3 recommendations |
cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 12:23 pm
Pouring concrete steps - DIYFollowup from » Cost to pour concrete stepsSince most contractors seem to not want the work (one of 6 came for a quote, one other returned my call after more than 1 week) and I had no desire to pay close to $2000 for a couple of days of unskilled labor I ended up doing it myself... This is how they looked like when we bought the house... 2 years later they were completely rotten and looked more like a ramp. 
The demolition process didn't take very long with the inspector watching closely... However for some reason he prefers digging his own stuff  
I decided to play safe and got some solid materials for the forms. Turned out to be a bit overkill, but made my job much easier. Some $250 for all wood and 1/2" rebar, $20 for the HD truck rental. 
Since there are huge rocks and eliminating them would have required blasting I re-designed around them. This is where my project suddenly becomes larger than what I've been quoted. Not much more complicated though. 
Calculating the step height/depth is about the only "skilled" thing so far - if elementary school math, measuring and cutting along a line considered "skilled work" that is... Ended up with 6 7/8" height and 13" depth for the steps. Cutting the treads is a no-brainer if you can operate a circular saw and a jig saw... 
Few cuts later the risers are in place. Used screws for easy removal. 
1/2" rebar is laid. Should be more than enough 
Concrete truck is on site to pour. The owner said he would give me a helping hand for finishing but I learned from others that you can't rely on contractors. So I have a plan B. And a plan C. 
Of course now someone will say "what - not supporting the middle of the risers??? It will buckle..." Nope, I am supporting them with 2x4's across the risers. Since the calculations for the final width show a pushing force somewhere below 160lbs, the 2x4's are more than enough. That plus the fact that I had nowhere to support at the base... After the lower part is poured the concrete guy changes his tune and says he can't get on the upper side with his truck, too dangerous, some branches that might hit it, blah blah blah... so his suggestion is to come again the next day with the reminder of concrete and bring me a labor guy to carry buckets of concrete. Of course I would have to pay for all the concrete he brought that day plus what he would bring the next day... plus a delivery charge... plus the cost of the worker.... ummmm no, plan B it is. I was prepared for this scenario and had temporary treads made strong enough to support the weight of a person and not bend enough to touch the concrete. So I tell him to dump the concrete and I'll take care of the rest. Paid his bill and gave him $50 for the help. 
My plan B is to get a friend to help me carry the buckets, he told me he would be available but he has a client in the morning. Only the concrete guy came almost 2hrs earlier than he said and my friend is on his way back but will be another 1hr until he gets to me. A bit too long, the concrete may start to set. So time for plan C - call a friend who is a contractor to borrow me one of his $15/h labor guys. 20 minutes later the help is already lifting buckets. Another 1.5 hrs of work and we're done... And the finished product: 
Thanks who all who proved that light travels faster than sound in the original thread by throwing random numbers for the force on the risers... To their surprise the forms didn't buckle... I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that at the top of each riser the pressure is virtually 0... hmmmm....  Eventually the steps will be covered with stone (that's why the first step is shorter by 1"), but that is probably 1-2 years down the road. Overall it came pretty damn well... wasn't as difficult as I thought, and for the most part it was just unskilled work as I said before. Finishing concrete is easy... that's all I can say and it was my very first time. Setting up the forms was easy as well, only needed about 3 minutes of help from my wife. Would I do it again? Hell yes - it took me some 4 days of work head to head (could have done it in 3 days if I worked hard), and saved enough to go on a nice vacation... I'd say that this kind of project is a bit too much for the average DIY-er, but if you are a handy one it only looks like a big challenge, it's much easier when you do it... Just make sure you have someone to help you for the finishing part if it's a large project. |
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Sounds very well planned with backup contingencies.. PS I like your inspector. |
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to cowboyro
Looks nice, I see you have a down spout in that corner, how are you going to deal with that? |
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finally
MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO |
to cowboyro
Looks like the inspector stopped showing up after you put in the rebar  |
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to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:Looks nice, I see you have a down spout in that corner, how are you going to deal with that? That is for the future - I just installed the pipe when digging, I will extend it away from the garage for now and 1-2 years down the road when we re-do the driveway (which will be a tear-down) I will run it under the driveway and away from the house. |
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Good time to do it, and saves you the misery of digging through the rock, and when done keeps the driveway from becoming a sheet of ice.
I don't what it is with sliding/eave trough guys, they seem to install the down pipes in the worst possible location, nor do they follow municipal bylaws (around here you can’t discharge in a side yard - naturally that is where most of them are installed). |
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 dogmaXYZ
Premium Member
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV |
to cowboyro
Sweet.
What's to become of that retaining wall? |
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to cowboyro
Great job on the stairs. Someday I'd like to learn how to do concrete work. Next year I need to redo a 14' concrete sidewalk so we'll see if I can manage that or not next year. :P |
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 bobrkYou kids get offa my lawn
Premium Member
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA |
to cowboyro
Just curious, but do you have to tie the concrete into the ground at all? Since it's on rock, it's not expected to shift? |
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cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 1:52 pm
It's going over and around a rock on the lower part. On the upper part I put a footing deep into the ground (see the tube). If that thing is moving then my house is long gone... |
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| cowboyro |
to dogma
said by dogma:What's to become of that retaining wall? It's solid rock and HD doesn't sell explosives around here... I guess it's staying where it is. |
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 Dennis
Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL |
to cowboyro
looks good...concrete is one of those things I avoid whenever possible. Then again I used to say that about electrical and plumbing. |
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to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:said by dogma:What's to become of that retaining wall? It's solid rock and HD doesn't sell explosives around here... I guess it's staying where it is. Couldn't you use one of these? » www.micro-blaster.com/ |
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cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 2:21 pm
said by rendrenner:said by cowboyro:said by dogma:What's to become of that retaining wall? It's solid rock and HD doesn't sell explosives around here... I guess it's staying where it is. Couldn't you use one of these? » www.micro-blaster.com/ I'd need a mega-blaster... the whole land is like that. It's not one rock, it's a solid bed of rock... |
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to cowboyro
Given all the work and expense you had with the forms, and the fact that concrete steps had already eroded away once, I would've probably just gone with wood or maybe Trex or similar for the actual steps and been done with it. But that's just the way my mind works. |
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cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 2:51 pm
said by scross:Given all the work and expense you had with the forms, and the fact that concrete steps had already eroded away once, I would've probably just gone with wood or maybe Trex or similar for the actual steps and been done with it. But that's just the way my mind works. It was wood originally. The railroad grid ties kind... |
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 jjoshua
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ |
to cowboyro
Looks nice. This is your first time doing a project like this?
I want to call BS on your 3-4 day work effort if it includes all of the prep work and you working solo with hand tools. However, I'll take your word for it. |
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 MemphisPCGuyTaking Care Business
Premium Member
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
2 edits |
to cowboyro
Awesome job ... can you fax me a copy of your insurance and bond please If you look at costs.. you would presume a guy makes $200 (or for 2-3 unskilled laborers) a day if he has a skill set so you have $600 in labor plus material. Add insurance and mark up and $2000 isn't unreasonable. |
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to cowboyro
Congratulation! Good job!! |
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1 edit |
to cowboyro
Sorry, but since you said "rebuilding some concrete steps" I just assumed that the originals were concrete, too. But I also see where you said they were "rotten", which I missed the first time. I still would have probably gone the Trex route, even though I've done some of my own concrete work in the past.
I'm really amazed that you had some much trouble getting construction folks to help you out at a reasonable price. Around here things are so bad right now that they routinely go up and down the streets, soliciting for work of pretty much any kind. The roofing folks seem to be the worst, with some of those being on the edge of landing in jail. And just a couple of days ago we had an incident where a local construction guy decided to try and supplement his income by making and selling meth, but his plans literally blew up in his face. |
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to jjoshua
said by jjoshua:Looks nice. This is your first time doing a project like this? I want to call BS on your 3-4 day work effort if it includes all of the prep work and you working solo with hand tools. However, I'll take your word for it. Most of the work was shovel... Ripping off the old stairs only took few hours, a pry bar took them apart in no time. They were already gone when I was quoted for the project. It doesn't take long to cut some plywood and make some stringers from a 2x12 if you know how to measure As a matter of fact the stringers took about 1hr and each riser was a matter of cutting a sheet with the circular saw then trimming it and forming the bottom angle with a table saw... |
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| cowboyro |
to scross
said by scross:I'm really amazed that you had some much trouble getting construction folks to help you out at a reasonable price. I was amazed too. The contractor that quoted me mentioned 9cu -yds of concrete (I used 3yds for even a bigger job). If he indeed calculated 9yds by mistake or using some stupid software then it's his loss... |
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estover4
Premium Member
join:2004-03-16
Valencia, PA |
to cowboyro
You really are calling that finished?
What you have there is a DIYers set of concrete stairs.
Blowing up the pic there are holes in the risers, a huge puddle of water on the last step. and just about the roughest surface I think I have ever seen. I would love to see a pic of that after a couple hard winters, you are going to have flaking, pitting, pooping and edges breaking off in real short order. You do understand what the process of "finishing" is right? It is not completing the job. It is a process of driving the "cream" to the top causing a very hard smooth covering to the concrete below, that will not allow water to enter and freeze. It is not just about making it look pretty and able to be walked on. I jive it 5 to 6 years and you will have a set of steps that will look exactly like the ones you pulled out, SHIT. |
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67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL |
67845017 (banned)
Member
2010-Sep-30 4:17 pm
said by estover4:You really are calling that finished? What you have there is a DIYers set of concrete stairs. Blowing up the pic there are holes in the risers, a huge puddle of water on the last step. and just about the roughest surface I think I have ever seen. I would love to see a pic of that after a couple hard winters, you are going to have flaking, pitting, pooping and edges breaking off in real short order. You do understand what the process of "finishing" is right? It is not completing the job. It is a process of driving the "cream" to the top causing a very hard smooth covering to the concrete below, that will not allow water to enter and freeze. It is not just about making it look pretty and able to be walked on. I jive it 5 to 6 years and you will have a set of steps that will look exactly like the ones you pulled out, SHIT. I get what you're saying, except for the pooping part. I take it you're offended by the unskilled labor comments and I assume you do concrete work? |
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estover4
Premium Member
join:2004-03-16
Valencia, PA |
estover4
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 4:21 pm
I call it pooping, when the stones that have not been driven below the top enough and start to pop open a hole.
I do not do manual labor but have in the past and enjoy a job done right, and cant stand it when someone claims to have done the exact same job as a skilled person would have done when there job is so painfully bad. |
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cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 4:35 pm
If you bothered to read you'd have seen that they will be covered in stone down the road. A rougher surface is therefore desired :P
A surface that is too smooth is also slippery - so it is rougher by design. Some use a broom to roughen the surface, some use a wooden float smartypants... |
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Dennis
Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
1 recommendation |
to estover4
said by estover4:I do not do manual labor but have in the past and enjoy a job done right, and cant stand it when someone claims to have done the exact same job as a skilled person would have done when there job is so painfully bad. You can have an opinion if you want and certainly you can share it here....but you've got to learn how to say it nicer than calling the job "shit" based off a zoomed in 360x480 picture. Maybe your right or maybe your wrong but acting like that won't get a point across and will get you warned. |
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estover4
Premium Member
join:2004-03-16
Valencia, PA |
estover4
Premium Member
2010-Sep-30 4:48 pm
Your right, I'm sorry I don't know what came over me. Great job there guy!! You should start your own business doing concrete work. I've never seen such a wonderful job. I keep forgetting EVERYONE need to be told only good things about what they do.
Lesson learned, moving on. |
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67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL |
67845017 (banned)
Member
2010-Sep-30 4:57 pm
I think you missed Dennis' point . . . |
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jjoshua
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ |
to cowboyro
Ok. So the 4 days didn't include demolition. |
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