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Doonz

join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB
reply to bt

Re: [Hockey] Official~ NHL thread...........scores and highlites

said by bt:

said by Doonz:

Also As i posted a few post back the poster used REAL numbers based on the NHLPA proposals. If you can't figure out why the NHL wont work with them you would realize that the NHLPA is spinning things with the best of them.

Sure, real numbers. 2 of which are below even what the NHL was low-balling for growth. The two key numbers there are the 5% growth (NHL) and 7% growth (NHLPA) values. Both of those show it going to 50/50, and staying there. How is that not a deal that gets to 50/50?

His analysis above the numbers is based far to heavily on the other two sets of data that even the NHL won't use because they're that skewed.

It's also of only one of the 3 most recent NHLPA proposals.

Then there's your analysis of what he said, which takes that skew and runs with it.

"the player want to Delink" is what you took out of it, ignoring where that poster says "it switches over to a linked system where players get 50/50"

No - the disagreement isn't over 50/50. Both sides are fine with 50/50. It's a question of how to get to 50/50 from the current 57/43. The NHL wants an immediate jump to it, and the NHLPA wants a transition to it. That's the facts, no matter how people try to spin it.

Actually what he wrote is true. The NHLPA wants a raise every year and don't care what real revenue is.

So what your saying is if this year resume after xmas your saying the league will make 5% more than it did last year?

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by Doonz:

Actually what he wrote is true. The NHLPA wants a raise every year and don't care what real revenue is.

No, it's not. 2 of the 3 offers end up locked at 50/50. It's a fact, and no amount of bad data analysis will change that.

Especially when the data shows that, and the analysis tries to disagree.

said by Doonz:

So what your saying is if this year resume after xmas your saying the league will make 5% more than it did last year?

Of course not. That's based on a full season, and beyond that it's the expected average annual growth over the term of the new CBA (5-7 years, depending on the offer). So is the amount of $$$ that would go to the players under any offer from either side (they agreed to figure out the full-season details first, then work out how to adjust for a shortened season).

As for league growth, they've had increased revenue every single year since the last lockout. The size of the increase varied from season to season, but it was always more than the previous season.

Doonz

join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB
said by bt:

said by Doonz:

Actually what he wrote is true. The NHLPA wants a raise every year and don't care what real revenue is.

No, it's not. 2 of the 3 offers end up locked at 50/50. It's a fact, and no amount of bad data analysis will change that.

Especially when the data shows that, and the analysis tries to disagree.

said by Doonz:

So what your saying is if this year resume after xmas your saying the league will make 5% more than it did last year?

Of course not. That's based on a full season, and beyond that it's the expected average annual growth over the term of the new CBA (5-7 years, depending on the offer). So is the amount of $$$ that would go to the players under any offer from either side (they agreed to figure out the full-season details first, then work out how to adjust for a shortened season).

As for league growth, they've had increased revenue every single year since the last lockout. The size of the increase varied from season to season, but it was always more than the previous season.

The league has not had positive growth every year as backed up by the players escrow withholding.

EDIT:

Anyhow im done on this thread. You can come join us on the buisness board of hockey on Hfboards and get proper insight into the numbers. btw the board is used by many insiders of the NHL

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by Doonz:

The league has not had positive growth every year as backed up by the players escrow withholding.

You keep thinking that... every single reliable source has year over year growth for the league since the last lockout. I'll take that over numbers from armchair accountants, as reliable sources have actually proven reliable.


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
reply to ZZZZZZZ

Leafs' fan flushes $5K

»www.castanet.net/edition/news-st···tm#83464

lol..........no comment.
--
~~Go Lions....back to back Cups!!~~


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
Some people have more money than brains.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to ZZZZZZZ

Puck Gary 2012-13 NHL Lockout



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
The players are making some eloquent statements. I like the first three in the survey -- I voted for #1 as my favourite!

- Versteeg calling Bettman/Daly "cancers" 32.44% (470 votes)

- White calling Bettman an "idiot" 29.95% (434 votes)

- Krejci pointing out Bettman's salary increase 29.4% (426 votes)
--
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: [Hockey] Official~ NHL thread...........scores and highlites

Correct me if I'm wrong here......but the league is really run by the
8(?) owners on the exec council. Buttman is their flunky figurehead
who takes the public shots.

The way I hear it some of the non-exec council owners are starting
to rattle chains. Lots of grumbling in the ranks.

FaxCap

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by FaxCap:

Correct me if I'm wrong here......but the league is really run by the
8(?) owners on the exec council. Buttman is their flunky figurehead
who takes the public shots.

Nobody outside of the owners is really sure if it's that, or if it's that he has 8 owners willing to follow his lead.

capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver
reply to FaxCap
In my experience the Head Negotiator has a set of rules as laid down by his bosses. The manner of negotiating is conducted by the Negotiator. After each day the Employers are informed about the minutes. He can advise. But its their money. They have the final say.

I am in negotiations, at the moment, representing Owners. We have a Professional, doing the talking, but he takes orders from me. In six months we haven't decided on the venue. Union dislikes non-Union hotels. We pay for the hotel daily so we call the shots on hotel.

Another wise thing is to keep your goddam mouth shut. the Players , by mouthing off, are only being stupid. But then again how can Fehr control 500-600 members not receiving wages.
--
Why is the time of Day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?



Styvas
Go Canucks Go
Premium
join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON
Seriously!? That's the sticking point at this point? What do you expect a union hotel to do? Bug the rooms?


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to FaxCap
said by FaxCap:

Correct me if I'm wrong here......but the league is really run by the 8(?) owners on the exec council. Buttman is their flunky figurehead who takes the public shots.

Maybe be some truth to that, but if so, anyone of integrity would have either stood up to them or quit years ago. To suggest that Buttman is an incompetent stooge for ruthless owners who hangs around just to collect $8 mil a year isn't much of a defense of either him or the NHL management structure.

capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver
reply to Styvas
said by Styvas:

Seriously!? That's the sticking point at this point? What do you expect a union hotel to do? Bug the rooms?

No. It costs much more, about $500 per day. But that's not the point. I have my instructions. The Owners refuse a change of venue. That's caving in at the start. I'm trying to say that's the way negotiations go. They are flexing their muscle. Happens every time. After that we will argue about seating arrangements. Venue and seating takes a year. Longshore Unions are powerful and aggresive and dangerous. Usually I get my tires slashed. Last year I had my windshield removed and my car hoisted on top of double tiered containers. That's when I know they are frustrated.
--
Why is the time of Day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?



Styvas
Go Canucks Go
Premium
join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON
Unreal.


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
reply to ZZZZZZZ
Why hasn't a mediator been chosen yet........this ego fight between buttman and fehr isn't going to get things solved,ever.
--
~~Go Lions....back to back Cups!!~~


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
said by ZZZZZZZ:

Why hasn't a mediator been chosen yet........this ego fight between buttman and fehr isn't going to get things solved,ever.

I don't think either side wants a mediator, at least one who's decisions would be in any way binding, as they will end up 'losing face' for not getting their stated demands. Egos are huge, fragile, and in the way of anything moving anywhere.

Pierre McGuire said something on the radio a few weeks ago that I thought was quite telling (this isn't verbatim, but a recollection of the conversation he had with TGOR): Gary Bettman, rightly or wrongly, is doing the bidding of the owners. The owners are all successful businessmen in other realms who are used to getting their own way and winning, as that's what's made them successful and able to buy a team in the first place. Put them up against hockey players who are 'rockstars' in their world and there's a lot of pressure from both sides to get their own way.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
Classic jr hockey games on TSN,every Wednesday.

Great game tonight........Toews 3 shootout goals against the Yanks in 2007.
--
Sarcasm is the body’s natural defense against stupidity.


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to ZZZZZZZ
Click for full size
Click for full size


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
reply to ZZZZZZZ
An ex-Maple Leaf putting the team in a great light - love it!

What kind of idiot....oh wait, we now know exactly what kind of idiot would do something that stupid.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
reply to ZZZZZZZ
More game cancellations and All-Star Weekend cancellation expected in 5...4...3...2...


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to Kardinal
haha nice excuse with the hacked account. lol.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
reply to ZZZZZZZ
NHL cancels games through Dec 14th

FaxCap

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by FaxCap:

NHL cancels games through Dec 14th

And All-Star game.

WNGFAN 1

join:2003-11-02
Leamington, ON
said by bt:

said by FaxCap:

NHL cancels games through Dec 14th

And All-Star game.

Will the next announcement be the cancellation of the rest of the season? Butteman said he won't wait as long to wipe the season as he did in 2004.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
rumours are circulating that certifying the NHLPA could be a possible option.

»www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lock···bettman/


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to WNGFAN 1
I think they will most likely cancel the season before xmas if there is no deal, as I dont think they want as short a season as it was in 94, which was 48 games...


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
reply to dirtyjeffer
»bleacherreport.com/articles/1418···ejection

exactly,get this happening...........keep the idiot owners in court for years.

But the Lockout would be over.
--
Sarcasm is the body’s natural defense against stupidity.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to HiVolt
I think the general opinion is that sometime around Dec 15 is the drop-dead date. If they can't get the season started by then or very shortly thereafter, there won't be any NHL hockey this season.


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to dirtyjeffer
Click for full size
said by dirtyjeffer:

rumours are circulating that certifying the NHLPA could be a possible option.

»www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lock···bettman/

De-certification?

I like this Why you do it.