's like we receive the internet a moment later. Which would be fine for everything else. But it is horrible for when we play games. We literally play behind from the current time. Real-Time. Immediate. Instant.

Anywhere we move in games, any actions we do in games, they all don't exist yet for another moment. And because of this, other people we play with always beat us in games before they actually start to do anything on our screens.

---

Modern Warfare 2 is a popular game, I'm sure you may of heard of it. It's a First Person Shooter.
Now in these types of games, every little moment counts. And it makes it impossible for us to play with our current internet.

People kill us right before they begin to fire on our screens.
We can shoot people and miss if they were moving.
We can shoot people.. but if they shot us first in Real-Time then they never saw us firing on their screens and we do no damage or effect to them at all.

We literally.. play behind. Having a ping of 1-30-60-90-120 make no difference on whether we see it or not. With the higher the ping is for players we play with, obviously some little bits of lag may occur. But we can play with anyone with very low pings and still see this play-behind crap.

--

We never had this problem on our cable internet that we had here..
Can you please come up with an explanation as to why this happens to us. And if there is any way of fixing it. And also if it can be fixed or not.
We've tried calling both the service and the techies for Fairpoint several times and none of them can help us with this. They'll check our line and see how it is running, say it is fine and that they don't know why we're having the problem.

What do we do....?


again

@rr.com
reply to FairpointV09
Go back to cable, I had to go cable. My fairpoint DSL was worse the more people they sold DSL too.

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH
said by again :

Go back to cable, I had to go cable. My fairpoint DSL was worse the more people they sold DSL too.
I wish we could... we owe $500 on the cable company around here. And they will also require another $500 deposit bs for us to get it reset up here. We don't have $1,000 to go tossing at a cable company to get a service back. And we need $1000 for oil this winter soon that goes by within a month at most. And we will need at least $3,000 in all for oil. Not to mention the $3750 a month on every bill adding up with an income of $4,400.

We also live off of death benefits and social security. Can't work around here anyway.

We can't even afford to call these people out to check our house line set up.

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH

3 edits
reply to FairpointV09


Are these statistics good or bad? They changed after a storm we had last night after we got disconnected and reset the modem and reconnected. Looks like the margins went up a bit and the line attenuation dropped. The margin continues to slowly go up as well.
Is that good or bad?

We're seeing a liiiiiiiiiiiiiittle less "play behind" latency. But still not enough to where it is playable by normal circumstances.
We've been noticing through some "experiments" with connectivity that our line attenuation can drop down to as far as 29.2 for download and our margin can rise to 20+ for download by doing some things. But the connection doesn't stay that way for long.
We sort of attempt to mess with our direct connection from the telephone poll to our modem. We don't actually mess with that wire connecting to our house but we mess with the connection from that wire to our modem and we have been able to drop to 29.2 Line attenuation at some points but the set up for it is not workable for us.

We don't have an actual in-house line connection. We sort of have to make our own through splitters and long 50+ ft phone lines.

Is it possible for us to get our line upgraded to 7 Mbps again if we get things fixed up? Because apparently your service is dependent on your line quality to begin with and its distance. If our line length jumps far higher than it is just because of poor connectivity within the household itself, doesn't that say we may be able to solve our problems afterall?


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting

1 edit
The stats you posted with the new modem are almost identical to the old.

The previous traceroute you posted is reasonable. My guess is latency problem is not due to your physical connection but rather congestion somewhere between your residence and the game server. Try doing a Traceroute to the game server in good times and bad.

As far as qualifying for 7.1 service you are probably too far but would not hurt to ask.

If wiring in your residence is the problem it is your responsibility to correct. Your description is pretty confusing. Only way to isolate customer problems from phone company is to plug DSL modem into phone company NID test jack. That disconnect inside wiring/equipment from line. If DSL stats improve something within your residence is degrading DSL.

You indicate there are five PCs connected to the DSL line. Are you sure latency problem is not due simply to normal traffic from the differnet PCs?

/tom

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH

2 edits
reply to FairpointV09


My margin keeps going up for the download. Why is that?

--

I am connected through the test jack already. We have no wiring in the house for phone line. We don't own the house either and do not have permission to do anything but turn services on or off. Landlord already made that clear with us.

What's this congestion you speak of? Is it fixable?

We have 5 pc's at most that connect to the modem. Never are more than 2-3 of them actually ever connected.
I'm always on. Another PC is always on and one is on and off. The other 2 are here and there.
And I can monitor traffic going on between everyone on the bandwidth as well. I also net limit most of the other pc's because we only have 350 KB/s to spare.

But again, normal "lag" doesn't seem to be the issue. When someone in the house is using up all the bandwidth is pings fly sky high in games for me that's expected. And it goes both ways.

--
So naturally when the net is not being used up and we play games, whether on PC or console we are always playing behind.
You'd figure if it was "playing behind", then actions we do should occur later. Which is lag. Latency. Delay.
But if any of our actions are cancelled then they don't exist. When there is lag, things just come up delayed. We can play games like Modern Warfare 2(First Person Shooter) on both PC and Console and fill players up with gun shots, but if they had fired on us first, then we die and they never saw us fire. But the point being here is.. we die before they even begin to fire on us, after we already should of killed them. And everyone else can claim that they saw the other person shoot first and we never fired...

It's obviously something really messed up. For the longest time I've thought it had to do with sync issues to the modem. But I really don't know anymore.

We connect thick wires, long wires, short wires, thin wires to the test jack and to the modem. Getting of course, different results.
When connected to a custom thicker wire, short and move the modem to the other side of the house(closer to the test jack), we can actually get our connection better.

But where we "Test" this is not where we can actually use the modem. It disallows the rest of the house to reach the modem and we only have 1 wireless adapter.

When we had first ordered the service, a phone tech had just come to the house and turned on our phone line. We were having issues with getting any connection and it was because the old house line wasn't well enough to hardly hold 56k Dial up.
But we connected to the phone box outside through the test jack and got a solid connection. But at the cost of using long phone wires to cross the house, into the basement, up into the home and then over to the modem.

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH

3 edits
reply to FairpointV09
I'm not sure how I can grab the IPs off of the servers themselves in the games I play. I also play many different games. I connect to every East server for an NA hosted game at 30-35ms. And Europe servers in Germany at 75ms.
-
But my concern is that most of these games are Peer to Peer based. And I get this "lag" instancy with people who have pings as low as 10ms to me. While as stated by them, I show no lag signs to them. And lagging to the server or not shouldn't necessarily be the biggest problem in a P2P game right?

We don't seem to get any packet loss. No disconnection problems often. We don't really get much stalling or actual connectivity problems. We just seem to get everything to our pc's a little later and we send what we do on the pc's a little later. Like it's not the internet connection itself. But the build up of how data is sending and receiving between the modem and pc.

Maybe that is what it is? Could it be the modem is slow? It gets pretty hot often. And every page I go to or every action I perform on the modem through 192.168.1.1 takes a few seconds. But the old Westell 7500 Modem we had would flip pages instantly. But that modem bricked and we got it replaced with this one.

---

said by tschmidt:

The stats you posted with the new modem are almost identical to the old.

/tom
I believe you misread somewhere. We didn't change a modem recently. Our stats changed after a storm and a disconnection.
The first modem we had a year ago bricked up on us. But back then we were running on a 7.1 service as well and still saw the same problems. Except they weren't as bad due to a higher bandwidth and FastPath.

We used to connect to the nearest server on speedtest.net at as low as 24ms on that service. Now we connect as low as 36-54ms.
When we had tried to get the service back again, a few of the people we called denied the request saying they simply couldn't that our line didn't qualify.

One person finally allowed us too. Saying they'd put us on the 7 Mbps service and drop us to a 5 Mbps for us. But a day later when we were switched we had a very low 768 Kbps speed. Hardly any of us could be on the internet at once let alone play games or anything because one web page loading would cause us to lag. As they tried to fix the problem and we waited for a couple weeks we never heard back from it and we decided to go back to 3 Mbps.

Tried asking the other day if one of them would drop me down to 2.2 Mbps on my current service. And the person said they couldn't. Only the 1.5 Mbps, 3.3 Mbps or 7.1 Mbps.
Why is it that some of the people can modify service provisions without a problem, but others go so by the book and refuse too be of any help?

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH
reply to FairpointV09
One more thing(excuse the long text).
When we had 7.1 Mbps before, we had a drop out one day where we disconnected and reconnected. When we reconnected we were at 3.3 Mbps and went from ADSL2+ to ADSL_G.dmt and still on FastPath. We were confused for a moment as to why we dropped. But we decided to try our games since margins were higher and what not. We had absolutely 0 lag problems during this small time. Literally no issues even with people who had 80-110ms.

But shortly an hour the connection went bad so we restarted the modem and re-plugged the wire and got our 7.1 Mbps back. And went back to the playing behind and seeing everyone lag while we didn't lag to them.

FairpointV09

join:2010-09-22
Franklin, NH
reply to FairpointV09


That's our connection on a 15 ft. Phone cord.

We did some testing. We use a splitter that plugs into the test jack. One plug for the phone and one for the modem.

Here are some tests we did:

#1: Removed splitter and placed direct connection between modem to test jack, 15 ft. cord.
-Results:
8.9 dB download margin
38 Line Attenuation download

#2: Kept splitter in place, connected 15 ft cord to modem, placed filter in splitter as well, connected filter to phone line to phone.
-Results:
Above picture. The highest margins we've had, and low Line Attenuation.

#3: Kept splitter in place, connected 50 ft. cord to modem, placed filter in splitter as well, connected filter to phone line to phone.
-Results:
17.3 dB download - 15.0 upload margins
35 download - 19.5 upload Line Attenuation

#4: Kept splitter in place, connected 50 ft. cord to modem, placed phone line in splitter, placed filter in phone and connected to phone line.
-Results:
12.2 dB download 13.5 upload margins
37 download - 20.5 upload Line Attenuation

#5: Kept splitter in place, connected 15 ft. cord to modem, placed phone line in splitter, placed filter in phone and connected to phone line.
-Results:
low margins, high line attenuation

---

Overall Results:

It seems that with our ADSL connection, we can't get any kind of an even "decent" connection if we don't have a filter on the line.
But the thing is, even without a phone connecting, with just a direct connection to the test jack and modem, our stats are horrible. We got as low as 6 dB download with a direct connection.

We also have to plug the filter right into the splitter before connecting the phone line to get higher margins. But we also have to actually connect to a working phone for it to be successful.

If we connect our modem to the splitter, put a filter on and don't connect to a phone, we get pings over 600+ no matter what in anything online. We don't stay connected, we disconnect from servers, from sites, pages fail to load.

---

So what is our problem?