Topic 'Re: The Death of the Cat' in forum 'World of Warcraft' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24873969 en Thu, 23 May 2013 12:06:03 EDT Thu, 23 May 2013 12:06:03 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24895646 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24895646 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 16:58:11 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24895278
Most gear, say 90% of it that had armpen it was converted all to crit, even adding to existing crit, so maybe he means he reforged 40% of the crit to haste, that'll make more sense, but you can't if the gear already has haste, so it goes to mastery ratig..

he lost 10 expertise rating or 10 expertise? (not the same thing), my rogue lost full 14 expertise (from 26/26 to 12/12)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24895278 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 15:55:26 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893620 forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa···&sid=1#7

This is an excerpt from my post on a different thread on another account. I am similarly interested in anyone else's testing.

Feral Druids are a bit underpowered at the moment using the build currently on the Public Test Realm. I was; however, able to reach about 80-85% of the damage I can reach using a different setup than live. I am currently stacking Agility, Haste (ArP on gear automatically converted to Haste) and Mastery (which I Reforged from all the Haste), in that order. My gems are all Agility (red), Agility/Crit (yellow) and Agility/Hit (blue). This is just one setup although seemingly optimal with the gear available. All my enchantments are Agility and I am currently testing Mongoose on my weapon. I have the following statistics unbuffed:

2209 Agility
712 Haste (21.71%) with Needle Encrusted Scorpion proc = 42.38% Haste (barely manageable with Tiger's Fury and/or Omen of Clarity)
343 Mastery (15.47%)

My build is pretty obvious except with emphasis on PvP/Utility. Infected Wounds, Stampede, Brutal Impact and Nurturing Instinct and excluding Fury Swipes. All other choices seem relatively obvious for a pure dps build.

Here are some things I have noticed:

Haste seems to work extremely well to quickly regenerate energy; I found that 30% Haste seems to work well since this provides a significant buff to energy regeneration but is manageable. I found that Haste over 50% was unmanageable when using Tiger's Fury or with Omen of Clarity procs. Haste is not currently effecting Damage over Time (Rake, Rip) "ticks;" although my testing in the last PTR build demonstrated that Haste was effecting DoTs in that build. If Blizzard reenables this your damage should rise significantly.

Mastery seems to effect Rake, Rip and Shred which comprise a considerable percentage of our damage.

DoTs can be critical strikes even though Feral Druids no longer have a specific talent to cause DoTs to allow critical strikes.

Stampede is an outstanding talent. I have been able to consistently Ravage three times with the talent and in some cases I was able to Ravage four or even five times. I have not lost a duel yet unless I was specifically testing a particular aspect of the game and lost intentionally. As a note i would not consider myself very good at PvP as a Feral Druid.

Fury Swipes provided only an additional ~1% of damage for three talent points. I would consider this for min/maxing but I used the points in other areas for improving PvP and raid utility.

Primal Madness helps with energy management during Berserk and Tiger's Fury. This talent is a must have with high levels of Haste in my opinion.

Endless Carnage helps considerably with Rake uptime although I wouldn't get this talent for the buff to Savage Roar alone. The one-two punch of this talent makes it very worthwhile.

Rend and Tear, Feral Aggression and Blood in the Water harmonize quite well. This trio of talents is an amazing improvement that shouldn't be overlooked even if you can't test Blood in the Water on a target dummy.

My Feral Druid lost about 3,000 Attack Power (I assume as a result of the removal of Feral Attack Power from weapons although the numbers don't exactly match). Some of the difference is relieved with the increased conversion rate of 2 Attack Power per 1 Agility.

I lost about 4% critical strike since a Feral Druid can't reach Master Shapeshifter at level 80.

The optimal rotation is the same as WotLK as we seem to have maintained essentially the same priority system and I couldnt see any differences in the priorities except that Savage Roar is slightly less important and Rip is replaced with Ferocious Bite at 25% of target's health.

Rip (replace with Ferocious Bite at 25% of target's health) (I averaged 1,348 dpe)
Savage Roar (I roar at 4 or 5 CP) (Need more time to calculate dpe)
Mangle Debuff (35 energy) ( I averaged 94.74 dpe)
Rake Debuff (I averaged 457. 42 dpe)
Shred (40 energy) (I averaged 106 dpe)
Faerie Fire (currently bugged - doesnt cause damage that I can see although tooltip indicates it should)
Ferocious Bite (I averaged ~214 dpe)

I tried dropping Ferocious Bite altogether and the difference was 5% loss in dps while dropping Savage Roar was about a 10% loss in overall dps. I wouldn't even consider dropping Rip since you should reroll if you can't keep Rip up >80% of the time; as a result I didn't bother testing the dps loss of not using Rip.

Lorebris
Drenden

I found this post very informative. It seems that Blizz is making most of our hard hitting abilities scale with Matery, and allowing us to hit for less, but more often with the changes to haste. We are still doing less damage than on live, but this is another very informative opinion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893620 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:52:03 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893583 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893583 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:44:15 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893535 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893535 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:36:25 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893499 said by Treebark:

I have PVP'ed a little in arena and BG's. I am usually resto when I pvp. They have alot of survivability tools for PVP and Starfall is OP. I was cyclone bot alot and casting wrath a few times and back to cyclone/roots/typhoon.

They have alot of tools. I haven't seen alot of PVP boomkins but like I said, it was fun to me when I pvp'ed as that spec.
might take me forever to get one to 80 but what the hell why not. ill try it out. already got a drood at around 13ish. ill just give him my BoA gear from my other dudes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893499 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:31:38 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893491
They have alot of tools. I haven't seen alot of PVP boomkins but like I said, it was fun to me when I pvp'ed as that spec. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893491 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:29:52 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893440 said by Treebark:

If you have never been a boomkin, it is a very easy spec to play, nothing much to it really. A lot of healing gear can be used for it. And as easy as it is, I find it alot of fun.
ive always wanted to try being a moonkin. is it fun to play pvp wise? its mostly rather easy to pwn em down in pvp unless they actually play good, as my mage. but they look like fun to play. are they?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893440 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:22:29 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893426 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893426 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:20:37 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893387 said by stvnbrs:

A similar scenerio would be if you took one of the tanks and cut their health by 60% and let the other tanks keep theirs. (This is the reference of kitty dps vs. caster dps atm as all melee are down.)
that would suck... if i cared about pve as much as i care about pvp. on my part itd be more about my mana pool or resil or even CDs on certain spells that help my survivability.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893387 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:12:24 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893373 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893373 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:09:08 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893308 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893308 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:55:42 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893202 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893202 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:29:01 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893180 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893180 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:21:35 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893086 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893086 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:00:20 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893070 4 reasons:
removal of 10 expertise rating,
removal of FAP,
removal or ArP,
loss of 8% crit (gained back at lvl 85)

I jumped on the PTR last night and tried to test out my current kitty, char xfer was slow, so I used a premade. I won't post numbers, as I want to do a side-by-side comparison of same characters with similar gear, but crit did seem lower than I remember it should be with the premade gear. This may be due to the 8% crit that we won't get for Master Shapeshifter talents until lvl 85. Hopefully tonight I can do more testing. One thing is clear though, kitties will see a significant drop in ALL IMPORTANT STATS in the new patch unless numbers are fixed. This will lead to SIGNIFICANT DPS LOSS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24893070 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:56:44 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24891072 --
»www.nomorenoob.com - Wow help site
Noob of the month - »www.nomorenoob.com/p/noob-of-month.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24891072 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:12:54 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24890291 said by Tirael:

Aside from the removal of FAP and Arpen, almost all your problems can be fixed with better gear. You are going to suck at level 80 in cataclysm. Imagine how a fury warrior felt. A lot of what you guys are talking about is in a raiding environment, which does not equal leveling enviroment.

Everyone and I mean EVERY single class is having the same issues with dps that ferals are having right now. It was my understanding that unless you had top notch gear, feral dps was crap (similar to fury warriors). A lot of it may just be that (like A LOT of new talents) that the numbers are there as placeholders just to see how they work in a rotation, then as cata gets closer, you see Blizz buff their damage substantially.

Also, without hard numbers (I mean combatlog parses, which you can read without uploading to WoL/WWS) and testing, somewhere around 100-200 dps tests on a patchwerk style fight, you can never really know what your dps should/could/will be.

I am guessing that even EJ has done somethings in this area as well. Your best bet would be just a wait and see game before crying about the sky falling.
I think you miss what we are saying here. I know other classes have been hit. Said so myself. But no class has been hit with a 60%+ reduction in DPS. I can't ever recall that big of a drop at anytime.

Gear is not the issue unless they add back FAP to gear which they won't. Tons of posts on EJ as saying what I'm saying. They have done the tests and looked at combat logs. things are bad.

Yes maybe by Cata release things will be better. But that means we can't do squat right now as this will impact us starting with 4.0.1 release. No more raiding for mounts or achievements. There are numerous posts of kitties who did 12 to 15K dps in ICC now doing under 5K on the PTR. Some is fixed by gem changes and trinket changes. But that is a huge drop.

As for waiting we are seeing what is going on right now on the PTR. this is not something that MIGHT happen but is going to happen with the next update. It's not based on rotations, gear knowing your class etc. The top feral druids in the world are saying this.

I also played a fury warrior and that is nothing compared to this situation. Will things get better? Yes I'm positive they will. But for about 2 months I won't be able to raid as a kitty.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24890291 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 17:05:48 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889628 said by Tirael:

Everyone and I mean EVERY single class is having the same issues with dps that ferals are having right now........ A lot of it may just be that (like A LOT of new talents) that the numbers are there as placeholders just to see how they work in a rotation, then as cata gets closer, you see Blizz buff their damage substantially.
I just said the same thing you did. (hint: read the bolded text)
--
“Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites.” - Anthony J. D'Angelo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889628 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:29:11 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889612 As I have said many times over in this thread, ferals are good on the mechanics department, numbers just need to be adjusted. Unfortunately, even with lvl 85 gear and spec, kitty dps is lagging behind. Bears currently do more damage than kitties solo. This is a specific numbers issue. The problem lies in that raiding kitties such as myself, will find their dps contributions severely cut down, which for guilds still tryint to progress doesn't help much.

Also, feral dps doesn't need huge amounts of gear to do decent dps, just a skilled player, now skill still doesn't cut it, and neither does gear. Again, this is a numbers issue, but for current kitties, we may be a rare breed come the patch if they aren't adjusted prior.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889612 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:25:41 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889562
Will have to go survival that's the top end dmg spec on 4.0.1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889562 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:17:52 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889544
Everyone and I mean EVERY single class is having the same issues with dps that ferals are having right now. It was my understanding that unless you had top notch gear, feral dps was crap (similar to fury warriors). A lot of it may just be that (like A LOT of new talents) that the numbers are there as placeholders just to see how they work in a rotation, then as cata gets closer, you see Blizz buff their damage substantially.

Also, without hard numbers (I mean combatlog parses, which you can read without uploading to WoL/WWS) and testing, somewhere around 100-200 dps tests on a patchwerk style fight, you can never really know what your dps should/could/will be.

I am guessing that even EJ has done somethings in this area as well. Your best bet would be just a wait and see game before crying about the sky falling.
--
“Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites.” - Anthony J. D'Angelo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889544 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:14:45 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889470 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889470 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:02:12 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889433
Every class is having problems with specific things, as stated above. Almost every melee class that enjoyed Arpen (Frost DKs, Fury Warriors, ferals and combat rogues) are seeing huge drops in dps. Most of you who are experienced enough with WoW should have seen this coming when Blizz told us all that arpen was going the way of the dodo.

For those of you who don't understand, let me spell it out for you. The mobs you are hitting are no longer being "debuffed" by your arpen because it doesn't exist. Therefore you are hitting mobs for what you WOULD have been hitting them for without arpen pre-4.0/Beta/PTR.

Now, Blizz DID tune the Beta/PTR for 85 because that is what they are interested in testing, not the inbetween levels. They will work on tuning the damage between levels 80-85 a few weeks after Cataclysm hits, but until then they will probably leave it alone, similar to what they did with Vani-BC and BC-Wrath.

Also, what target dummies are you hitting? If you are hitting the Grandmaster Dummy (skull ?? mob) it is possible you are hitting the level 88 boss dummy. I would try my numbers out on the level 80 dummy if I was just 80 and the level 85 dummy (if it exists). If you are hitting a [Skull] mob it means on of two things:

1) The mob is more than 4 levels higher than your current level
2) It's a boss level mob which means it is level 88.
--
“Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites.” - Anthony J. D'Angelo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889433 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:55:11 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889426 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889426 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:54:26 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889414 [ Classes] Druid Thread for answers to questions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889414 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:52:18 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889402 said by stvnbrs:

»druid.wikispaces.com/

Edit: Should be accessable from behind WebSense
Thanks,
I've checked that site out before. It always seemed somewhat dated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889402 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:50:26 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889299 druid.wikispaces.com/

Edit: Should be accessable from behind WebSense]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889299 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:36:31 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889260 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24889260 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:29:34 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24887896 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24887896 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 08:18:04 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24885601 said by bTU:

can't go Shroomkin?
I could but my gear would suck. I knew I should have taken all those drops that we DE'd. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24885601 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 17:11:14 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24885393 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24885393 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:00:41 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24885155 said by stvnbrs:

TBH the class isn't broken or messed up, the numbers are just down. Numbers are easy to fix as has been said before. Implementing a new UI or class mechanic can take much more work and break in many ways. Kitties were left pretty much alone with the exception of a few new abilities, double auto-attacks, stampeding roar and skull bash. Nothing is ground breaking, they just need to adjust our numbers to fit more in line with what the caster dps is putting out.
Ture it's not broken in the sense that it will take new talents to fix. But when the 4.0.1 patch goes live I will no longer be able to go into ICC/Ulduar and who knows where else in a kitty spec. That is broken to me because I was trying to get a few Ulduar and ICC achievements and mounts.

I could tank but then our current tanks would have to drop out or change specs. So while the numbers will eventually be fixed and adjusted it does break the game for now and this prevents me from playing for the next few weeks (or until they change things).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24885155 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:28:26 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884290 said by Magillacon:

said by Treebark:

Fire is top DPS/Total dmg done for end game right now, not arcane.


It's like you knew what I needed to hear. Then said it. I might have to xfer to horde for this one. Ud mage spin kicking fireballs at errbodiee =D
I think he was saying that even in CURRENT Fire is top for end game ... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884290 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:24:38 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884148 said by Treebark:

Fire is top DPS/Total dmg done for end game right now, not arcane.


It's like you knew what I needed to hear. Then said it. I might have to xfer to horde for this one. Ud mage spin kicking fireballs at errbodiee =D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884148 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:54:55 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884064 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884064 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:40:04 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884050 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24884050 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:38:00 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883931
Edit: In bear form & spec with same gear I do more damage at lvl 85 solo.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883931 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:20:08 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883831
Or im just completely wrong also very possible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883831 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:00:23 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883756 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883756 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:46:52 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883687 said by stvnbrs:

k, so I did some more testing last night on the beta. Currently in a good mix of 264 with a few 251 gear, (Feraless on Emerald Dream if you want to armory me) this is what I saw:

5 CP FB w/ SR was critting for about 6.2k (this is with the glyph that removes additional damage for energy glyph)

Mangle with SR was hitting for 3.3 avg.

I did not have recount going, but unless the new ability that allows us to double attack on melee increases our damage significantly, the numbers just won't do. Right now I would saw that kitties are down about 60% in beta than what they would be on live atm. Again, this is with same gear, although I did switch out WFS for NES since NES is crap on beta and I didn't need to be ArP capped. That brings up the question: Is the removal of ArP what is killing melee dps? With NES I was at ArP softcap, just shy of crit cap, and pushing out over 10k ATP. Also, with the removal of FAP from weapons, I was over 3k less ATP than on live. Sorry for the ramblings, kinda came to a few conclusions while writing this:

ArP removal as well at removal of FAP leaves kitties close to 60% less damage on beta than live atm.
You are correct. The major reasons for the huge 50 to 65% DPS loss is the removal of FAP ( Feral bonus AP from weapons) and the ArP changes.

From what is posted the changes are supposed to go live in the 4.0.1 patch which is thought to be tomorrow. That means Blizz will allow kitties to be broken on live servers. No more ICC as feral DPS. Not even sure if we could do Ulduar.

Many of the posters were theri usual obnoxius self and said they stopped reading or said it's PTR etc. Well this is serious because in my 4 years of playing WOW never has a class been this messed up (50% up to 65% DPS nerf) with a patch.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883687 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:43:25 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883417 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883417 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:18:35 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883382 said by blackthought:

Wow Player: This game is cake, there is no challenge blizzard you suck

Blizzard: Ok HERE, we've changed everything have fun re-learning

Wow player: QQ, QQ, QQ

?

Take it for what it's worth, A NEW GAME EXPERIENCE.

I'm looking forward to having to relearn priorities and rotations and such.
Wow last time I was hearing about a New Game Experience it was from SOE when they completely change Star Wars Galaxies and look how well that turned out. It's why I play WOW by the way.
I'm really glad that you are looking forward to relearning and such. However, if I want a new game I'll go by a new game. I don't think just relearning your rotation is gonna bring back 50-60% of your dps. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883382 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:10:33 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883279
5 CP FB w/ SR was critting for about 6.2k (this is with the glyph that removes additional damage for energy glyph)

Mangle with SR was hitting for 3.3 avg.

I did not have recount going, but unless the new ability that allows us to double attack on melee increases our damage significantly, the numbers just won't do. Right now I would saw that kitties are down about 60% in beta than what they would be on live atm. Again, this is with same gear, although I did switch out WFS for NES since NES is crap on beta and I didn't need to be ArP capped. That brings up the question: Is the removal of ArP what is killing melee dps? With NES I was at ArP softcap, just shy of crit cap, and pushing out over 10k ATP. Also, with the removal of FAP from weapons, I was over 3k less ATP than on live. Sorry for the ramblings, kinda came to a few conclusions while writing this:

ArP removal as well at removal of FAP leaves kitties close to 60% less damage on beta than live atm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883279 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 08:38:52 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883212 said by Draakas:

arent they taking away stunlocks from rogues?!?!
did these even exist?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883212 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 08:05:52 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883208 said by Phantasee:

I blame Arena. (and Mudkipz)
I love Arena. (but not Mudkipz)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883208 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 08:04:50 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883206 said by Goodmongo :

Come patch all feral kitties will be no more. The class is broken plain and simple. DPS has been cut in HALF. Now I know Blizz will most likely make changes as this is just terrible right now. However, I don't think there will be any feral kitties raiding till they do.

So for the dual spec I guess it will be bear (which is still decent, not great but decent) and boomkin. Feral healing is almost as bad as kitty dps right now.

On many sites myself and others complained and we were always told it's just beat and that they will get to it. And more then once the blue posts said that in the near future they will be reviewing it. All of that proved to be BS. There is not another class that got a 50% nerf to dps. Such a shame.
i stopped reading when you said the exact words "the class is broken". heres to hoping your alliance and on my server.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24883206 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 08:04:05 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24877454 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24877454 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 11:42:08 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24877323 said by guyver01:

So... instead of omgpewpewlazers ... you now have to relearn to play your class?

cry me a river.

:uhh:
It's not relearning to play my class. Even over at EJ it is plain and clear that the numbers just aren't there. I know that Blizz will eventually reset the numbers and balance them. But for right now when the patch hits ICC is out for any kitties.

That same feral druid cat that did 14K dps on Saur or Fester will be lucky to hit 5 or 6K dps. So why in the world would a raid leader even take him?

But then again I think every melee DPS got nerfed so ICC will be out for most of them also.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24877323 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 11:06:27 EDT Re: The Death of the Cat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24877329
The only thing that I am seeing that makes a difference now, is (last I looked) that there aren't any talents to reduce the energy cost of shred. (going verify current energy costs). Everything else is just a coefficient adjustment. Plus the Blood in the Water talent (formerly Nom Nom Nom) will be absolutely amazing once the numbers are fixed.

Quick note: the 264 idol of the crying moon turns into a craptastic stat stick as soon as the new stat changes take effect.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-The-Death-of-the-Cat-24877329 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 10:59:51 EDT